Crisis in UK, Can Tories Save Liz Truss?

[tehealadin]

There needs to be a GE soon. She never had a mandate to do what she is doing. She has been as useless and damaging as her critics said she would be. She was in lockstep with the chancellor all the way, it makes no sense that he should go but she doesn't. I suspect deep down even she knows it. Thanks very much Tory party.

[Crispin]

Is Dribbles back to liking Lis toenail?

Last time it was “mad Lis”

Anyhow tax cuts during inflation is fucking retarded, Dribbles is a ignorant as Lis when it comes to basics.

[Pann]

There needs to be a GE soon. She never had a mandate to do what she is doing. She has been as useless and damaging as her critics said she would be. She was in lockstep with the chancellor all the way, it makes no sense that he should go but she doesn't. I suspect deep down even she knows it. Thanks very much Tory party.

The new PM is already starting to walk back all her policies.

On a serious note she is now PM in name only and her future in the position will be measured in weeks and days. Quite honestly I would not be surprised if she was no longer PM come November.

[jonnysensible]

lol as soon as the noncy libertarian tories got into power they got bent over by reality. All tories are fucking scum but these cunts are particularly detestable.

[Glorious Leader]

The problem with Labour and their inevitable punitive tax rates is that they crush aspiration.

Shockingly enough not everyone is a fucking megolmaniacal sociopath hellbent on maximum wealth extraction and rent seeking. Sometimes aspirations aren't expressed entirely in money.

[Endus]

The problem with Labour and their inevitable punitive tax rates is that they crush aspiration.

The aspirations of the uber-wealthy, perhaps.

Doesn't everyone dream of being in the top 1%?

Why would I? I dream of being comfortable enough to afford what I want, and my wants aren't that significant. Things like "a decent gaming rig" or "a nice new car", not "a half-million-dollar McLaren" or "a second yacht".

Frankly, the desire for that kind of excess seems pretty damned gross. It sure seems like it's more about feeling superior to other people than it is about being satisfied with your own life.

Well when they talk about levelling up they don't really mean that but they try to make all equal by dragging the rich down to the level of the poor.

No, drag the rich down to the level of the middle class. And the poor up to that level.

It never works, only one person can own the coffee shop, if everyone owns one who will serve the coffee? Society has to have rich and poor people or it just doesn't work.

This is just bananas nonsense. Ownership can be shared, and often is. Worker-owned shops aren't that uncommon. And nothing about ownership means you can't also work. There's nothing about ownership that mandates profits going to the owners. A socialist model is about every worker retaining the value of their own productivity, rather than it being taken from them by capitalist owners, who need do no work whatsoever to justify the profits they garner.

Conservatives know this and by cutting taxes allow people to keep more of their own earned money in the belief that they can spend it better and more efficiently than government can. They give the opportunity for all to truly level up. Labour crush dreams, the Tories create them for people.

Profit is literally intentional inefficiency, so that the capitalists can scrape off the top for their own gain. It's not that functionally different from a cashier swiping a couple 20s out of the till every shift; it's just legally protected rather than criminalized. But it's the same process. Efficiency would mean all productivity goes towards production/service, rather than those two and profit margins. Public corporations can achieve that, for-profit corporations literally cannot. Profit margins always make a company less efficient, by design.

[Kallisto]

Doesn't everyone dream of being in the top 1%?

Hell no, what am I or any rational person going to do with that amount of money? Second Yacht? Third house? Why would I want any of these. Most people aren't selfish cunts like you. If I had that amount of money 99% of it would be going into charities so that actual people have the means to actually live. Not horde it so there's a consistent underclass that's struggling to live.

[dribbles]

The aspirations of the uber-wealthy, perhaps.

Why would I? I dream of being comfortable enough to afford what I want, and my wants aren't that significant. Things like "a decent gaming rig" or "a nice new car", not "a half-million-dollar McLaren" or "a second yacht".

Frankly, the desire for that kind of excess seems pretty damned gross. It sure seems like it's more about feeling superior to other people than it is about being satisfied with your own life.

