No positive development for the Night Elves at all...

[ethriel]

This is my first post on this website, so let's see how it goes. (Also some 9.2 spoilers included I guess)

I've had huge issues with how the Night Elves were treated in BfA and Shadowlands. When the Night Elves were pretty much wiped out in BfA and had their zones either taken or destroyed by the Horde or Sylvanas, we were promised that we’d get a resolution for Teldrassil in Shadowlands because we pretty much got ignored for the entirety of BfA after that.

During Blizzcon, we found out that the Night Elf Souls were in the maw the entire time. A terrible fate after being victims of genocide, but Blizzard would surely let us free them? Right? That’s what some people assumed (and I hoped for) during beta, but that’s not what happened.
Instead, the Night Elf Souls were mostly obliterated after we freed a very small fraction of them (We freed 100 when several thousands died).
Then Tyrande finally had the chance to achieve justice for Teldrassil… but Elune decided that the victims must not pursue justice and took the powers away from Tyrande. Sylvanas won the fight. Yea… I wonder where that “victims mustn’t pursue justice” story came from...
The writers then made Tyrande choose between renewal and renewal, and renewal and justice are apparently mutually exclusive so Tyrande had to forgive Sylvanas and the Night Elves didn’t get any renewal.

Sylvanas is now allowed to search for Nathanos in the maw after, getting everything she ever wanted while the Night Elf Souls are obliterated in the maw once and for all.
The Horde is also still occupying party Night Elf lands and actively killing them in Ashenvale. Furthermore, the Night Elves’ are mentioned to be so few in numbers that they basically can’t do anything on Azeroth anymore. They can’t even guard their zones anymore so that the Horde can just freely walk around in it and preach about how the Night Elves are far too few to even do anything. (Also stated in an interview that they are nearly wiped out).

The only hope for the Night Elves was to get actual renewal (that we were promised!) and have the souls of their people rescued from the maw and revived, but instead Blizzard decided to have the Night Elf Souls obliterated in the maw...
The Night Elves’ Goddess forced her children to forgive those that killed them, tortured them, and obliterated their souls.

And that’s the resolution for Teldrassil. The end of the Night Elves, that what was promised to make up for BfA only doubled down on the misery of the Night Elves and ensured that there is no way that they can ever recover. In Exploring Kalimdor it is also mentioned that the Night Elves can never heal.

I have no reason to believe that the writing team doesn't have a personal vendetta against the Night Elves at this point...

[Venziir]

Yay just what we needed, another account making elf threads... Yaaaaay...

[Varodoc]

The Blizzard team has always been heavily biased towards the Horde. This is nothing new.

I don't think there has ever been a more Horde-biased expansion than BfA, where Sylvanas and the Horde got completely white-washed of everything and got away with actual genocide (once again) scots-free. On top of that, the Horde even got a new Council instead of a despotic Warchief, meaning that they came out of the war with a new leadership and heading into a new age.

We can only hope that Blizzard will stop being so heavily biased towards the Horde with the new changes happening around the company. They can't exterminate another Alliance race, can they? After all the massive lawsuits, maybe they should avoid showing genocide again in their stories for some time.

[Synvanas]

The Blizzard team has always been heavily biased towards the Horde. This is nothing new.

I don't think there has ever been a more Horde-biased expansion than BfA, where Sylvanas and the Horde got completely white-washed of everything and got away with actual genocide (once again) scots-free. On top of that, the Horde even got a new Council instead of a despotic Warchief, meaning that they came out of the war with a new leadership and heading into a new age.

We can only hope that Blizzard will stop being so heavily biased towards the Horde with the new changes happening around the company. They can't exterminate another Alliance race, can they? After all the massive lawsuits, maybe they should avoid showing genocide again in their stories for some time.

It's the other way around, actually....as Michelle Morrow (the voice of your precious Alleria in Hearthstone) and Red Shirt Guy recently confirmed on Twitter, the story of Warchief Sylvanas was completely ruined by Afrasiabi (especially with the burn of Teldrassil great idea) on PURPOSE because of his revenge, in order to make people hate her a lot just because she was a strong female character leader. Likely while in the same time inflicing genocide on the Night Elves because they were a strong mathriarcal race as well. This kind of decision and writing were likely all related to the Cosby Suite incident, too.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheRedShi...64045787078660


https://mobile.twitter.com/michelemo...17673097330688


so as you can read, Sylvanas (and so, by proxy the Horde) were completely ruined and screwed over on purpose by the devs with this kind of writing, especially "thanks" to the SIN of Teldrassil that in the same time ruined Tyrande and the Night Elves as a mathriarcal race too... so as you can see Sylvanas as a character and the Horde too are clear victims of the revenge of the devs because of this reason, alongside the Night Elves too...

as for the Horde Council, yes, but it will likely be only good in times of peace, in times of war a Warchief will likely have to return to rule (at least temporarily) otherwise I think the Council will be too much "dispersive" in their decisions in a possible future faction war and so the Alliance will almost certainly strike first because of the passivity of the Horde leaders and gain the advantage...

