Equality

[Rhelyo]

As i seen a lot of people want Sylvanas head on a spike for what she has done in Teldrassil and as a horde i do agree she might deserve it.
But the horde these past expansion lost great names like Garrosh,Voljin and Rasthakan(even though we knew him for one expansion).Now most likely we will lose Sylvanas either by being killed or banished never to be heard of.Thrall left the horde and started agriculture.
The Horde are pretty much weakened.Except Varian i do not recall the Alliance ever losing important figures.

Why are the Horde always written as the "bad guys"?

[Dakhath]

As i seen a lot of people want Sylvanas head on a spike for what she has done in Teldrassil and as a horde i do agree she might deserve it.
But the horde these past expansion lost great names like Garrosh,Voljin and Rasthakan(even though we knew him for one expansion).Now most likely we will lose Sylvanas either by being killed or banished never to be heard of.Thrall left the horde and started agriculture.
The Horde are pretty much weakened.Except Varian i do not recall the Alliance ever losing important figures.

Why are the Horde always written as the "bad guys"?

Because Blizzard shit the bed for years with the Alliance, failing to make them anything other than Lawful Stupid with zero nuance that the Horde has to be the bad guys if we're going to rehash another faction conflict every 3-4 years.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

As i seen a lot of people want Sylvanas head on a spike for what she has done in Teldrassil and as a horde i do agree she might deserve it.
But the horde these past expansion lost great names like Garrosh,Voljin and Rasthakan(even though we knew him for one expansion).Now most likely we will lose Sylvanas either by being killed or banished never to be heard of.Thrall left the horde and started agriculture.
The Horde are pretty much weakened.Except Varian i do not recall the Alliance ever losing important figures.

Why are the Horde always written as the "bad guys"?

You are conveniently leaving out that Garrosh went into business for himself and became an enemy of both the Alliance and the Horde. Even if it was in the name of the Horde ("True Horde" as he was calling it, his vision of it)... the actual Horde faction rebelled against him. Adding him to the list of "losing important figures" of the Horde is just silly


The Zanadari trolls were not even officially apart of the Horde at the time of Rastakhan's death, so he doesn't really count as an "important figure" in the Horde.

[WowIsDead64]

As i seen a lot of people want Sylvanas head on a spike for what she has done in Teldrassil and as a horde i do agree she might deserve it.
But the horde these past expansion lost great names like Garrosh,Voljin and Rasthakan(even though we knew him for one expansion).Now most likely we will lose Sylvanas either by being killed or banished never to be heard of.Thrall left the horde and started agriculture.
The Horde are pretty much weakened.Except Varian i do not recall the Alliance ever losing important figures.

Why are the Horde always written as the "bad guys"?

It's not Sylvanas, who should be hated, but bad writers, who forced Horde players to serve her and as result be "evil" faction 2.0 back in BFA, despite of being against it.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

It's not Sylvanas, who should be hated, but bad writers, who forced Horde players to serve her and as result be "evil" faction 2.0 back in BFA, despite of being against it.

Technically, you had a choice whether to go a long with her choices or not. Ultimately it didn't change anything.

[Rhelyo]

You are conveniently leaving out that Garrosh went into business for himself and became an enemy of both the Alliance and the Horde. Even if it was in the name of the Horde... the actual Horde faction rebelled against him. Adding him to the list of "losing important figures" of the Horde is just silly


The Zanadari trolls were not even officially apart of the Horde at the time of Rastakhan's death, so he doesn't really count as an "important figure" in the Horde.

At the end of Battle for Azeroth expansion we did took with us some new races like the vulpera,zandalari trolls and others.Rastakhan was the zandalari trolls king so i do think we was an important figure of the Horde.

[shise]

As i seen a lot of people want Sylvanas head on a spike for what she has done in Teldrassil and as a horde i do agree she might deserve it.
But the horde these past expansion lost great names like Garrosh,Voljin and Rasthakan(even though we knew him for one expansion).Now most likely we will lose Sylvanas either by being killed or banished never to be heard of.Thrall left the horde and started agriculture.
The Horde are pretty much weakened.Except Varian i do not recall the Alliance ever losing important figures.

Why are the Horde always written as the "bad guys"?