Thats a minority opinion though. Here in the UK 70% on average (and 57% in the USA) attempt to join the ranks of the top 1% by doing the lottery. Most people are not happy with just a good gaming rig, dream and aspire for more. https://www.lottoland.co.uk/magazine...ographics.html

No, drag the rich down to the level of the middle class. And the poor up to that level.

Where on earth is this successful nation using that system you describe, could you give an example of such a nation the UK and the US should mirror? Is there even one in the G20? And we already do that to a limited extent in the UK, over a quarter of all income tax receipts are paid by the top 1%. They more than enough pay their way, tax the rich too much and they will leave with their wealth. You can't have a society that works with all the rich gone and only poor people in it, much as the Labour party here try to say otherwise.

This is just bananas nonsense. Ownership can be shared, and often is. Worker-owned shops aren't that uncommon. And nothing about ownership means you can't also work. There's nothing about ownership that mandates profits going to the owners. A socialist model is about every worker retaining the value of their own productivity, rather than it being taken from them by capitalist owners, who need do no work whatsoever to justify the profits they garner.

Profit is literally intentional inefficiency, so that the capitalists can scrape off the top for their own gain. It's not that functionally different from a cashier swiping a couple 20s out of the till every shift; it's just legally protected rather than criminalized. But it's the same process. Efficiency would mean all productivity goes towards production/service, rather than those two and profit margins. Public corporations can achieve that, for-profit corporations literally cannot. Profit margins always make a company less efficient, by design.

We have an example of a Co-op, it has a branch on most high streets in the UK. It still requires rich people and poor people to make it work. The one rich CEO of that co op is paid a million quid a year, 99% of the poor shop floor staff would be on minimum wage or not much more. The Co-op would not work if all staff were paid equally in compensation to the CEO. Much as they might dream to be. https://www.co-operative.coop/about-...-and-directors

Wealth inequality is here to stay, sometimes it's just how lifes cookie crumbles and all of society is better off for it.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Wealth inequality is here to stay, sometimes it's just how lifes cookie crumbles and all of society is better off for it.

Probably exactly what aristocrats in France were saying, just before the bulk of society decided that they weren't "better off for it".

But I can understand why this would look like a good way to run things when you're a sociopath.

[Endus]

Thats a minority opinion though. Here in the UK 70% on average (and 57% in the USA) attempt to join the ranks of the top 1% by doing the lottery. Most people are not happy with just a good gaming rig, dream and aspire for more. https://www.lottoland.co.uk/magazine...ographics.html

Your one data point, "how many people play the lottery", does not justify your conclusion, that the majority wish to be richer than everyone else. If anything, it speaks to the impact of wealth inequality and the impossibility of achieving a comfortable living condition for that majority, who have to resort to desperate gambles like the lottery as their only possible path out of poverty.

Where on earth is this successful nation using that system you describe, could you give an example of such a nation the UK and the US should mirror?

I made no such claim, and thus this is you deflecting. That something hasn't yet been done does not mean it's not achievable or functional.

It makes as much sense as claiming in 1980 "where's this world where everyone has a portable computer in their pocket? Name one country where that's true?" and yet, today, that's the truth in most global nations, even developing nations.

It's just not an argument, at all. And demonstrates how little actual basis you have to defend your ideological point of view. You can't address me meaningfully, so you push this empty bullshit deflection and propaganda, because that's all you've got.

[Gorsameth]

Just because Capitalism is basically the only successful system atm doesn't mean that the current level of inequality both in total wealth and reward is required.
The system will not collapse if the CEO makes 10x what a normal worker makes instead of 2000x.

[Pann]

It's started! Three Tory MPs have openly called on Truss to resign I expect more to follow in the next couple of days, I think once we reach the mid-teens, early twenties or so the number will start to climb rapidly.

Zelensky has reportedly said to his aids to tell her that he is out if she calls.

[Nymrohd]

It's started! Three Tory MPs have openly called on Truss to resign I expect more to follow in the next couple of days, I think once we reach the mid-teens, early twenties or so the number will start to climb rapidly.

Zelensky has reportedly said to his aids to tell her that he is out if she calls.

Honestly having people call him every time they need a good headline back home must be fairly tiresome.

