New allied race/class speculations

[AngerFork]

For the undead allied race I would love to see something that looks like the Primus. I would actually tempted to reroll/race change if that became true.

A Primus style race would be amazing!

[draugril]

For the undead allied race I would love to see something that looks like the Primus. I would actually tempted to reroll/race change if that became true.

Primus's nose needs the HQ cinematic treatment. I need to see deep into those pores.

[Kelthos]

Apparently on the 9.2.5 PTR there was a quest that was briefly active that involved Night Fae NPC's in the Stormwind embassy and helping Anduin give them a tour of Stormwind, but it was quickly removed. Could that be hints towards covenant allied races or just some dev experimentation that was never meant to be seen on public servers?

https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...82119935737860

(Sorry if this has already been posted/discussed. I went back several pages and didn't see anything so I thought I'd share jic.)

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I'm not moving any goal posts at all.

I said they were unique to Warcraft. That you think they have to be put at the forefront of every expansion in order to be unique is your problem, not mine. I never defined them like that, you did.


I said it was a missed oppurtunity they never got to be playable. I don't care if you think they're too hard to make work.

IDGAF about the technical reasons why it wouldn't realistically work. It's a shame that modern WoW has chosen not to make them playable, and I can freely express that as my opinion. Feel free to disagree. I'd prefer a WoW that had the freedom to explore playable races that aren't solely based on bipeds, that had the freedom to add non-bipedal races or those who may not even conventionally wear clothing/armor.

There are some private servers that add in playable NPC races like Murlocs or Broken Draenei. They're broken as shit, and I would never consider those NPCs being playable a good thing for the game. But I have to say I had a change of heart when I saw it in action. It does look interesting and fun. It looks different. It's nothing like modern WoW, but it doesn't have to be. It's different enough that it could have been a fun concept to play as an unconventional non-bipedal race. WoW was the first MMO to explore fun concepts like 'playing as a skeleton' or 'playing as a werewolf' or 'playing as a giant minotaur'. You just never saw that in any other MMO at the time. There is no other MMO that would be able to explore Naga as a playable race. WoW *could have* done it, but the designers chose not to take on that challenge. A lot of those innovative concepts, like making a playable non-bipedal race, are lacking in modern WoW. And it's a shame.

It's a damned shame.

-edit-



This is the kinda stuff I'm talking about. I think this youtuber breaks down how they could be realistically made playable, and even demonstrates the Legion Naga model parading around as a mock-Alliance or Horde character. This is what I'd like to see. And it's technically possible, it just requires effort.

The one thing that has always bothered me about "but naga would be hard to implement" is the mount animation. You just, coil their tails over the saddle, it's not difficult.

Also plus for naga, you really don't *have* to develop any boot 3D assets, but you can make some sweet "tail plating" out of it.

[Nightshade711]

The one thing that has always bothered me about "but naga would be hard to implement" is the mount animation. You just, coil their tails over the saddle, it's not difficult.

Also plus for naga, you really don't *have* to develop any boot 3D assets, but you can make some sweet "tail plating" out of it.

With mechagnomes blizzard proved that the whole boot asset thing isn’t an issue. They could just make that part not transmoggable

[Triceron]

With mechagnomes blizzard proved that the whole boot asset thing isn’t an issue. They could just make that part not transmoggable

Hell, Trolls and Tauren have already gone without boot options since Vanilla.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

With mechagnomes blizzard proved that the whole boot asset thing isn’t an issue. They could just make that part not transmoggable

Also an option! I just think it would be neat they could grab some of the 3D elements on later boot sets and add them as tail rings/plates.

[melzas]

No more races please, spend all that creative work into even more customisation options for what we have.

As for classes, I'd rather get extra specs (where they make sense rather than give it to everone). No cringy tryhard ideas like warrior healers and monks ranged dps. But if we ever get new class, I only see Tinker as possible option, which would be ok, I guess.

[Nightshade711]

No more races please, spend all that creative work into even more customisation options for what we have.

As for classes, I'd rather get extra specs (where they make sense rather than give it to everone). No cringy tryhard ideas like warrior healers and monks ranged dps. But if we ever get new class, I only see Tinker as possible option, which would be ok, I guess.

We just got more customization options though.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

It has nothing to do with incompetence.

