No, for the casual player base the vault system is a horrible design.
No, for the casual player base the vault system is a horrible design.
If it takes an hour to clear a mythic plus gear is the least of your worries, and you only need to do the max if you want more chances at loot so you dont need to do 10 m+ each week or clear the raid.
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Its not it rewards you for the current level of content you are doing so if you are not skilled you dont get the highest rewards, do you want to be rewarded max level items and not do at least some work obtaining them.
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I feel the only “negative” with this is every keystone under +15 is going to be dead.
Why would anyone bother with lower?
Especially since mythic+ isn’t designed with brick wall bosses.
I guess maybe that is ok? I don’t know. It seems like it makes the already massively most easy source of 252 gear even easier.
Just having a single choice between item X or Y is better than any chest we ever had objectively.
While this is true, time commitment on progress raiding is waaaaaaaay longer than the one needed for a +15, You can learn how to do any key in max 4-5 runs (except for high keys that are not needed for vault), while every raid tier you will be sitting at hundreds (if not thousands) of pulls before the raid is in an state that you can faceroll it like you do with 15s.
How is this a Vault problem? When Legion was in the NH patch (master loot was still a thing and we didn't had raid vault), my guild did 22 reclears and the caster trinket from anomaly never dropped, even with bonus rolls we got ONE (we were running about 5 casters) Thats 4 items + 5 bonus rolls every week for 22 weeks = 198 chances for the trinket to appear, and it dropped once. This has nothing to do with the Vault, it is gear RNG wich always existed.
And remember: back then even getting the item wasn't even enough because you ALSO needed the titanforge version (gem too if it was possible to roll on that item). It's much easier now: you just need the drop.
Last edited by Baleful; 2022-01-15 at 08:24 PM.
Titanforging sucked, i'm not sad to see it gone.
The fact m+ vault loot is inferior to raid loot is something you didn't really comment on if i read right, but i don't like it. I want m+ players to feel rewarded even if its the same ilvl, especially since they're capped at once a week whereas raiders have multiple bosses, meaning mythic raiders get it much faster. I also feel like it gives m+ pushers who are also mythic raiders an advantage that doesn't feel great over m+ pushers who don't raid, whereas if it was like in Legion/BFA mythic raiders who wanted to push m+ could just use m+ loot.
Admittedly, ussualy some raid pieces are great for m+ regardless of ilevel due to specific weapons or trinkets, but changing that would require m+ specific scaling which might be more trouble then its worth.
Regular end-of-run rewards being nerfed to below heroic ilvl in SL kinda makes sense. Without it heroic raiding loot is kinda dead in the water as m+ loot is so much easier to aquire, and with heroic raid loot being capped to weekly boss kills, end of run chests are still a good way to gear faster, or to get gear if you dont wanna raid.
If your biggest issue is wanting Titanforging back so you could run m+ endlessly for a tiny upgrade, i think you're in a minority who enjoyed that, and truthfully no offense but i can't say i support your wishes.
Yes, vastly superior to Seals. Greater choice and rewards each type of endgame content.
Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.
I'm not really sure that's true since the only people who run them now are people who don't care, but even if it was true... why would it matter? If people really don't want to do those key ranges, then what is the harm in them not being done? They don't have intrinsic value or need to exist just for the sake of existing.
My army of alts that does one key per week LOVES the vault.
"We must make our choice. We may have democracy, or we may have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."
-Louis Brandeis
I might get some flak for being blunt about it but here goes. They are firebreaks in the system. A 11 and a 15 are not really drastically different. It is to try and brick a players key who got lucky with a strong group to prevent pugs from brute forcing 15s for loot. It is a time waster and a way to deter people taking two hours to force a 15 for mythic loot.
I personally no longer see the point in keeping that system around as boosters (the two groups I am a part of sell roughly 4000 sales a week containing 1-4 runs most commonly) are so rampant that the system isn't working as intended anymore.
A more elegant system would be to actually use normal, heroic, mythic as 5+, 10+,15+ respectively for loot then addon the plus system afterwards for cosmetic rewards much like CM mode used to be.
I’ve thought about this as well, and was wondering if maybe they should shrink the key levels (increase the scaling)
+2 - 1st affix (fort/tyrannical)
+3 - 2nd affix
+4 - 3rd affix
+5 - 4th affix
+6 - max reward
Adjust the scaling so a +6 is the same(ish) to a +15 now.
Less stratification of the playerbase, and makes each key level feel a lot different from the others (except maybe the last one).
I like having more than a single choice each week, and I also like getting a weekly chest from raiding and not having to run M+ at all (not a fan of rushing and timers). I think the way it's designed is a bit convoluted though. It could be simpler and more intuitive.
I support removing vault and not bringing back titanforging. Mythic raiding is harder then anything M+ and requires more, you should not be getting gear from a M+ that is equal to or anywhere near mythic raiding. I understand that mythic raiding gear could also titanforge but just no. People will just do heroic for Titanforged gear and never step foot in mythic raiding at that point. Titanforge system was removed for a reason, needs to stay that way but yes vault needs to GTFO and stay away forever.
vault is a trash design that turns game into another arbitrary rng checklist, its literally weekly bingo lottery where instead of getting loot from content you fill the bars to get tickets. And worst part of it, it creates huge gaps between unlucky and lucky players at the start of patch.