The Emerald Dream: an Expansion or a Patch?

[lockybalboa]

A glorified patch as always

[Mecheon]

Can you show some evidence that the Emerald Nightmare affects mortals' dreams? And druids not count, mind you, for obvious reasons.

This was actually mentioned as a thing in the novel that dealt with the whole Emerald Dream thing. Tons off people stuck in eternal nightmares due to Xavius doing Xavius things, not just druids

Mind, at the end off said book, the Nightmare was destroyed in its entirity (Except when they needed it brought back for Legion which, honestly, was a good decision as killing things ingame is better than in a novel)


I still reckon that Emerald Dream doesn't have enough meat on its bones for an expansion regardless, especially after the Nightmare's been defeated twice and the Dream's whole thing is "Hey there's no towns or anything around, so no capital cities, no factions to gain rep with, and you've killed the big threat to it already"

[Hobbidaggy]

Well, likely just a patch since we already had the Dreamway, the "nightmare", and Valsharah in Legion. Also, the Emerald dream was specific to Druids, not Dragons, so if we do get a patch for it, we'd likely only get a small history glimpse of the green dragonflight... Ysondre, Ysera... etc

The Emerald Dream has everything to do with Dragons hahaha

Druids weren’t around for thousands of years and Ysera was the keeper of the dream for that entire time. If you read War of the Ancients Malfurion (the first Druid) is learning about it all from Cenarius and has his first encounter with the Dream in the series to contact Ysera directly.

The Titans bound Ysera and the green flight to the Emerald Dream as its keepers so they are 100% embedded in the story more than Druids are (but druids are also heavily embedded, I’m not saying they aren’t)

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This was actually mentioned as a thing in the novel that dealt with the whole Emerald Dream thing. Tons off people stuck in eternal nightmares due to Xavius doing Xavius things, not just druids

Mind, at the end off said book, the Nightmare was destroyed in its entirity (Except when they needed it brought back for Legion which, honestly, was a good decision as killing things ingame is better than in a novel)


I still reckon that Emerald Dream doesn't have enough meat on its bones for an expansion regardless, especially after the Nightmare's been defeated twice and the Dream's whole thing is "Hey there's no towns or anything around, so no capital cities, no factions to gain rep with, and you've killed the big threat to it already"

Nope it wasn’t destroyed. There was a specific section that Malfurion said he could still feel it in the Rift of Aln.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Rift_of_Aln

It was never fully destroyed and it is also not fully destroyed now, if you complete the raid once Xavius is dead a ghostly form of Ysera walks into a cave and there is a “void flower” growing in there.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Remnant_of_the_Void

This will undoubtedly lead to the void still holding a very small, but enough, grip on the emerald dream to come back and infect it someway or another. The question is….did we kill Xavius or was he demon enough to go to the Twisting Nether and is slowly regenerating. He was a satyr after all created by Sargeras himself after Malfurion and essentially evaporated his elven body.

[username993720]

Can you show some evidence that the Emerald Nightmare affects mortals' dreams? And druids not count, mind you, for obvious reasons.

"During the events of the War Against the Nightmare, the Emerald Nightmare was almost able to take hold of the whole Emerald Dream and Azeroth at the same time trapping most of the most powerful heroes of the world in sleep reliving their nightmares."

There's a big difference between "this could happen" and "this will happen". One is a statement of possibility, the other is a statement of fact. You're taking the book as fact, not possibility.

There's no reason to seed things in lore unless you're gonna act on it. Only if there'd be backlash, they have the getaway card of "it was just a subjective opinion".

Nozdormu didn't seem to know about their existence, if memory serves.

The guy who can see all timelines and all possibilities? A weird choice...

"The dracthyr were ordered to the creches beneath the Forbidden Reach by Neltharion where they were sealed away by Malygos in magical stasis and watched over by his blue dragonflight."

It's not my opinion, but there's a decent number of players who say that the world revamp of Azeroth was a bad thing, isn't there?

I'm not talking about players' opinion. Your rejection of the Emerald Dream is due to "lore reasons". So, were there any clear violations of lore when they made these expansions?

None of that does. You're just naming random names as if they mean something. How about you explain how you think Zereth Mortis, the DF opening cinematic, and the Emerald Gardens point to what you claim they're pointing instead of just asserting they do?

