Defund the Police U.S or anywhere?

[minteK917]

General liberal, we don't try to solve problems, we just virtue signal

All those shit are virtue signals lol. None of these dumb or less dumb slogan happens wth no support. Until then its like uuhname said. People like to TALK ABOUT IT. CAN WE JUST TALK ABOUT IT. Yeah cool. Talk away then.

[Forogil]

why the fuck do you think I care about who is giving the cops tanks?

People who try to solve the problem care.

You are clearly not in that group, and think that funding-changes are relevant for something available free of charge.

[Specialka]

All you are doing is proving that people are talking out their ass when they say the 'slogan is the problem'. It's just that simple to come up with something, so if the slogan is the only problem then just say something else.

General liberal, we don't try to solve problems, we just virtue signal

yeah, that is usually the left leaning crowd that are like this.

[minteK917]

It really feels like every climate change thread ever when people start saying things like "you can't say global warming and climate change; you need to pick one. You scientists are so inconsistent and can't keep your story straight".

Those people don't have an argument. They just have willful ignorance. There's nothing you could ever tell them that will ever change their minds, and it's a waste of everyone's time and effort trying.

And it really bothers me how many people are suggesting lying to others about your motives and intent because the lie is more appealing than the truth.

Yeah and its another cause doing fucking great. Is there another cause doing fucking great you wanna mention lol. To be honest i think what damaged global warming more was pushing cataclysmic stuff prediction in the early 2000. People care for it seems to have taken such a spin downward, pretty sure human will only care about global warming once its to the point where we have to live indoor all the time, but then its too late anyway. So im expecting to have to live indoor before my death.

[uuuhname]

People who try to solve the problem care.

You are clearly not in that group, and think that funding-changes are relevant for something available free of charge.

again, explain why cops need tanks. either answer that question or don't bother responding.

[Endus]

Then how the fuck do you expect to fix it? I didnt expect you to also be in that dumb group that rather speak about shit instead of finding ways to somehow expedient some changes, even if minimal.

Haven't done a lot of work with governments, have you?

You don't need to convince voters of shit. The people you spend your time talking to are the elected representatives, who (generally), have a bit more focus and understanding. You speak to, in this case, police advisory councils in local municipalities and seek to convince them to pursue defunding directly.

I've done most of the advocacy I've been part of with municipal or regional governments, and while we do spend time talking to the average citizen, it isn't as advocates, it's to determine what the needs and interests of the local interest groups are, from their own mouths, rather than presuming. The advocacy goes to the government, to write policy to address those needs and concerns.

I've had a hell of a lot more influence, to the point of writing regional policy directly, as an advocate and analyst than any set of voters has ever had.

If you convince your city government of the value of defunding their PD, those Councillors and the Mayor can just . . . go ahead and pass those new policies through and get to work. They don't need to talk to the public at all (though they probably will, same as I mentioned above). It isn't something that needs to be voted on at all.

The idea that the only way anything gets done is by voting is just really, really false, and whoever's sold you on that nonsense was doing their damndest to render you politically irrelevant.

Get involved, start talking to decision-makers, and that's how anything meaningful gets done.

Wasting all your time trying to get votes is wasting everyone's time and why nothing ever gets done in the USA these days.

[minteK917]

again, explain why cops need tanks. either answer that question or don't bother responding.

They dont and guess what since those are given. Even defunded they would get that tank. So mabye, theres another problem you need to tackle other then fund. JUST MABYE.

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Haven't done a lot of work with governments, have you?

You don't need to convince voters of shit. The people you spend your time talking to are the elected representatives, who (generally), have a bit more focus and understanding. You speak to, in this case, police advisory councils in local municipalities and seek to convince them to pursue defunding directly.

I've done most of the advocacy I've been part of with municipal or regional governments, and while we do spend time talking to the average citizen, it isn't as advocates, it's to determine what the needs and interests of the local interest groups are, from their own mouths, rather than presuming. The advocacy goes to the government, to write policy to address those needs and concerns.

I've had a hell of a lot more influence, to the point of writing regional policy directly, as an advocate and analyst than any set of voters has ever had.

If you convince your city government of the value of defunding their PD, those Councillors and the Mayor can just . . . go ahead and pass those new policies through and get to work. They don't need to talk to the public at all (though they probably will, same as I mentioned above). It isn't something that needs to be voted on at all.