The Horde broke into Azeroth trying to destroy its inhabitants. Ever since ,plenty of hostilities happened.

Now, I am neutral. I literally love both. I play Alliance on classic TBC and Horde on retail atm.

The Alliance has got its fair share of bad boys too.. remember that Blood elves were on their way to join the Alliance... and so were the undead... the only reason they didn´t, is because the Alliance acted like arses at the time.

[DatToffer]

Why are the Horde always written as the "bad guys"?

Because they are the monsters, so they have to be bad.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

At the end of Battle for Azeroth expansion we did took with us some new races like the vulpera,zandalari trolls and others.Rastakhan was the zandalari trolls king so i do think we was an important figure of the Horde.

Again, Rastakhan died before the Zandalari trolls joined the Horde. He was not a figure in the Horde at all.


His daughter, Talan'ji, became the leader and is still the leader of the Zandalari trolls when they joined the Horde and currently.


Talan'ji is still alive btw.

[Rhelyo]

The Horde broke into Azeroth trying to destroy its inhabitants. Ever since ,plenty of hostilities happened.

Now, I am neutral. I literally love both. I play Alliance on classic TBC and Horde on retail atm.

The Alliance has got its fair share of bad boys too.. remember that Blood elves were on their way to join the Alliance... and so were the undead... the only reason they didn´t, is because the Alliance acted like arses at the time.

What i do not understand is why is it always one of the Horde leaders is going bannanas and gets his head chopped and Alliance are always seen as saints? As a horde i do hope we get a Alliance centered expansion for once.

[EbaumsTipster]

Back in the day it was socially acceptable to have a “villain” faction, but even then the idea with the Horde was that they were more rough than they were villainous (besides the Forsaken) Thrall is testament.

Modern Blizz pulled the plug on Horde being bad at all because they don’t see the American public as being able to handle it.

[Rhelyo]

As for Garrosh he wasnt always bad. We know him since Nagrand as a child back in TBC.Or back in Wrath. He went bad because Blizzard decided his story progression.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Back in the day it was socially acceptable to have a “villain” faction, but even then the idea with the Horde was that they were more rough than they were villainous (besides the Forsaken) Thrall is testament.

Modern Blizz pulled the plug on Horde being bad at all because they don’t see the American public as being able to handle it.

I think what OP is trying to get at is, it has been previously Horde characters (in leadership positions nonetheless) that have turned "evil" and became primary villains/antagonists and thus the Horde has lost them as characters due to the story being written that way.

[Rhelyo]

I think what OP is trying to get at is, it has been previously Horde characters (in leadership positions nonetheless) that have turned "evil" and became primary villains/antagonists and thus the Horde has lost them as characters due to the story being written that way.

Exactly what i meant

[KOUNTERPARTS]

As for Garrosh he wasnt always bad. We know him since Nagrand as a child back in TBC.Or back in Wrath. He went bad because Blizzard decided his story progression.

Exactly, and I agree. I was not a fan (and still not a fan) of him becoming a villain either.

[Candlewick]

Because they are the monsters, so they have to be bad.

Because the horde are genuinely filled with evil races but players couldn't accept that so they retconed the shit out them?

Trolls ate people and killed and tortured people in rituals fucking constantly, forsaken lobotomized people into brain dead slaves for shits and giggles alongside endless experimentation to develop a plague to end all life. Orcs love killing civilians so much they keep gulping down demon blood 3-4 times now depending on if you count wod so they can do it some more then beg for mercy so they get a chance to do it again later after they lose. Tauren have always been depicted as spineless cowards who bend to whoever threatens them with violence the most. Blood elves are the in game crack addicts with nightborne being meth addicts. Goblins are goblins they remain more or less identical in their faults across all iterations of western media.

So there you have it. The Horde has always been the evil faction. It's only in recent times when they whitewashed all of the in game races cultures to being very slight variations on western morality that horde become rainbow colored humans. You are playing the villains its just everyone currently is trying to forget that because even in a fantasy world people have weird hangups and have to make everything the same.

[Rhelyo]

Because the horde are genuinely filled with evil races but players couldn't accept that so they retconed the shit out them?