[Varodoc]

It's the other way around, actually....as Michelle Morrow (the voice of your precious Alleria in Hearthstone) and Red Shirt Guy recently confirmed on Twitter, the story of Warchief Sylvanas was completely ruined by Afrasiabi (especially with the burn of Teldrassil great idea) on PURPOSE because of his revenge, in order to make people hate her a lot just because she was a strong female character leader. Likely while in the same time inflicing genocide on the Night Elves because they were a strong mathriarcal race as well. This kind of decision and writing were likely all related to the Cosby Suite incident, too.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheRedShi...64045787078660


https://mobile.twitter.com/michelemo...17673097330688


so as you can read, Sylvanas (and so, by proxy the Horde) were completely ruined and screwed over on purpose by the devs with this kind of writing, especially "thanks" to the SIN of Teldrassil that in the same time ruined Tyrande and the Night Elves as a mathriarcal race too... so as you can see Sylvanas as a character and the Horde too are clear victims of the revenge of the devs because of this reason, alongside the Night Elves too...

as for the Horde Council, yes, but it will likely be only good in times of peace, in times of war a Warchief will likely have to return to rule (at least temporarily) otherwise I think the Council will be too much "dispersive" in their decisions in a possible future faction war and so the Alliance will almost certainly strike first because of the passivity of the Horde leaders and gain the advantage...

???

She literally says in the tweet that she has "no idea" if it was indeed Afrasiabi's idea?

[Synvanas]

Apparently, her source is "trusted" enough for her to come out and reveal it was his fault, though. Or at least to heavily imply it. Regardless it was Afrasiabi specifically or not, the fact that Sylvanas' story in BfA was ruined on purpose for revenge still stands, though, just like the bad writing involving the Horde story and the Kaldorei. Personally I could add the story of Alleria and the Void Elves as I don't really like the way there are written since the beginning of their "exile" from Quel'thalas, too, as you already know.

More evidence about this from Taliesin and Evitel:

https://mobile.twitter.com/TaliesinE...90094860607488

[Wonderment2]

The fact a Night Elf genicide is something of hanging plot thread is a little strange....

[TheRevenantHero]

It's the other way around, actually....as Michelle Morrow (the voice of your precious Alleria in Hearthstone) and Red Shirt Guy recently confirmed on Twitter, the story of Warchief Sylvanas was completely ruined by Afrasiabi (especially with the burn of Teldrassil great idea) on PURPOSE because of his revenge, in order to make people hate her a lot just because she was a strong female character leader. Likely while in the same time inflicing genocide on the Night Elves because they were a strong mathriarcal race as well. This kind of decision and writing were likely all related to the Cosby Suite incident, too.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheRedShi...64045787078660


https://mobile.twitter.com/michelemo...17673097330688


so as you can read, Sylvanas (and so, by proxy the Horde) were completely ruined and screwed over on purpose by the devs with this kind of writing, especially "thanks" to the SIN of Teldrassil that in the same time ruined Tyrande and the Night Elves as a mathriarcal race too... so as you can see Sylvanas as a character and the Horde too are clear victims of the revenge of the devs because of this reason, alongside the Night Elves too...

as for the Horde Council, yes, but it will likely be only good in times of peace, in times of war a Warchief will likely have to return to rule (at least temporarily) otherwise I think the Council will be too much "dispersive" in their decisions in a possible future faction war and so the Alliance will almost certainly strike first because of the passivity of the Horde leaders and gain the advantage...

Ya know....there was a time in the past where I would have called this bullshit. But now after seeing all the other horrendous story decisions made since the release of BfA? I absolutely believe this is 100% legit.

[Syegfryed]

Every day an elf thread in this forum to talk about the same thing, there isn't supposed to be a megathread to people talk about this if the subject is always the same?

