Give the Horde better leaders.

[Nymrohd]

It would also nicely explain why Doomhammer ended in player's possesion without some really bizzare expanation that elements care about honor of mortal races.

I see that repeated often and it is simply untrue and explained under the Doomhammer's history in the class hall. The elements abandoned Thrall because Thrall lost his confidence, not because he felt he acted dishonorably. It is a nuanced difference. Sure Thrall lost his confidence because he felt so but the elements did not give a shit about why. He felt unworthy of them so he WAS unworthy of them.

[Ramz]

I see that repeated often and it is simply untrue and explained under the Doomhammer's history in the class hall. The elements abandoned Thrall because Thrall lost his confidence, not because he felt he acted dishonorably. It is a nuanced difference. Sure Thrall lost his confidence because he felt so but the elements did not give a shit about why. He felt unworthy of them so he WAS unworthy of them.

I can see your point and I was considering this option too as more sinsible approach, but the reason why people got that impression was because Thrall himself adressed this issue that 'Elements were not answering his calls after the duel with Garrosh' (I'm paraphrasing here). He could've been more clear that the issue was about his confidence, but the way he phrased it made it look that Elements were not pleased with the whole Mak'gora and ever since denied Thrall help.

[Nymrohd]

I can see your point and I was considering this option too as more sinsible approach, but the reason why people got that impression was because Thrall himself adressed this issue that 'Elements were not answering his calls after the duel with Garrosh' (I'm paraphrasing here). He could've been more clear that the issue was about his confidence, but the way he phrased it made it look that Elements were not pleased with the whole Mak'gora and ever since denied Thrall help.

That's cause Thrall himself was not facing the truth. He had to regain his confidence which was the point of his arc with Draka in SL. I expect that next time he faces important combat, he will be able to act as a shaman again and get back to his previous power level (or beyond it if needed).

[Ramz]

That's cause Thrall himself was not facing the truth. He had to regain his confidence which was the point of his arc with Draka in SL. I expect that next time he faces important combat, he will be able to act as a shaman again and get back to his previous power level (or beyond it if needed).

I haven't played Shadowlands, so I cannot say for sure, but let's say that was indeed the intnetion they went with - I just don't see how Thrall is meant to work again, he comes and goes, each time we face him we have to deal with his personal problems, and he is just no longer engaging character. What purpose he has now, when he is as a character doesn't know that. I loved Original Thrall, now I can't recognise him anymore. But he is here, because Outside of Eitrigg Orcs don't really have any other characters left that have any shred of prominence. It's really a very sad picture.

[Nymrohd]

I think Thrall is salvageable and given the state of the Horde roster, they better make the effort.

[Ramz]

I think Thrall is salvageable and given the state of the Horde roster, they better make the effort.

They better do, but Blizzard has very poor track record in this regard. I want for each character to be used to it's fullest potential and explore lots of in-game problems and themes, expanding racial stories and so on.
Vol'Jin had to wait til the late Wrath for devs to actually use him, so I assume that Rokhan will get a spotlight as a chieftain in expansion after Dragonflight, and that is optimistic bet.Realistically the only chance comes with Heritage armor, if they didn't give up on the idea yet.

[masterjc]

where is Abasik Campfire?
he seemed to be pretty good candidate

[Shadowferal]

where is Abasik Campfire? he seemed to be pretty good candidate

Sonuvabitch has done more damage than the entire horde and alliance altogether.

[Grazrug]

Talanji needs to cut all ties to the Horde until their are willing to help her take revenge against Jaina.

- - - Updated - - -

Sonuvabitch has done more damage than the entire horde and alliance altogether.

Sylvanas wanted to bring down the alliance and dismantle their power.

[Gamingsince1981]

They should make an alliance leader the horde war chief, that way they won't be so terrible and not be run by mud hut ooga boogas that think the first resort is always throw spears and scream, then we can get that old portal fixed and send the orcs back from where they came , because no one wants them around.