Trolls ate people and killed and tortured people in rituals fucking constantly, forsaken lobotomized people into brain dead slaves for shits and giggles alongside endless experimentation to develop a plague to end all life. Orcs love killing civilians so much they keep gulping down demon blood 3-4 times now depending on if you count wod so they can do it some more then beg for mercy so they get a chance to do it again later after they lose. Tauren have always been depicted as spineless cowards who bend to whoever threatens them with violence the most. Blood elves are the in game crack addicts with nightborne being meth addicts. Goblins are goblins they remain more or less identical in their faults across all iterations of western media.

So there you have it. The Horde has always been the evil faction. It's only in recent times when they whitewashed all of the in game races cultures to being very slight variations on western morality that horde become rainbow colored humans. You are playing the villains its just everyone currently is trying to forget that because even in a fantasy world people have weird hangups and have to make everything the same.

Then perhaps they should have kept that storyline like the horde vs alliance war which probably was better.Nowadays their philosophy is horde and alliance band together to defeat another threat.As i saw some videos of them they even consider cross faction raids or battlegrounds.

[Candlewick]

Then perhaps they should have kept that storyline like the horde vs alliance war which probably was better.Nowadays their philosophy is horde and alliance band together to defeat another threat.As i saw some videos of them they even consider cross faction raids or battlegrounds.

They should of had the alliance conquer and either subjugate the orcs or wipe them out entirely alongside the forsaken. It never made lore sense why those two races were allowed to exist. It honestly didnt make sense to not kill jaina for betraying admiral proudmoore since to this very day he was proven right about the orcs. It's why they tried so desperately to keep the war story going up until mop and why I think they went with the iron horde. Once they realized players can't just roll an evil character and instead try to make the fucking cannibals lawful good constantly they just threw their hands up and retconed it.

I think garrosh was the last orc that acted like an actual orc. Trolls it was ZA and ZG. Forsaken never really got anyone who acted like a proper forsaken who was an actual lore figure since... that one undead at wrathgates?

Instead they just quietly made all the more characters into different colored humans and it annoys me to this day. Blood elves remain the most faithful to their origins but that is mostly from them perfectly just being human nobles to start with.

[Makabreska]

Because Blizzard shit the bed for years with the Alliance, failing to make them anything other than Lawful Stupid with zero nuance that the Horde has to be the bad guys if we're going to rehash another faction conflict every 3-4 years.

Ye, I don't consider making a faction bland as "shitting the bed", when we have a second Horde Warchief as a raid boss. Making a faction the cause of main problems in three different expansions is real shitting the bed here.

[DatToffer]

Because the horde are genuinely filled with evil races but players couldn't accept that so they retconed the shit out them?

Trolls ate people and killed and tortured people in rituals fucking constantly, forsaken lobotomized people into brain dead slaves for shits and giggles alongside endless experimentation to develop a plague to end all life. Orcs love killing civilians so much they keep gulping down demon blood 3-4 times now depending on if you count wod so they can do it some more then beg for mercy so they get a chance to do it again later after they lose. Tauren have always been depicted as spineless cowards who bend to whoever threatens them with violence the most. Blood elves are the in game crack addicts with nightborne being meth addicts. Goblins are goblins they remain more or less identical in their faults across all iterations of western media.

So there you have it. The Horde has always been the evil faction. It's only in recent times when they whitewashed all of the in game races cultures to being very slight variations on western morality that horde become rainbow colored humans. You are playing the villains its just everyone currently is trying to forget that because even in a fantasy world people have weird hangups and have to make everything the same.

So basically what I said but with a ridiculous bitterness. My dude, you even managed to shit on the tauren who literally did nothing wrong EVER (well except that one time they accidentally released an elemental princess which led to the creation of the centaurs, but eh)

Yes. The Horde races were mostly evil. And it's normal, we were basically playing the monsters from D&D. But War3 and vanilla showed us they could be more, they could have a civilization, a culture and history and even reasons to hate and fight other races. Trolls hatred against the elves is completely understandable, same as the bad blood between human and orcs or the undead and the living.

So yeah. It's cool to play the evil monsters, but if you make the effort to get them out of their old archetype, you should put an equal effort to make them get back to it. And BFA was pretty lazy on that.