They were NPCs planned for Legion and served their purpose in full. Later on, they would have greenlit the plans to make BFA's story next, and pursue adding 'Allied Races'. Even if some were introduced at the end of Legion, they are all a part of BFA's features and content.

Some were available from the end of Legion, some weren't available till way later in BFA. Having NPC textures shows they originally planned for Nightborne to simply be NPCs. If they planned to have them playable from the start they wouldn't have bothered with the NPC textures step, just like they didn't for Vulpera, who were also a newly introduced NPC.

This is the same thing being pointed out to you regarding Shadowlands races. There are more steps required than simply reusing skeleton and animations. That time and effort is not free, it's meticulously planned into the budget of the expansion it's introduced for. The plans to convert Nightborne into a playable race would have been counted into BFA's budget.

I have my doubts that they would introduce so many Shadowlands NPC races, using the NPC methods, only to later redo all that work to make them playable at the end of expansion. That is redundant work that indicates that they never planned them to be playable in the first place. And I doubt they would budget in playable Shadowlands races for the end of the expansion. If they intended for them to be playable from the start of Shadowlands, they would have built them properly as playable races, and there is no reason to also wait for them to be playable at the end of the expansion. I doubt Shadowlands races are going to be budgetted into 10.0.

Every NPC is set up to be usable in some fashion. You could mod WoW to add Naga that can wear gear, for example. But they have missing animations, and lack proper texture set up for customizations, lack customizations in general, and are not built correctly to support all types of gear in the game. So it's still a whole process to take an NPC and make them an actual Player Race. If they'd planned on these NPCs being player races from the start, they wouldn't have made them as NPCs. It doesn't save any work doing it twice, they would have just set it up properly from the start.

Basically this. Both Vulpera and Mechagnomes were introduced with Player Ready models, they could use gear and were clearly based out of 2 already playable races, Female Goblin and Gnomes.

None of the Shadowlands Races have Player Ready models. The *closest* to it are the Kyrian and Night Fae because their mapping at least allows for loading of gear textures, and while the Night Fae model has attachements for shoulders, neither of them has any armor "geosets", which includes all the gloves, boots and capes that aren't 3D assets.

The male Kyrian model is obviously a reworked female one and it's pretty obvious on their chest, they are just flattened boobs that map very badly with any male chest textures.

They are most certainly not player ready, and it would be pointless to have created NPC versions of what would later be a Player Model, we already saw how badly it went with NB.

At most, my wildest speculation could be they did it on purpose to "throw us off", which would be rather insane. I really can't believe they did all this extra work just to hide their intentions heh.

Also, this is how the Venthyr model mapping looks.



So yeah, even considering to make Venthyr playable would requite the whole Nightborne thing to be done again, which would be INSANE.

[Nightshade711]

Apparently on the 9.2.5 PTR there was a quest that was briefly active that involved Night Fae NPC's in the Stormwind embassy and helping Anduin give them a tour of Stormwind, but it was quickly removed. Could that be hints towards covenant allied races or just some dev experimentation that was never meant to be seen on public servers?

https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...82119935737860

(Sorry if this has already been posted/discussed. I went back several pages and didn't see anything so I thought I'd share jic.)

I haven’t actually seen this yet.

But I personally hope it doesn’t mean we’re getting SL allied races even though I like the premise behind the SL races. (Though they completely missed their potential, especially with the Kyrian)

Kinda defeats the whole purpose of death if people can just come back as one of the SL races and continue whatever they’re doing.

- - - Updated - - -

Basically this. Both Vulpera and Mechagnomes were introduced with Player Ready models, they could use gear and were clearly based out of 2 already playable races, Female Goblin and Gnomes.

None of the Shadowlands Races have Player Ready models. The *closest* to it are the Kyrian and Night Fae because their mapping at least allows for loading of gear textures, and while the Night Fae model has attachements for shoulders, neither of them has any armor "geosets", which includes all the gloves, boots and capes that aren't 3D assets.

The male Kyrian model is obviously a reworked female one and it's pretty obvious on their chest, they are just flattened boobs that map very badly with any male chest textures.

They are most certainly not player ready, and it would be pointless to have created NPC versions of what would later be a Player Model, we already saw how badly it went with NB.

At most, my wildest speculation could be they did it on purpose to "throw us off", which would be rather insane. I really can't believe they did all this extra work just to hide their intentions heh.