The Emerald Dream references. Zereth Mortis is a cradle of Life, where prototype wildlife and flora are experimented with; the Dragonflight cinematic has many Emerald colors in it, from the Felstorm to the colors in the water and the moss that is growing on the Titanic Watcher, which is a reference to the statues found in the Emerald Dream testing zone. The Emerald Gardens are a clear reference to that place as it has a portal that leads there and the fact that the primalists are planning to invade that plane.

Shadowlands was a Death Knight connected expansion, for else we wouldn't be able to get there. The Emerald Nightmare is completely the same, heck, even more so, because it is specifically Druidic and Green Dragon connected, unlike Shadowlands which is also Loa, Shaman, Wild Gods, Night Elf, etc.

A Druidic-connected expansion, yes. But the whole place doesn't necessarily need to be Druidic in looks just like the Shadowlands is not all Maldraxxus or Revendreth. There could be a magical, physics-defying place in there, for example, similar to Alice in Wonderland.

But no? Emerald Dream is a blank of Azeroth, and the Nightmare is slowly consuming it. Thros has nothing to do with regret or hell or even Nightmare, it is a pathway just like the Dreamway, where the Drust found refuge.

Emerald Dream screams druidic content. And it would make more sense that we contain and push back, and then with assistance make a precision strike at the heart of the nightmare (again, it seems) if there is something feeding on the Dream.

The Drust would do theirs to keep the Nightmare away from them, and inadvertently, defend the Nightmare from getting to Shadowlands or Drustvar, or where ever else it connects.

The Succubuses and Incubus aren't from Thros, the Dream, or the Nightmare, they are Demons, and I believe they are connected to Outland? Are you thinking of the Satyr? The cursed Night Elves without a leader?

WoW, as we know, doesn't have layers of hell, we have realms of connection, and temptation and lust are Revendreth.

You are very close-minded, like lelenia. The Emerald Dream doesn't need to be Legion content all over again. Look at how they innovated the afterlives with Shadowlands. There aren't just deathly creatures around. Thos is not a simple pathway. It could be a whole domain, where trapped dreamers need to experience their bad life choices again and again just like Jaina in BfA. The reason i mention Succubuses and Incubuses is because in myth they are dream demons, preying on those who lust for sexual relations. Don't you find it a bit suspicious that a new Incubus model was introduced in patch 9.2 when it would have been more relevant in the Legion expansion, for example? Pick up on those small hints, would you...

I still reckon that Emerald Dream doesn't have enough meat on its bones for an expansion regardless, especially after the Nightmare's been defeated twice and the Dream's whole thing is "Hey there's no towns or anything around, so no capital cities, no factions to gain rep with, and you've killed the big threat to it already"

You don't know that it doesn't have any towns or factions. At the moment, it is just a an average place. Dedicate an entire expansion for it and you'd get yourself a whole new thing.

For example, "The East, home of Celephaïs, a city dreamt into being by its monarch Kuranes, greatest of all recorded dreamers, and the dangerous Forbidden Lands." - taken from H.P. Lovecraft's Dreamlands.

[Mecheon]

Nope it wasn’t destroyed. There was a specific section that Malfurion said he could still feel it in the Rift of Aln.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Rift_of_Aln

It was never fully destroyed and it is also not fully destroyed now, if you complete the raid once Xavius is dead a ghostly form of Ysera walks into a cave and there is a “void flower” growing in there.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Remnant_of_the_Void

This will undoubtedly lead to the void still holding a very small, but enough, grip on the emerald dream to come back and infect it someway or another. The question is….did we kill Xavius or was he demon enough to go to the Twisting Nether and is slowly regenerating. He was a satyr after all created by Sargeras himself after Malfurion and essentially evaporated his elven body.

Just from a storyline perspective, though? Its unsatisfying.

"Hey, remember that thing you killed a few expansions ago with a generally well received raid? Well, its back. Again" Now, look, I know we all kind of dump on Blizz's writing, but that is not great stuff.

An Emerald Dream expansion, where its the Nightmare (again) is going to inevitably have comparison to previous stuff, and anything that isn't the Nightmare is going to need massive pulling out of nowhere. This isn't like the Dragon Isles where we know basically nothing about the place, the Dream has been discussed a heap in the history. About the only "Hey remember that old thing?" I think they could get away with is a proper Black Empire expansion, but the Dream's narrow focus, even with the hint of future bad stuff and it growing into another thing, is always going to draw comparison to Legion.

You don't know that it doesn't have any towns or factions. At the moment, it is just a an average place. Dedicate an entire expansion for it and you'd get yourself a whole new thing.