The idea that the only way anything gets done is by voting is just really, really false, and whoever's sold you on that nonsense was doing their damndest to render you politically irrelevant.

Get involved, start talking to decision-makers, and that's how anything meaningful gets done.

Wasting all your time trying to get votes is wasting everyone's time and why nothing ever gets done in the USA these days.

If there is 20% municipal support for defunding your PD. Its not happening even if theres 20 Endus working with the mayor saying so. Just mean there will be a new mayor next cycle. The only reason anything you talk about this big to a Mayor gets done, is that they can feel this is expedient. Nobody said changes needed votes. It needs politicians that can feel this is popular enough for them to make the change and keep it changed. If it was as easy as just changing the mind of a handful of person. The police would be gone already lol.

[Endus]

Yeah and its another cause doing fucking great. Is there another cause doing fucking great you wanna mention lol.

What the heck are you even talking about?

We're making pretty significant inroads with climate change adaptation, dude. Pretty much every nation is already adjusting and making plans to handle the major impacts. Pretty much the only nation with any significant level of climate change denial is the USA. Also the same nation with the only significant level of flat-eartherism, or young-Earth creationism, or a whole passel of other incredibly willfully ignorant bits of nonsense.

You're pushing denialist rhetoric right here, and you don't even realize it.

[uuuhname]

"they would still get the tank anyway, so they get the tank, dummy, haven't you considered another angle!?"

wow, you mean something has to be done about the government giving the cops tanks? you mean another subject you have no interest in engaging with honestly? good to know, peanut.

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You're pushing denialist rhetoric right here, and you don't even realize it.

no, they know exactly what they're doing.

[Endus]

If there is 20% municipal support for defunding your PD. Its not happening even if theres 20 Endus working with the mayor saying so. Just mean there will be a new mayor next cycle. The only reason anything you talk about this big to a Mayor gets done, is that they can feel this is expedient. Nobody said changes needed votes. It needs politicians that can feel this is popular enough for them to make the change and keep it changed.

You're back to focusing entirely on popular support, and that's just not how policy's written, dude. Anywhere.

[minteK917]

You're back to focusing entirely on popular support, and that's just not how policy's written, dude. Anywhere.

Well tell me when you delete the police, since its that easy. Ill be waiting. That you think you only need to convince politicians is hell of funny thought.

[Endus]

Well tell me when you delete the police, since its that easy. Ill be waiting.

Who said "easy"? And where did "delete" come from?

Look at them goalposts go whizzing by.

[Shadowferal]

The argument was lost in '20, and reinforced when cities that were the most receptive to "defund police" increased funding.
Sure, at least people are talking about it.

[minteK917]

Who said "easy"? And where did "delete" come from?

Look at them goalposts go whizzing by.

No, you are literally working in fucking reverse from all we know lol, so im just hyperbolic. So how was our gay marriage support in Canada when all provinces started making it legal in the early 2000. Oh yeah, it already had massive support. Hmmmm, I guess I was only the endus of the country that got together and whispered in prime ministers ears and not the whole fucking society had shifted massively into supporting same sex marriage. Nah couldnt be it. How about the right to die....oh wait that had massive support almost a decade before it happened, but it MUST HAVE BEEN THE ENDUS WHISPERING. What about weed, nope never mind even cops stopped arresting you for weed in most places a decade before the law. Man those endus whisperer convincing politicians to pass laws. THEY CANT BE STOP. SOCIETY DOESENT DO ANYTHING, ITS ALL THE SHADOW ENDUS GUYS. NOBODY CARES ABOUT SUPPORT.

[uuuhname]

Who said "easy"? And where did "delete" come from?

Look at them goalposts go whizzing by.

IDK how anyone can be aware of the Republican's political agenda for the last 50+ years and think grass roots popularity means a damn thing to those people.

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wow, you mean society, despite it's conservative government, drifted to being more progressive and inclusive!? inconceivable! it must have been the cultural Marxists.

[minteK917]

IDK how anyone can be aware of the Republican's political agenda for the last 50+ years and think grass roots popularity means a damn thing to those people.

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wow, you mean society, despite it's conservative government, drifted to being more progressive and inclusive!? inconceivable! it must have been the cultural Marxists.