Also, this is how the Venthyr model mapping looks.



So yeah, even considering to make Venthyr playable would requite the whole Nightborne thing to be done again, which would be INSANE.

What’s funny enough is that I’m pretty sure that the kyrian models are based entirely off of the Val’kyr skeleton/rig, which are exclusively female.

Though the Guardian of Ancient Kings is the same way, but doesn’t seem to have the same issues… the model is old so maybe it’s just the low poly count. (Has the exact same animations as Val’kyr)

(Also off-topic but it’s weird they didn’t use SL to explain what the guardian of ancient kings actually is)

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

What’s funny enough is that I’m pretty sure that the kyrian models are based entirely off of the Val’kyr skeleton/rig, which are exclusively female.

Though the Guardian of Ancient Kings is the same way, but doesn’t seem to have the same issues… but then again that model is older than dirt so I don’t know.

(Also off-topic but it’s weird they didn’t use SL to explain what the guardian of ancient kings actually is)

Oh actually I have a theory on what the Kyrian model is based on, and it's not the Val'kyr model!

Gimme a few as I try to gather some supporting evidence.

(also you're right about the GoAK hahah)

[Nightshade711]

Oh actually I have a theory on what the Kyrian model is based on, and it's not the Val'kyr model!

Gimme a few as I try to gather some supporting evidence.

(also you're right about the GoAK hahah)

My only evidence that the Kyrian are based off of Vrykul are that they share some animations. (Death, sitground, Ready 1h/2h/2hl for example)

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

My only evidence that the Kyrian are based off of Vrykul are that they share some animations. (Death, sitground, Ready 1h/2h/2hl for example)

It's mostly true! The base model -the geometry- is a remade version of the Val'kyr model with higher geometry, but the animations themselves are strangely different. Like they could have reused them but a lot look either remade, or from somewhere else. Someone had said that they actually borrowed some from the female kul tiran model, but I really can't see beyond a passing resemblance.



There are just so many of the Kyrian animations that are ostensibly unique as far as I am aware, kind of like Venthyr. It's just rather odd to me that they would have remade so many of the Valkyr animations, maybe to account for more bones? Nonetheless, interesting.

[username993720]

Goblins as a whole aren't evil. And, again, all the good drust are dead.


The drust are as alligned to the Alliance as they are to the Horde. Meaning: they're hostile to both, since they're an evil race.


You're wrong.


And in there we'll find the evil drust. Because the good drust are dead. I don't know what's so hard to understand about that.

You know what? I've been thinking about it. Maybe you're right. Maybe the Drust aren't going to be the playable race, but the Vrykul. And the Drust are just a way to introduce the Druid class to the Vrykul playable race. I'm saying this because we have Void Ethereals aligned with the Alliance, but we will most likely get regular Ethereals, as we already have Void elves.

It does matter. It does matter a whole lot when the argument is "Blizzard always sets up things for later and doesn't abandon stories and plot lines".

If that's what you're insisting on, then yes. As long as it doesn't affect the aforementioned characters, i don't care.

And? So what? Again, it can still be just as deadly against a tank, or a building, as a blast of arcane magic or a huge ice spike, as demonstrated way back in Argus.

True. Again, we don't know what Blizzard is planning, or have planned, for the ship. You can't tell them what they should or should've not done with their game. It's their decision. As much as you view it as unreasonable.

The Demonbane grants extra experience when fighting demons. It's not about dealing extra damage.

That's because of balance issues. Remember the Trolls' Beast slaying racial? Yea... that.

Which is literally just a cave. Nothing more, nothing less. It's nowhere near like a military base.

You don't need to when it's a scenario. It's not an expansion nor a patch. The Mag'har didn't have one when we recruited them. It's a grab and go type of case. Argus is already a dead planet. There's nothing to salvage.

Even so.

Wow... didn't know i wish for something i don't want.

If you believe so, then you can demonstrate why it matters and how it matters. So please do so.[/QUOTE]

Because it costs money, time and resources.

It has nothing to do with incompetence.

They were NPCs planned for Legion and served their purpose in full. Later on, they would have greenlit the plans to make BFA's story next, and pursue adding 'Allied Races'. Even if some were introduced at the end of Legion, they are all a part of BFA's features and content.