For example, "The East, home of Celephaïs, a city dreamt into being by its monarch Kuranes, greatest of all recorded dreamers, and the dangerous Forbidden Lands." - taken from H.P. Lovecraft's Dreamlands.

The Dream's vibe has always been "Its Azeroth without civilisation ever having touched it". That's been its Thing since day 1. Having towns there defeats the purpose of it being the Emerald Dream, the untouched Azeroth

and, yeah, I know Lovecraft's Dreamlands. That's a very different thing involving space cats and ghouls.

[Lochton]

A Druidic-connected expansion, yes. But the whole place doesn't necessarily need to be Druidic in looks just like the Shadowlands is not all Maldraxxus or Revendreth. There could be a magical, physics-defying place in there, for example, similar to Alice in Wonderland.

Mate, the Emerald Dream is one massive savage forest of sustained life according to the Druids, a realm we cannot pass, without Druidic Magic or Dragons. It is described as just another plane of existence to them, and it is very restricting on who is permitted to go there.

You are very close-minded, like lelenia. The Emerald Dream doesn't need to be Legion content all over again.

No, you are just trying to twist out of loops. The Emerald Dream in Legion was NOT the Emerald Dream, it was the part of where the Nightmare resides, we were IN Aln. We have never touched what is secured as the Dream, and the only reason we could get to the Nightmare and Aln was that the Nightmare had seeped out into Val'sharah, and even then, the Druids and Dragons did not permit us to use their gateways until we were done and had to leave.

Look at how they innovated the afterlives with Shadowlands. There aren't just deathly creatures around.

But the Emerald Dream isn't built like the Shadowlands, it is a construct there to contain the world of Azeroth, some people believe it is meant to be ready incase someone successfully presses one of the many Titan reset buttons Azeroth scarily has. Shadowlands holds more purpose and traffic, while the Emerald Dream is a back, a realm on standby mode, only connected to other realms because of outside interference like Thros, which connects Shadowlands and the Dream and Azeroth but heavily protected by the Drust, who are NOT serving the Nightmare, or the Burning Legion - then you have the Nightmare which leeches on the Dream, and most likely is slowed now because we fucked up Xavious and his seat, the Rift of Aln, might connect to the Twisting Nether which we don't 100% know but there has to be a way that the Void can connect to the Dream to sustain the Nightmare.

Thos is not a simple pathway. It could be a whole domain, where trapped dreamers need to experience their bad life choices again and again just like Jaina in BfA.

Thros is by the sound of it, not a vast domain, it is a necessity to the Drust but it feels in lore more like a pathway as they attempt to get out and take control in Drustvar or Ardenweald, almost like the Nightmare is pushing in from another side, a little like a fire in a building, you flee away from the flames. It is most likely NOT connected to Dreamers due to the fact that we have had quests of stuck Dreamers who just talk about the Dream or the Nightmare, nothing more.

As for Jaina, she was exiled to Fate's End, an island once inhabited by the Drust, and now connects to Thros, as Jaina was sent there, she was captured by the Drust and dragged into Thros, where it is rumored that the Drust gets more of their members from overtime, as Kul Tiras has banished many prisoners to the island, a one-way ticket, none can flee without a tidesage. What we experienced through that questline is most likely the Drust playing into the cards that they finally have the control over a Proudmore member, and it is better to break her and turn her, than have her killed.

The reason i mention Succubuses and Incubuses is because in myth they are dream demons, preying on those who lust for sexual relations. Don't you find it a bit suspicious that a new Incubus model was introduced in patch 9.2 when it would have been more relevant in the Legion expansion, for example? Pick up on those small hints, would you...

Well, real life myth doesn't translate the same in the Warcraft universe. As well, the Incubus was added, finally, as it had been requested for a long time (I believe I saw a thread in Wrath?), and is literally only fan-service.

You don't know that it doesn't have any towns or factions. At the moment, it is just a an average place. Dedicate an entire expansion for it and you'd get yourself a whole new thing.

It does not have any towns, we know from NPCs, the only towns you would see, is created by the Nightmare, as it twists the realm into its whim to display or twist people's minds. As for factions, there's 3 main zones (For now) in the Dream, The Emerald Dream (Which is said to spand the same size as Azeroth), the Nightmare (Which is leeching on the Dream thanks to the Void Lords and Xavious), and Thros (Which connects to the Dream/Nightmare, a realm of Decay (Which is what the majority of the Drust is about)). Factions would be what? The Green Dragonflight (The Dreamers), the Druids, the Drust (In Thros, as there is no proof of them daring to set foot in the Dream or the Nightmare as we see good proof that it is easier for them to just go Ardenweald when it is weakened), the Wild Gods, and I guess the enemy faction of whatever the Nightmare corrupted druids are?