Like, do you serious think, this only happen to nigh elves? there is literally no positive development for any race since mop, wow changed their design of writing/story to not care about races and factions and only focus on NPCs

[Venziir]

It's the other way around, actually....as Michelle Morrow (the voice of your precious Alleria in Hearthstone) and Red Shirt Guy recently confirmed on Twitter, the story of Warchief Sylvanas was completely ruined by Afrasiabi (especially with the burn of Teldrassil great idea) on PURPOSE because of his revenge, in order to make people hate her a lot just because she was a strong female character leader. Likely while in the same time inflicing genocide on the Night Elves because they were a strong mathriarcal race as well. This kind of decision and writing were likely all related to the Cosby Suite incident, too.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheRedShi...64045787078660


https://mobile.twitter.com/michelemo...17673097330688


so as you can read, Sylvanas (and so, by proxy the Horde) were completely ruined and screwed over on purpose by the devs with this kind of writing, especially "thanks" to the SIN of Teldrassil that in the same time ruined Tyrande and the Night Elves as a mathriarcal race too... so as you can see Sylvanas as a character and the Horde too are clear victims of the revenge of the devs because of this reason, alongside the Night Elves too...

as for the Horde Council, yes, but it will likely be only good in times of peace, in times of war a Warchief will likely have to return to rule (at least temporarily) otherwise I think the Council will be too much "dispersive" in their decisions in a possible future faction war and so the Alliance will almost certainly strike first because of the passivity of the Horde leaders and gain the advantage...

Pardon, but what's this about a vendetta? Is it about the whole lawsuit?

[Dellis0991]

Pretty much every race has been in a constant state of pyrrhic victory. Night elves aren't the only ones to get no development but to be frank the fucking expansion isn't even over and we don't know where all this shit with Sylvanas and Tyrande is headed really so just wait.

[Synvanas]

Pardon, but what's this about a vendetta? Is it about the whole lawsuit?

Yes, but not only that, incidentally the vendetta was also probably about the result of a major disagreement between Afrasiabi and Kosak (who took over for Metzen as Lead Narrative Designer sometime during Cataclysm). In essence, apparently, Afrasiabi didn't like what happened in the past to characters like Varian and Garrosh (especially Garrosh) and the way they were unmercifully "disposed of" by the writing in the story, so he essentially resolved to make Sylvanas taste the same bad medicine of Garrosh as well, eventually...and Sylvanas was indeed one of Kosak's favourite after all...

[Venziir]

Yes, but not only that, incidentally the vendetta was also probably about the result of a major disagreement between Afrasiabi and Kosak (who took over for Metzen as Lead Narrative Designer sometime during Cataclysm). In essence, apparently, Afrasiabi didn't like what happened in the past to characters like Varian and Garrosh (especially Garrosh) and the way they were unmercifully "disposed of" by the writing in the story, so he essentially resolved to make Sylvanas taste the same bad medicine of Garrosh as well, eventually...and Sylvanas was indeed one of Kosak's favourite after all...

Well that's just... So incredibly childish. I believe it though, I've seen how nerdy peeps react when their favourite characters suddenly does something they dislike - it aint pretty.

[Maljinwo]

Yes, but not only that, incidentally the vendetta was also probably about the result of a major disagreement between Afrasiabi and Kosak (who took over for Metzen as Lead Narrative Designer sometime during Cataclysm). In essence, apparently, Afrasiabi didn't like what happened in the past to characters like Varian and Garrosh (especially Garrosh) and the way they were unmercifully "disposed of" by the writing in the story, so he essentially resolved to make Sylvanas taste the same bad medicine of Garrosh as well, eventually...and Sylvanas was indeed one of Kosak's favourite after all...

And you are telling me that the game director and all other writers just let him go through with it?

No one on the entire team said no?

Ok

[Every Pwny]

Yes it's true, no other race has been continually shit on and destroyed like the night elves. Their own genocide didn't even develop in a story for the night elves in BfA, and they got told "she [Tyrande] had her moment where we told some of her story and she got her revenge for the Night Elves. ", when all the warfront resulted in was Tyrande needing to be saved by Malfurion from Nathanos, because Tyrande cannot do anything on her own, and then you get night elves WORKING for their abusers/killers, and we are told that was without mind control. What is the night elves reward for this? Black eyes as a cosmetic option. These are all just continually digs at the night elves out of extreme malice from the writers.

You can see they intended no actual story for the night elves in BfA or even Shadowlands and that writing anything for the night elves is seen as burdensome, as we can see from the very pointless Tyrande subplot, where she is forced to "choose" that she either forgives her abuser/killer of her people, or she dies, a very interesting writing choice coming off the heels of all that has been happening at Blizzard over the years. Then you have NPCs being concerned about Tyrande being mad because of her people's genocide, like Anduin and then even Shandris, they try to make her seem like the crazy one when she is ENTIRELY justified in her anger.

What did Tyrande do in SL so far? She jumped into the portal and disappeared until the max level campaign for the Ardenweld covenant, where the player saves a couple souls while obliterating a bunch more (the amalgamation), then she is gone until 9.1 where she fights Sylvanas to a stale mate until Sylvanas flies away, then Tyrande loses her powers, only to have Elune channel through her later to say she needs to choose renewal or revenge when she no longer has the option for revenge, this is after Elune is shown to be extremely incompetent in that she didn't even know where she was sending the souls of the night elves, that ended up being tortured in the maw.

