Being assertive is NOT trolling. It's alarming how many people (including moderators) still have not got that memo.
A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore
So a conglomeration of things made it less appealing to casuals over time.
Casuals were not complaining anywhere near the extent back then as they are now. And sub numbers were much higher, so there were a lot more around who could have complained if they felt the need.
- - - Updated - - -
Please stop responding to me.
Being assertive is NOT trolling. It's alarming how many people (including moderators) still have not got that memo.
Just ran the simbot on my toon, 239 tier pieces, 262 legendaries and 255 on every other slot. The power difference is about 20% lower from my current ilvl (276). You don't need those extra 20% to clear a 15, or a normal raid. And it's more than enough to progress through heroic while you swap out 239 to 262 tier pieces.
- - - Updated - - -
Yes but doing subpar damage just because you didn't drop a weapon with appropriate ilvl feelsbad when the rest of your gear is good.
It was a really funny day a couple years or so ago when I think ion showed that 1 ilvl difference is 1% dps difference like the poster above was saying. Ppl claimed it was like a 50% dps difference and were blown away when it wasn't. Was funny when he said it was a skill issue lol
My point was that the valor upgrade mechanic is both good and bad, good because it lessens the blow on lousy rng and you can just upgrade your stuff, bad because you "only" gain an extra 1% every upgrade you do. Of course when you compare full 252 ilvl to 278 there's a massive damage gap, but no one really jumps from 252 to 278 without going past 253,254,255 etc.
Sports are played by tons of people without any expectation or interest in any reward for doing so. People play for the love of the game itself.
Take E-sports for a more direct analogue; those players compete for prizes and get paid to play. Would they stop playing video games entirely if they were no longer competing in those leagues? There's plenty of people doing speedrunning or the like because they love doing it, not because they make any money or gain any tacit rewards for it.
If you're gonna push me, I'm gonna point out that WoW's a giant treadmill which dangles the concept of "Fun" in front of you as a reward that never actually arrives. I disagree that it's "fun" at the lower levels, too, they're just on a lower speed setting of the treadmill. They keep telling you about endorphins, and you keep sweating and grinding, and it never gets better. And then they upgrade you from the Treadmaster 2000 to the brand-new Treadmaster 3000 and you have to start from scratch again.
The loot system's the carrot that fundamentally distracts you from the fact that it's a race with no finish line, just running laps until you die.
Could you explain what I'm getting confused?
- - - Updated - - -
If its not fun at lower levels, adding bis gear to those levels isn't gonna make it fun. Which is the point of this thread is it not?
If you're not having fun, play something else. Not hard
You went off on a tangent talking about simulated data, which by the way, you've done before where the onus is on you and you tell someone to go do their own research. That's not how a discussion works. You're trying to push your hyperbole and conjecture into a logical discussion.
Being assertive is NOT trolling. It's alarming how many people (including moderators) still have not got that memo.
And to win.
Pro players keep playing because it is a source of revenue, if e-sports wasn't a thing, you'd still find people playing unhealthy amounts of games too, the fact that it is economically viable is just a bonus. Football wouldn't stop being popular just because we stopped paying the national teams.Take E-sports for a more direct analogue; those players compete for prizes and get paid to play. Would they stop playing video games entirely if they were no longer competing in those leagues? There's plenty of people doing speedrunning or the like because they love doing it, not because they make any money or gain any tacit rewards for it.
If you don't find it fun, you could always get off the treadmill ? Blizz isn't exactly holding a gun to your head and asking you to run on it.If you're gonna push me, I'm gonna point out that WoW's a giant treadmill which dangles the concept of "Fun" in front of you as a reward that never actually arrives. I disagree that it's "fun" at the lower levels, too, they're just on a lower speed setting of the treadmill. They keep telling you about endorphins, and you keep sweating and grinding, and it never gets better. And then they upgrade you from the Treadmaster 2000 to the brand-new Treadmaster 3000 and you have to start from scratch again.
The loot system's the carrot that fundamentally distracts you from the fact that it's a race with no finish line, just running laps until you die.
And my point is that the gear ladder is a distraction from that same underlying issue. If all people care about is the rewards, that's because the underlying content isn't "fun enough" in its own right. That isn't something you fix by monkeying with rewards, in the first place, but it is valid to use the focus on rewards to demonstrate the underlying lack.
Ok, so you're putting all your eggs in 1 basket based on information from a Blizzard employee who has been proven mathematically wrong several times (once even by someone who doesn't even raid but just happened to notice his math was way off) all while only looking at simulated data and not live data which too has been shown on countless occasions to be incorrect.
I really don't know how to help you.
Being assertive is NOT trolling. It's alarming how many people (including moderators) still have not got that memo.