How much hype you think there is for WotlK classic?

[Kralljin]

thats not really true tho,, theres multiple other fights where 1 person can wipe the raid...

The only fight in Naxx where one person could technically wipe the raid is Razuvious, but even there you can cheese the whole thing if the tanks use their defensives correctly, you just gotta rotate defensives for the unbalancing strike.

Patchwerk - nope
Grobbulus - nope
Gluth - nope (even if someone griefs drags zombies to Gluth, it will not cause a wipe, just prolong the encounter)
Thaddius - nope (stupid people just die here, you only run into issues if a sizeable portion of your raid cannot handle the polarities)
Anub'rekhan - nope
Faerlina - nope
Maexxna - nope
Noth - nope
Heigan - nope
Loatheb - nope
Gothik - nope
4 HM - nope
Sapphiron - nope
KT - nope (worst thing that can happen, Melee camps chain Frostblast and die, but that also just prolongs the encounter, not instantly wipe you)

Sartharion - nope (unless your tanks decided to turn the boss towards the raid while the breathes - but that's a low bar considering that could also happen on virtually any dragon boss in Classic)
Malygos - see above

It is frankly unlikely that the mistake of one person can spiral into a wipe in T7.

[gutnbrg]

The only fight in Naxx where one person could technically wipe the raid is Razuvious, but even there you can cheese the whole thing if the tanks use their defensives correctly, you just gotta rotate defensives for the unbalancing strike.

Patchwerk - nope
Grobbulus - nope
Gluth - nope (even if someone griefs drags zombies to Gluth, it will not cause a wipe, just prolong the encounter)
Thaddius - nope (stupid people just die here, you only run into issues if a sizeable portion of your raid cannot handle the polarities)
Anub'rekhan - nope
Faerlina - nope
Maexxna - nope
Noth - nope
Heigan - nope
Loatheb - nope
Gothik - nope
4 HM - nope
Sapphiron - nope
KT - nope (worst thing that can happen, Melee camps chain Frostblast and die, but that also just prolongs the encounter, not instantly wipe you)

Sartharion - nope (unless your tanks decided to turn the boss towards the raid while the breathes - but that's a low bar considering that could also happen on virtually any dragon boss in Classic)
Malygos - see above

It is frankly unlikely that the mistake of one person can spiral into a wipe in T7.

i mean im not gonna argue with u bc ur giving excuses for all the fights where somone could kill the raid...u pointed out multiple scenarios where 1 person could wipe the raid....maybe not instanly but still wipe the raid. Youre not willing to admit it tho so goodnight lol

[vian]

Considering wrath was the first time I ever stopped playing, I'm not really interested.

[Kralljin]

.maybe not instanly but still wipe the raid.

Which is the fucking point.

I didn't say "You cannot realistically wipe on these bosses", yes you can if multiple people make multiple mistakes, but that's also true in MC.

[MidnyteTV]

There was a ton of hype for Vanilla Classic and it failed in a matter of 3 months. Mostly due to the fact that most players were ill-prepared for what they were in store for. With Wrath, once 3.3 hits, anybody can roll a toon, do some of the new dungeons, and you're raid ready in a week or two. That's what's gunna keep Wrath classic going.

I don't know how much hype there is because Classic took most of the hype train, TBC classic was barely a buzz. But I know Wrath will have a much longer lifespan due to the content being much better (Ulduar and ICC) and much more replayable. It's also much easier to get into.

[voidillusion]

If failed? In 3 months? I missed the memo on that i guess....

[Northern Goblin]

The only fight in Naxx where one person could technically wipe the raid is Razuvious

If we're going into all scenarios, you can also murder your tank at Gluth.

Depends which version of Hysteria we get.

[Kralljin]

If we're going into all scenarios, you can also murder your tank at Gluth.

Depends which version of Hysteria we get.

I can also say that about almost any boss where a pally decides to throw BoP on a tank and said boss starts to hack itself through the raid.
There is a difference between "I am too imcompetent to play a given mechanic" and what is frankly sabotage.

Disregarding that you can Battle Rez the tank and another tank takes over meanwhile, which can done after the someone screws up.

[Northern Goblin]

I can also say that about almost any boss where a pally decides to throw BoP on a tank and said boss starts to hack itself through the raid.
There is a difference between "I am too imcompetent to play a given mechanic" and what is frankly sabotage.

Disregarding that you can Battle Rez the tank and another tank takes over meanwhile, which can done after the someone screws up.

It's a unique situation where the raid is all at 1hp, so by the time someone reacts, most of you are dead.

[Kralljin]

It's a unique situation where the raid is all at 1hp, so by the time someone reacts, most of you are dead.

Raid doesn't go to 1hp, you go to 5% HP and Hysteria does 1% of your Max Hp every second, if your main tank doesn't receive any healing within 5 seconds while he's tanking the boss and sits at 5%, you play at the kind of skill level where frankly Karazhan might be a wall to you.

Even, that still doesn't stop the 2nd tank from taking over and you battle rezzing the tank that died, after all, taunt immunity isn't a thing in Wotlk.

And disregarding that, putting Hysteria on the MT is sabotage, because why would give a buff that increases Physical damage to your tank?
If threat is the reason, then oh boy, you must be really desperate when your tank still struggles with threat ~a minute into the fight (because Decimate isn't cast on pull).
And in Wotlk, threat is far less of an issue in TBC.