Why was the genocide of the night elves a story more about Saurfang and him feeling sad rather than the survivors of the horde's genocide? Why has Tyrande's story been such a pointless plot in SL that has accomplished nothing? Why are we more concerned about the feelings of the genocidal maniac Sylvanas and her feelings over any of the survivors of her atrocities? It has always been because killing the night elves was just a plot device they never really intended to bring up again until they had all that backlash over how bad 8.1 was (8.1 would have been much worse as well if it wasn't for the backlash in the PTR), and not even having the night elves show up to fight against Azshara, a huge part of their story forever. They were just killed off for this Sylvanas/Saurfang plot and pretty much forgotten, they were basically out BfA except for 8.1 warfront plot that didn't even impact the story. It's hard to see the night elves writing for the last several expansion, especially in BfA, as anything other than hatred for the race.

[Syegfryed]

Yes it's true, no other race has been continually shit on and destroyed like the night elves.

- Taurens
- Trolls
- Orcs
- undead
- Gnomes
- Dwarves
- worgens
- pandarens


races that got more shit or, are being ignored since their introduction. at least two of those spend years without racial leaders, and other two spend years without their own capital. Night elves still have their leader, they are only dipping their toes in the shit.

[Every Pwny]

races that got more shit or, are being ignored since their introduction. at least two of those spend years without racial leaders, and other two spend years without their own capital. Night elves still have their leader, they are only dipping their toes in the shit.

None of those races have got more shit than night elves who have been the punching bags of playable races since Cataclysm who are in continual need of saving. But as I've already established with you from our last interaction you know very little about the story in general, you didn't even know the night elves had Ashenvale after SoO so it's usually pointless talking about the lore with you.

[Caerule]

The Exploring books make it clear that in the war the Alliance lost
-Teldrassil

And the Horde lost:
-Undercity
-Both Warfronts
-Southshore in Hillsbrad
-The Mor'shan Rampart (the Horde-Barricaded border of the Barrens and Ashenvale)
And the Alliance retain ownership of their keep in Durotar on Orgrimmar's doorstep. Their fortress in the Barrens. And their towered up passage into Stonetalon.
The Horde also lost the leader characters of King Rastakhan, Gallywix, Sylvanas and Saurfang.

So yeah, the Horde's pretty screwed as a result of the war.

Now, that's not to say things don't suck for Night Elves either right now. Blizzard's way of storytelling is crap, and they need a satisfying conclusion. They're not in that bad a shape though. Sure, they lost Teldrassil, but that place only existed for like 16 years in WoW canon. Before that Nordrassil was the heart of their realm.

More importantly though, we can rest assured that even though Blizzard's way of storytelling means we don't get Azeroth development while the story is focused off-world, it seems inevitable that the Night Elves will regain a new capitol. And it's not unlikely that that's already being foreshadowed. Like, the hinted "purpose of the souls of the Night Elves" that's been hinted at, could be becoming wisps and regrowing a new tree. Heck, grow it around the blade of Sargeras and turn Silithus into a new verdant woodland to nourish Azeroth, to also wrap up that story thread.

Point is, things may feel crap right now, that's only because the story is being told so slowly. (Also that Horde Bias is a myth)

[Feanoro]

Oh look, Horde posters whining that a thread exists, instead of:

1) ignoring it
OR
2) starting their own thread
OR
3) posting constructively, like "yeah, Blizz has screwed up my favorite race too, I agree it's crap what they did to yours"


On the "revenge" bit, yes I have no problem believing the writers are petty. Part of why Garrosh seemed almost multiple personalities during his lifetime was disagreements. Metzen wanted to reduce his involvement with WoW for Titan and later Overwatch, as well as developing other IPs more, so he asked for Thrall to ride off into the sunset.

Instead of "Thrall heroically went out to save the world", it was turned into flat out character assassination to explain Garrosh. The retcons utterly dragged the character through the mud and painted him as an idiot. Amazingly, Metzen was pissed about his personal Horde character being trashed, so we get Green Jesus and Garrosh going orc supremacist.
(Part of my dislike for Garrosh is what a purely crap story it was compared to what was being signaled early on in Wrath.)

So no, I have no doubt there was writer pettiness, and it's not terribly hard to see how someone could disguise that motive by wrapping it in rule of cool and getting the writing team sold on it, particularly since there's a history of half-assed story excuses for development decisions, like Cata's revamp of the classic world being explained by Deathwing. T

[Dellis0991]

None of those races have got more shit than night elves who have been the punching bags of playable races since Cataclysm who are in continual need of saving. But as I've already established with you from our last interaction you know very little about the story in general, you didn't even know the night elves had Ashenvale after SoO so it's usually pointless talking about the lore with you.

Technically trolls have been the punching bag of every race since day 1.