Some were available from the end of Legion, some weren't available till way later in BFA. Having NPC textures shows they originally planned for Nightborne to simply be NPCs. If they planned to have them playable from the start they wouldn't have bothered with the NPC textures step, just like they didn't for Vulpera, who were also a newly introduced NPC.

This is the same thing being pointed out to you regarding Shadowlands races. There are more steps required than simply reusing skeleton and animations. That time and effort is not free, it's meticulously planned into the budget of the expansion it's introduced for. The plans to convert Nightborne into a playable race would have been counted into BFA's budget.

I have my doubts that they would introduce so many Shadowlands NPC races, using the NPC methods, only to later redo all that work to make them playable at the end of expansion. That is redundant work that indicates that they never planned them to be playable in the first place. And I doubt they would budget in playable Shadowlands races for the end of the expansion. If they intended for them to be playable from the start of Shadowlands, they would have built them properly as playable races, and there is no reason to also wait for them to be playable at the end of the expansion. I doubt Shadowlands races are going to be budgetted into 10.0.

Every NPC is set up to be usable in some fashion. You could mod WoW to add Naga that can wear gear, for example. But they have missing animations, and lack proper texture set up for customizations, lack customizations in general, and are not built correctly to support all types of gear in the game. So it's still a whole process to take an NPC and make them an actual Player Race. If they'd planned on these NPCs being player races from the start, they wouldn't have made them as NPCs. It doesn't save any work doing it twice, they would have just set it up properly from the start.

You do realize they plan expansions ahead of time, right? It's not an on-the-spot decision. They knew they were going to make them playable before adding them. Same as with Highmountain and Lightforged, who were also introduced as NPCs and didn't require tweaking. Even the Vulpera required some modification, especially in the tail area. They first add them as NPC races because they obviously don't want to spoil them becoming playable. Why would they add the covenant races with males and females, high definition textures, complex animations and several customization options but not apply it to others?
It's the same with Kul Tirans, who had only 2 faces and 2 hairstyles before becoming playable and didn't appear in the gameplay trailer.

For the undead allied race I would love to see something that looks like the Primus. I would actually tempted to reroll/race change if that became true.

You're most likely getting Maldraxxus Gladiators.

Apparently on the 9.2.5 PTR there was a quest that was briefly active that involved Night Fae NPC's in the Stormwind embassy and helping Anduin give them a tour of Stormwind, but it was quickly removed. Could that be hints towards covenant allied races or just some dev experimentation that was never meant to be seen on public servers?

https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...82119935737860

(Sorry if this has already been posted/discussed. I went back several pages and didn't see anything so I thought I'd share jic.)

Told you so. Everyone is so skeptic these days...

Basically this. Both Vulpera and Mechagnomes were introduced with Player Ready models, they could use gear and were clearly based out of 2 already playable races, Female Goblin and Gnomes.

None of the Shadowlands Races have Player Ready models. The *closest* to it are the Kyrian and Night Fae because their mapping at least allows for loading of gear textures, and while the Night Fae model has attachements for shoulders, neither of them has any armor "geosets", which includes all the gloves, boots and capes that aren't 3D assets.

The male Kyrian model is obviously a reworked female one and it's pretty obvious on their chest, they are just flattened boobs that map very badly with any male chest textures.

They are most certainly not player ready, and it would be pointless to have created NPC versions of what would later be a Player Model, we already saw how badly it went with NB.

At most, my wildest speculation could be they did it on purpose to "throw us off", which would be rather insane. I really can't believe they did all this extra work just to hide their intentions heh.

Also, this is how the Venthyr model mapping looks.

So yeah, even considering to make Venthyr playable would requite the whole Nightborne thing to be done again, which would be INSANE.

Dude. Do you realize they need to add them as NPCs first? Otherwise, it would be of no surprise.
Sylvar use the female Draenei rig, Kyrian the female Vrykul one, Maldraxxus Gladiator female uses the female Kul Tiran rig, the males ones use the Ogre rig with a different posture (there is one NPC who uses a Kul Tiran rig instead) and i'm not sure about Venthyr, but they look like Nightborne to me.

Have you seen what the guy above posted? There was a removed ptr quest introducing the Sylvar to the Alliance.