I know right, its almost like THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE YOU NEED TO CONVINCE FIRST. Not the fucking politicians endus think hes whispering into the ears of. I know right. If you are at the point where you whisper into he ears of politicians, its already supported in society, not the fucking reverse.

So we are back to square one. If abolishing the police is a goal, how is it demonstrated to a society that this is worth supporting. If society is mostly bought in, like all the other changes it will ultimately happen. How do you get to that goal. Mabye doing other things first, that shows polices arent as needed as people are bought in to believe. So how do we tackle this first steps.

[uuuhname]

I know right, its almost like THOSE ARE THE PEOPLE YOU NEED TO CONVINCE FIRST. Not the fucking politicians endus think hes whispering into the ears of. I know right. If you are at the point where you whisper into he ears of politicians, its already supported in society, not the fucking reverse.

are you not aware of how US politics works? like, are you seriously suggesting the only people that count worth a damn are the monied interests that have the money and power to bribe politicians? I mean, it makes YOUR stance make a little bit more sense, but that's it.

[Ripster42]

Haven't done a lot of work with governments, have you?

You don't need to convince voters of shit. The people you spend your time talking to are the elected representatives, who (generally), have a bit more focus and understanding. You speak to, in this case, police advisory councils in local municipalities and seek to convince them to pursue defunding directly.

Trying to convince elected representatives that won't give you the time of day is a waste of time. Look at the GOP. They'd spit on you sooner than they'd listen to someone like you. The first step is getting elected representatives who will listen in office, and with a vote share big enough that change won't affect their chances of getting re-elected.

It's great that you're privileged to the point you don't have to worry about that first step in canada. We're not there yet. Public opinion, in our case, still matters.

[minteK917]

are you not aware of how US politics works? like, are you seriously suggesting the only people that count worth a damn are the monied interests that have the money and power to bribe politicians? I mean, it makes YOUR stance make a little bit more sense, but that's it.

No, sadly if it was as easy as bribe. Sometimes good changes could happen faster. Then again so could terrible changes. My stance is that the idea that politicians are gona listen to a endus like person with no society support is literally ridiculous. It never happens or endus just never checked polls on anything he advocated for. If he was part of any of these big policy shifts in his and my country in the last 20 years. He would know that the government is fucking 10 years behind anything. Hes not a fucking shaman convincing mayors to do shit that is unpopular at large. I actually dont think bribe are as powerful or as common as people think. My province had a lot of corruption and most of it amount to giving friends contract and shit. In the USA money probably plays a larger roles, but I dont think the stats show it does as much as people think. I think most people are just oblivious to the division on some issues society has in general.

A good example again for the USA is healthcare. When asked Americans track in the high 80% as in favor of every American having access to healthcare. But when you go into the weeds of HOW to give American access to heathcare, that shit is cleaved into literally small chunks of support for different things. Every democrat politician is gona have a different interest there, not even because of money. But because even among democrats voted area, these arent clear issues with one answer at the top.

If you agree with me that society shift before a government like you just did, why the fuck do you not realize why you need to fucking look at people support to know where to fucking go?

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Trying to convince elected representatives that won't give you the time of day is a waste of time. Look at the GOP. They'd spit on you sooner than they'd listen to someone like you. The first step is getting elected representatives who will listen in office, and with a vote share big enough that change won't affect their chances of getting re-elected.

It's great that you're privileged to the point you don't have to worry about that first step in canada. We're not there yet. Public opinion, in our case, still matters.

No he has to worry about the first step, endus is too far up his ass right now to even realize, anything he advocated for had massive support in the country before any politician even moved a fucking finger lol. No amount of Endus whispering made weed legal, most of the country stopped caring about weed and police stopped arresting you for weed, made politician put weed legal. The change wasent made because the shadow cabbal of endus convinced Justin Trudeau. Trudeau did it to win elections because people wanted it for a fucking decade lol.

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Yeah you would all go quiet now lol. Imagine going pages after pages claiming societal changes of anything requires no support of society what so ever. Activist are magic shamans in 2022.

[Endus]

Yeah you would all go quiet now lol. Imagine going pages after pages claiming societal changes of anything requires no support of society what so ever. Activist are magic shamans in 2022.

It got "quiet" because you got abusive and I have better things to do with my time than deal with someone who's going to resort to that. You're clearly not interested in open discussion, since you're not even dealing with what I actually said, just going off about "shadow cabals" or similar nonsense.