[Kallisto]

Honestly having people call him every time they need a good headline back home must be fairly tiresome.

I honestly would laugh if she went to Kyiv only for Zelensky was in a newly liberated town or city.

[Pann]

Honestly having people call him every time they need a good headline back home must be fairly tiresome.

I imagine that military hardware and billions in aid makes up for it.

[Crispin]

Thats a minority opinion though. Here in the UK 70% on average (and 57% in the USA) attempt to join the ranks of the top 1% by doing the lottery. Most people are not happy with just a good gaming rig, dream and aspire for more. https://www.lottoland.co.uk/magazine...ographics.html



Where on earth is this successful nation using that system you describe, could you give an example of such a nation the UK and the US should mirror? Is there even one in the G20? And we already do that to a limited extent in the UK, over a quarter of all income tax receipts are paid by the top 1%. They more than enough pay their way, tax the rich too much and they will leave with their wealth. You can't have a society that works with all the rich gone and only poor people in it, much as the Labour party here try to say otherwise.



We have an example of a Co-op, it has a branch on most high streets in the UK. It still requires rich people and poor people to make it work. The one rich CEO of that co op is paid a million quid a year, 99% of the poor shop floor staff would be on minimum wage or not much more. The Co-op would not work if all staff were paid equally in compensation to the CEO. Much as they might dream to be. https://www.co-operative.coop/about-...-and-directors

Wealth inequality is here to stay, sometimes it's just how lifes cookie crumbles and all of society is better off for it.

You gotta do some crazy mental loops, to conclude that playing the lottery = unhappy because not part of the 1%

Realise that money =/= happy. Personally I’ll prioritise my family, kids and doing what I enjoy, over “GeT riCh oR diE trYiN soN!” I suspect that many rich people enjoy entrepreneurship, which happens to make them rich.. it seems extremely immature of you to conclude that money = happiness. Kinda feel sorry for you if that’s really what you think.

[Iliena]

Thats a minority opinion though. Here in the UK 70% on average (and 57% in the USA) attempt to join the ranks of the top 1% by doing the lottery.

That has got to be the most braindead thing you have said in a long time.

Wealth inequality is here to stay, sometimes it's just how lifes cookie crumbles and all of society is better off for it.

You don't seem to understand society needs everybody to function well, people to be high flyers to push progress and have the idea's, the one's in the middle to do skilled and managerial jobs and the people at the bottom to do the semi-skilled and unskilled jobs, this has to be somewhat balanced for the system to function effectively and don't forget if the people at the bottom and middle have less disposable income the economy as a whole suffers.

That's how the cookie crumbles and your wish to go back with your hero Rees-Mogg to how things were in Victorian times is not going to happen, people are far to well educated these days to allow it, come the next election I think you will have a better understanding of it.

[RaoBurning]

We have an example of a Co-op, it has a branch on most high streets in the UK. It still requires rich people and poor people to make it work. The one rich CEO of that co op is paid a million quid a year, 99% of the poor shop floor staff would be on minimum wage or not much more. The Co-op would not work if all staff were paid equally in compensation to the CEO. Much as they might dream to be. https://www.co-operative.coop/about-...-and-directors

Wealth inequality is here to stay, sometimes it's just how lifes cookie crumbles and all of society is better off for it.

If you pay the CEO less, then yes by golly everybody can make more money. Did... that "don't pay the CEO hundreds of times more than everyone else" idea not ever occur to you?

[Pann]

New Opinium MRP poll projects a Labour win with 411 seats and Tory heavyweights such as Boris Johnson, Patel, Rees-Mogg all losing their seats - https://twitter.com/electpoliticsuk/...46060145627139. It is rumoured that there will be a run on gilts tomorrow which will require further BOE intervention if this happens I expect Truss to be gone by Tuesday night if not much will depend on her performance at PMQs on Wednesday but I have a strong suspicion that no matter how she performs we are entering the last week of Truss' time as PM.

[Paranoid Android]

What is wrong with you UK? You really want to be like us (United States). Trying to get rid of Universal Healthcare and thinking that the rich will save you will by giving them tax cuts. Good luck with that.