[Triceron]

You do realize they plan expansions ahead of time, right? It's not an on-the-spot decision. They knew they were going to make them playable before adding them. Same as with Highmountain and Lightforged, who were also introduced as NPCs and didn't require tweaking.

Tauren and Draenei are already player races. Highmountain and Lightforged would be taking a Player race and tweaking it into another Player race.

Nightborne was built as a NON PLAYABLE race from the start. Meaning it does not have the right Texture layout or UV's to support gesr customization of a player character.
Nightborne in Legion had a single texture sheet. This literally proves that they did not intend for then to be playable, because all playable races do not use a standard single texture since WoD, when they updated how they do all player textures moving forward.

Highmountain and Lightforged simply reuses Player Race models and textures, and tweaks them with different colors and patterns. Nightborne involved creating textures AND UV's from scratch. A reskin takes hours of work, while completely reUVing and retexturing can be months of work, especially if you factor in a meticulous approval process and technical QA to make sure the textures work properly with their player customization system. Making a race Player viable is a process that involves all departments of art. That is why most Allied Races are based off of existing Playrr races, and not just all brand new NPCs. Most technical issues would already have been figured out for Tauren, Draenei, Orcs, Dwarves and Blood Elves when considering Allied Races. They weren't turning NPCs into Player races, they are tweaking Player Races into other Player races.

Nightborne and Zandalari would have been exceptions here. These two races were originally built as NPCs, and would require model tweaks and completely creating new textures from scratch, which literally means months of work. And that's not even accounting for their customizations, I'm talking about just making the base textures work in the system. They'd have to QA quite a bit to make sure the models and textures support every possible armor combination in the game, something they don't need to do if they're just modifying an existing Player race into another Player race. The same amount of technical work would have been required for all new race models, like Kul Tiran and Vulpera.

Even the Vulpera required some modification, especially in the tail area. They first add them as NPC races because they obviously don't want to spoil them becoming playable. Why would they add the covenant races with males and females, high definition textures, complex animations and several customization options but not apply it to others?

You keep asking why they would add new high res textures for NPCs for both genders when you don't realize they've been doing this since WoD and slowly updating new models and animations over time.

Even Naga have had high res textures and updated animations since Legion, for both genders. Do you see them being playable? No. Blizzard is fine with doing this work for NPCs, and it's perfectly on par with the workflow they have for NPCs. Even Naga are customizeable and can wear armor. They're just not fit for player character becasue they're missing the required player animations or do not support all armor types properly; the same reasons why any ol' NPC can't just be hotswapped as a player race.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_E79gXTjRZo

Like look at this video from 4 years ago. This guy even modded in playable Naga, and it fully supports gear. Most NPCs have some level of customization. Just being customizeable or functional is no indication that Blizzard intends to make them fully playable races.

You're most likely getting Maldraxxus Gladiators.

Curious. If we don't get them in 10.0, would you still be holding out for 11.0 and beyond?

[Ielenia]

If that's what you're insisting on, then yes. As long as it doesn't affect the aforementioned characters, i don't care.

"You not caring" doesn't change the fact that Blizzard does drop storylines and have dropped them in the past. Also, "I don't care" is you weaseling out from admitting you were wrong.

True. Again, we don't know what Blizzard is planning, or have planned, for the ship. You can't tell them what they should or should've not done with their game. It's their decision. As much as you view it as unreasonable.

What I can tell is that they have dropped the plot point about having a space-worthy flying vessel capable of making surgical strikes against targets on the ground.

That's because of balance issues. Remember the Trolls' Beast slaying racial? Yea... that.

You mean the damage-boosting racials? You mean like:
• The worgen's +1% crit?
• The void elf's +5% damage for 12 seconds ever minute?
• The orc's +1% damage to pets and +attack power every 2 minutes?
• The blood elf's +1% crit?
• The goblin's rocket barrage?
• The forsaken's touch of the grave?
• And so on and so forth...

Because it costs money, time and resources.

Again, simple animations to a single rig is quick and easy, relatively speaking.

[rogueMatthias]

Honestly at this point I'd say it's pretty weird we don't have playable Ogres yet. They're iconic to the game and the Horde, and it's been 18 years without them.

I'd make the same argument for High Elves in the Alliance but, let's be honest here, the Void Elves are everything any HE race would be now. I think facial paint is the last thing they'd really need.