[Grazrug]

Considering that even after the time skip the Horde council has done nothing to punish the alliance for the attack on Zandalar it is about time the Zandalari trolls leave the faction and deny them resources until the council is removed and they are willing to attack.Kul Tiras so that Jaina can finally be killed.

[Grazrug]

They should make an alliance leader the horde war chief, that way they won't be so terrible and not be run by mud hut ooga boogas that think the first resort is always throw spears and scream, then we can get that old portal fixed and send the orcs back from where they came , because no one wants them around.

Get your Horde hating opinions out of here.

[shadowmatrix]

As if the horde is dependent of their supplies, they can leave and fight alone. A broken empire facing an entire faction alone, should be a quick defeat.

[Shadowferal]

No.
They should be a more neutral faction. Have the Darkspear lead an alliance of troll clans, Amani, Zandalari, Gurubashi, Farraki, and the Drakkari...s story that will be worth telling.

Break the Horde up into different independent factions, sending a message to the orcs.

[Grazrug]

As if the horde is dependent of their supplies, they can leave and fight alone. A broken empire facing an entire faction alone, should be a quick defeat.

The council only cares for their friendship with Anduin and Jaina. They are willing to tear down their own faction just so the alliance can prosper.

[Shadowferal]

Sylvanas wanted to bring down the alliance and dismantle their power.

I don't believe you understand the context of my response to "masterjc's" post.

[Toppy]

As if the horde is dependent of their supplies, they can leave and fight alone. A broken empire facing an entire faction alone, should be a quick defeat.

Since when has that ever mattered on any level in Warcraft? Remember how the Blood Elves were nearly extinct. And how ALL of Stormwind fit on some refugee boats one generation ago. Also singular factions fighting off multiple at once has been a Warcraft standard for some time.

You can't apply logic to a setting that has NEVER subscribed to any level of logic.

[Ielenia]

Sylvanas wanted to bring down the alliance and dismantle their power.

Nnnnnnnnnnnoooo....

Sylvanas wanted to bring down the Alliance and the Horde, because her actual goal was to feed as many souls as possible to the Maw. Sylvanas didn't care for the Horde. To her, they were nothing but fuel waiting to be reaped and fed into the Jailer's forges.

[Maljinwo]

Nnnnnnnnnnnoooo....

Sylvanas wanted to bring down the Alliance and the Horde, because her actual goal was to feed as many souls as possible to the Maw. Sylvanas didn't care for the Horde. To her, they were nothing but fuel waiting to be reaped and fed into the Jailer's forges.

But in this poster's eyes it doesn't matter what happens to the Horde as long as every Alliance member, children included, are killed in every horrific way possible because that's how the true Horde acts

[Raisei]

Nnnnnnnnnnnoooo....

Sylvanas wanted to bring down the Alliance and the Horde, because her actual goal was to feed as many souls as possible to the Maw. Sylvanas didn't care for the Horde. To her, they were nothing but fuel waiting to be reaped and fed into the Jailer's forges.

It's pointless. Gazrug does not believe in the same reality as most people, hence why trying to make him understand this fact with words is impossible. The game had Sylvanas herself explain every detail of her evil plan and it is still not penetrating his mind at all. He has convinced himself that everything bad ever happening to the Horde is the fault of the Alliance or "traitors" like Baine and Saurfang and facts that contradict this reality are filtered from his conciousness.

- - - Updated - - -

Considering that even after the time skip the Horde council has done nothing to punish the alliance for the attack on Zandalar it is about time the Zandalari trolls leave the faction and deny them resources until the council is removed and they are willing to attack.Kul Tiras so that Jaina can finally be killed.

It is beyond facinating that you on the one hand cry for justice when a Horde faction is attacked, but at the same time demand that the Horde itself is excused of any and all wrongdoing when it commits genocides.
I know you will not understand this, but just try for halve a second to look objectively at the matter. Teldrassil alone has cost more lives then every attack of the Alliance in history combined. The Zandalari and the Horde had it more then coming. That either of those two factions still exist is a sign of the Alliances infinite mercy. Something that has always cost us dearly and will again when the next Warchief goes nuts.