[ifrah]

What's even the stuff about wiping in naxx? Completely irrelevant in any meaningful context as even mid-tier guilds cleared it as soon as they got a somewhat reasonable raid comp formed up.
Which brings to the problem I see with WotLK from PvE perspective, even it's a tough call between that and TBC on my "had most fun" score. The raid content aside from Ulduar is lackluster. Would still expect it's going to be somewhat similar to what TBC is now, but will see. Or I probably won't, but whoever enjoys it, good for them. If for nothing else, Ulduar was quite epic in the progress stage. Farming got me nauseous after all those hours spent there, but yeah, it was a nice one.
Unpopular(?) opinion, ICC is vastly overrated. Maybe I was tired and bored by then, but aside from few encounters, it was not much, and even the atmosphere felt a bit dull.

[Northern Goblin]

What's even the stuff about wiping in naxx? Completely irrelevant in any meaningful context as even mid-tier guilds cleared it as soon as they got a somewhat reasonable raid comp formed up.

He was claiming how clicking cubes at Magtheridon is more dangerous than anything in the first tier of Wrath in terms of one person being able to wipe a raid, as if people haven't missed their assignments and raids have just compensated, covered and survived from it regardless.

[Kralljin]

and raids have just compensated, covered and survived from it regardless.

If you think you can recover from a full Blast Nova channel, you're just showing that you haven't played TBC.

Blast Nova does like 13k+ if fully channeled, when people walk around 7-9k HP in T4 gear, you're not going to outheal this on even half of your raid.
Again, like with your hypothetical Gluth scenario, math proves you wrong, which is just so fucking stupid to even argue about something that you can just look up.

The only scenario where this is possible is when the Mag is about to die anyway and Pallies bubble up and finish him, but that's again, a freaking low bar.

[oplawlz]

There was a ton of hype for Vanilla Classic and it failed in a matter of 3 months. Mostly due to the fact that most players were ill-prepared for what they were in store for. With Wrath, once 3.3 hits, anybody can roll a toon, do some of the new dungeons, and you're raid ready in a week or two. That's what's gunna keep Wrath classic going.

ROFL, it didn't fail - it was always a niche server type for people who preferred that style of gameplay. It got hyped way beyond what it should for people who were never actually the target audience and the population corrected itself once they realized what they were in for.

[Northern Goblin]

If you think you can recover from a full Blast Nova channel, you're just showing that you haven't played TBC.

I said you can recover from someone failing to click, which usually involves someone else doing it reactively.

The rest of your argument at this point is moot.

[Kralljin]

I said you can recover from someone failing to click, which usually involves someone else doing it reactively.

Which requires communication and reaction from other people.

If you start to realize when he's channeling Blast Nova that someone is missing, it's pretty much too late because the pushback from Blast Nova ticks will finish the channel for them from the other four.

It's simply a very massive simplification to "well, someone else should klick", because normally people don't stay near the cubes and thus it requires additional time until someone realizes which Cube is missing, reacts and klicks, which is simply time you don't have when Mag starts channeling and the error becomes apparant.

The rest of your argument at this point is moot.

Ah yes, math is moot.

[MidnyteTV]

ROFL, it didn't fail - it was always a niche server type for people who preferred that style of gameplay. It got hyped way beyond what it should for people who were never actually the target audience and the population corrected itself once they realized what they were in for.

It was a niche, but it was overblown on Youtube and Twitch by streamers who lied to their fanbase.

[Northern Goblin]

Which requires communication and reaction from other people.

If you start to realize when he's channeling Blast Nova that someone is missing, it's pretty much too late because the pushback from Blast Nova ticks will finish the channel for them from the other four.

It's simply a very massive simplification to "well, someone else should klick", because normally people don't stay near the cubes and thus it requires additional time until someone realizes which Cube is missing, reacts and klicks, which is simply time you don't have when Mag starts channeling and the error becomes apparant.

You mean to tell me you go into Magtheridon during progression and have backups and coordination?

That's not the fight being difficult, that's more of a you problem. That's just bad players, probably end up with Razuvious wipes for the same reason.

So no, the fight isn't harder than T7 content, and it's not one person wiping the raid, it's poor play.

Glad we got to the bottom of that.

[Kralljin]

You mean to tell me you go into Magtheridon during progression and have backups and coordination?

Pretty much any group I've been in pre nerf has set up backups, because:
(1) You had to rotate 10-15 people (depending on your dps) to klicks, so not just *any* person could be backup without causing a knock on effect that requires further coordination
(2) People sometimes could get knocked too far away from their cube (because the Quake sometimes gets followed up by a Blast Nova) and thus you need backup
(3) People get knocked in front of Magtheridon and kills them with a cleave right after knockback finishes
(4) Assigned person just plainly DC's

That's just bad players, probably end up with Razuvious wipes for the same reason.

None of the reasons above are related to skill at all, they're just random shit that happens, then you simply need a backup in order to not get blasted.

Genuine question, did you actually play TBC during the first phase?
Not that this a high bar but virtually any of this highly likely happened to anybody that did actually raid during phase one of TBCC.

[Northern Goblin]

(3) People get knocked in front of Magtheridon and kills them with a cleave right

Cleave cannot happen immediately after knockback, there is always enough time to move.

Also quake should never knock you far away enough that you can't be running against it and make it back to your platform before he finishes the windup. Those cubes can be clicked from a decent range.

Genuine question, did you actually play TBC during the first phase?
Not that this a high bar but virtually any of this highly likely happened to anybody that did actually raid during phase one of TBCC.

Yes. Cleared content first week.

This never happened with us, it didn't really happen in retail TBC either, because we put failsafes in to ensure we could cover it.

This is why the whole argument that Wrath is somehow bad because outside of Sarth3d the opening tier is easy is garbage, because Tier 4 content was an absolute walkover and somehow that doesn't matter.

Opening tier normal mode has always been easy, the difference is at least Wrath stays challenging, unlike the mountain of 14/14 week one clears we saw last week.