Personally I still really want Gnoll for the Alliance! Just for the madness of it.

It's mostly true! The base model -the geometry- is a remade version of the Val'kyr model with higher geometry, but the animations themselves are strangely different. Like they could have reused them but a lot look either remade, or from somewhere else. Someone had said that they actually borrowed some from the female kul tiran model, but I really can't see beyond a passing resemblance.



There are just so many of the Kyrian animations that are ostensibly unique as far as I am aware, kind of like Venthyr. It's just rather odd to me that they would have remade so many of the Valkyr animations, maybe to account for more bones? Nonetheless, interesting.

Looking at that just makes me sad that we didn't end up with an Amazonian/Xena-esque built Kul Tiran model rather than the trash one we eneded up with. I can't say I've seen more than 2 or 3 of them since they were added. Same with Mechagnomes.

[username993720]

Tauren and Draenei are already player races. Highmountain and Lightforged would be taking a Player race and tweaking it into another Player race.

Nightborne was built as a NON PLAYABLE race from the start. Meaning it does not have the right Texture layout or UV's to support gesr customization of a player character.
Nightborne in Legion had a single texture sheet. This literally proves that they did not intend for then to be playable, because all playable races do not use a standard single texture since WoD, when they updated how they do all player textures moving forward.

Highmountain and Lightforged simply reuses Player Race models and textures, and tweaks them with different colors and patterns. Nightborne involved creating textures AND UV's from scratch. A reskin takes hours of work, while completely reUVing and retexturing can be months of work, especially if you factor in a meticulous approval process and technical QA to make sure the textures work properly with their player customization system. Making a race Player viable is a process that involves all departments of art. That is why most Allied Races are based off of existing Playrr races, and not just all brand new NPCs. Most technical issues would already have been figured out for Tauren, Draenei, Orcs, Dwarves and Blood Elves when considering Allied Races. They weren't turning NPCs into Player races, they are tweaking Player Races into other Player races.

Nightborne and Zandalari would have been exceptions here. These two races were originally built as NPCs, and would require model tweaks and completely creating new textures from scratch, which literally means months of work. And that's not even accounting for their customizations, I'm talking about just making the base textures work in the system. They'd have to QA quite a bit to make sure the models and textures support every possible armor combination in the game, something they don't need to do if they're just modifying an existing Player race into another Player race. The same amount of technical work would have been required for all new race models, like Kul Tiran and Vulpera.

Nightborne and Zandalari used the Night elf animation, which gave them a huge advantage. If you're talking solely about their lack of customization options, that's expected and the least of the worries of a new playable race. Again, Kul Tirans had only 2 options before becoming playable.
Kul Tirans also started as NPCs and didn't borrow a skeleton from any of the player races (even if you think it's somehow the Pandaren).

You keep asking why they would add new high res textures for NPCs for both genders when you don't realize they've been doing this since WoD and slowly updating new models and animations over time.

Even Naga have had high res textures and updated animations since Legion, for both genders. Do you see them being playable? No. Blizzard is fine with doing this work for NPCs, and it's perfectly on par with the workflow they have for NPCs. Even Naga are customizeable and can wear armor. They're just not fit for player character becasue they're missing the required player animations or do not support all armor types properly; the same reasons why any ol' NPC can't just be hotswapped as a player race.

Like look at this video from 4 years ago. This guy even modded in playable Naga, and it fully supports gear. Most NPCs have some level of customization. Just being customizeable or functional is no indication that Blizzard intends to make them fully playable races.

Naga only received updated textures. Their animations are still lackluster.

Curious. If we don't get them in 10.0, would you still be holding out for 11.0 and beyond?

Probably.
By the way, the PTR had a removed quest in which you introduce the Sylvar to the Alliance.

"You not caring" doesn't change the fact that Blizzard does drop storylines and have dropped them in the past. Also, "I don't care" is you weaseling out from admitting you were wrong.

I don't care means that the character and its story can keep going on, even if it has gaps.

What I can tell is that they have dropped the plot point about having a space-worthy flying vessel capable of making surgical strikes against targets on the ground.

Your expectations do not align with those of Blizzard.

You mean the damage-boosting racials? You mean like:
• The worgen's +1% crit?
• The void elf's +5% damage for 12 seconds ever minute?
• The orc's +1% damage to pets and +attack power every 2 minutes?
• The blood elf's +1% crit?
• The goblin's rocket barrage?
• The forsaken's touch of the grave?
• And so on and so forth...

No. I mean damage against beasts.
If Blizzard didn't nerf Beast Slaying, Demonbane would have granted bonus damage against Demons.

Again, simple animations to a single rig is quick and easy, relatively speaking.

It serves no benefit if you're not using it in the long-term.

[Triceron]

Nightborne and Zandalari used the Night elf animation, which gave them a huge advantage. If you're talking solely about their lack of customization options, that's expected and the least of the worries of a new playable race. Again, Kul Tirans had only 2 options before becoming playable.
Kul Tirans also started as NPCs and didn't borrow a skeleton from any of the player races (even if you think it's somehow the Pandaren).

You're still not understanding the point.

NPCs will be reusing skeletons because it already saves time and effort. They have already been doing this throughout the past 16+ years. This is why you see multiple NPCs using the same hulking NPCs use Dire Troll skeleton, or the same Hydra beasts use the same 3-headed Hydra skeleton, or the same Cat-based mounts use the same Cat skeletons. Reusing skeletons and animations is a matter of saving time and effort, and has been a longstanding practice since Vanilla. This is not a new concept that suddenly indicates an NPC becoming playable.

Naga only received updated textures. Their animations are still lackluster.

Which is the same comparable point to most of the Shadowlands races. The Vrykul and Valkyr animations are not player viable, and yet you keep considering their reuse as something more substantial than it actually is. It's actually no different than Naga at this point; they still are missing all the required animations to be considered on par with a playable race.

On top of that, most of them are built using the single texture method, like Venthyr. Their models and textures were built specifically as NPC races, not as player-viable models. This is something you keep ignoring or not quite fully understanding.

Probably.
By the way, the PTR had a removed quest in which you introduce the Sylvar to the Alliance.

https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/s...CzsdregO4pAAAA

The Shadowlands beings visiting Stormwind quest may have been just a dev test thing based on some of the text, but it still puts my previously thought ruled out theories about Shadowlands allied races back into the tiniest sliver of possibility.

All it means is that the possibility isn't ruled out. If they want to put the effort into updating those models and animations to become player viable, they absolutely could. My point is, they currently are not, and you can't just point at their reused Skeletons and Animations as an immediate indicator, considering they have been applying the practice of reusing existing skeletons and animations since Vanilla. That is my point. Even Jinyu were created using male Night Elf skeleton and animations. Pygmies in Uldum were created using Male Goblin skeletons. Saberon are based on Worgen form skeleton, Botani share the skeleton and animations of the new Zandalari model that was introduced in patch 5.2, which was, in turn, based on male night elf animations.

Your logic implies that these races would become playable because they're adapted using existing player race skeletons. Yet there are many examples of NPCs that already use existing player race skeletons that remain non-playable today. Blizzard is okay with reusing player skeletons for NPCs, simple as that.

If you actually listen to my arguments, you'd see that I'm not arguing against them ever becoming playable, I'm arguing against your reasons that reusing player (and NPC, for some reason) skeletons and animations indicates that they will become playable. That is the point.

The discussion on whether you or I think they will become playable comes down to belief. What you consider an indicator isn't actually an indicator. That is what I'm illustrating by pointing out NPCs that reuse Player animations but were not modelled and textured using a Player Race viable method. I'm showing you that Blizzard has been willing to put effort into creating a high res NPC model that reuses existing animations for an Non Playable character. Jinyu, Pygmies, Saberon, Botani, Ankoan, Throne of Thunder Zandalari, Mogu are all examples of NPCs models that reuse player skeletons. None of these models were made playable. In the case of the Player Race Zandalari, they created a completely new Zandalari model.

You're drawing the conclusion that NPCs that have reused player skeletons will become playable, not realizing that this is standard practice and most humanoid NPCs use a modified, existing humanoid Skeleton in some form. Whether it's reusing NPC humanoids like Dire Troll, Ogre, Vrykul or Ethereal skeletons, or reusing Player race skeletons like Night Elf, Human, Goblin or Pandaren, they will reuse skeletons because it's a matter of saving time and effort.
There are more humanoid NPCs that reuse skeletons and animations than there are NPCs with brand new unique skeletons and animations. That's simply the facts here.