For example, "The East, home of Celephaïs, a city dreamt into being by its monarch Kuranes, greatest of all recorded dreamers, and the dangerous Forbidden Lands." - taken from H.P. Lovecraft's Dreamlands.

Except, that was dreamt up to be a city. The Emerald Dream is a titan construct that leans more in to be a backup in case Azeroth is reset.

[Nymrohd]

I always perceived the Dream as an ideal projected to the World Soul. If the desire of the Titans was to have Azeroth appear like the Dream version, we would have had far more facilities that would actively shape the way the planet looked and both the Keepers and then the Aspects would have opposed civilization. I.e. the Emerald Dream is meant to be Azeroth's Dream (and thus the Old Gods sought to turn it into a Nightmare so as to corrupt Azeroth). it is after all clear that Titans are creatures of conscience first and physical creatures second, what with them being able to survive in the form of souls for aeons and their bodies being shells formed from space detritus. So shaping their conscience (through the Dream) is likely more critical than shaping what is effectively a shell they will eventually discard.

Beyond that we know that the Dream is connected to the Dream of mortals (Stormrage novel), we know that people cannot normally move into the Dream physically, with the druids projecting a dream form there (their physical bodies remain in the barrows after all) and only the dream gates or rare magic (or the Green Dragonflight) allowing for people to move there physically. It is not unlikely that the first is not really intentional; if the Dream is meant to snare the conscience of the sleeping World Soul so as to help shape it, perhaps it snares the souls of all sleeping creatures in its vicinity.

[MrLachyG]

I feel it would be better as a patch. But a zone that we can explore. Nya'lotha would've been a lot better had it been a Throne of Thunder style zone and not just a raid, and the same goes for Emerald Dream

[Lochton]

I always perceived the Dream as an ideal projected to the World Soul. If the desire of the Titans was to have Azeroth appear like the Dream version, we would have had far more facilities that would actively shape the way the planet looked and both the Keepers and then the Aspects would have opposed civilization. I.e. the Emerald Dream is meant to be Azeroth's Dream (and thus the Old Gods sought to turn it into a Nightmare so as to corrupt Azeroth). it is after all clear that Titans are creatures of conscience first and physical creatures second, what with them being able to survive in the form of souls for aeons and their bodies being shells formed from space detritus. So shaping their conscience (through the Dream) is likely more critical than shaping what is effectively a shell they will eventually discard.

Beyond that we know that the Dream is connected to the Dream of mortals (Stormrage novel), we know that people cannot normally move into the Dream physically, with the druids projecting a dream form there (their physical bodies remain in the barrows after all) and only the dream gates or rare magic (or the Green Dragonflight) allowing for people to move there physically. It is not unlikely that the first is not really intentional; if the Dream is meant to snare the conscience of the sleeping World Soul so as to help shape it, perhaps it snares the souls of all sleeping creatures in its vicinity.

I've had a theory for a while ever since the World Soul topic was added. What if, the Dream is made, to replace the destruction there may come from the release of the World Soul? The Emerald Dream is, after all, a Titan construct undeveloped further than being the copy of Azeroth. So, when Azeroth cracks or is reset, they can deploy the Emerald Dream 'build'.

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I feel it would be better as a patch. But a zone that we can explore. Nya'lotha would've been a lot better had it been a Throne of Thunder style zone and not just a raid, and the same goes for Emerald Dream

Nya'lotha should have been a patch, to pump it full of high threat and elites, but still able to venture there.

[MrLachyG]

Nya'lotha should have been a patch, to pump it full of high threat and elites, but still able to venture there.

I agree! /10

[Nymrohd]

I've had a theory for a while ever since the World Soul topic was added. What if, the Dream is made, to replace the destruction there may come from the release of the World Soul? The Emerald Dream is, after all, a Titan construct undeveloped further than being the copy of Azeroth. So, when Azeroth cracks or is reset, they can deploy the Emerald Dream 'build'.

The thing is, then corrupting it doesn't really help the Void. They care about corrupting the world soul, not whatever remains after it is born.

[Lochton]

The thing is, then corrupting it doesn't really help the Void. They care about corrupting the world soul, not whatever remains after it is born.

It wasn't the Void's plan either. Yogg got access to it somehow but it was N'zoth who lead the charge on it the most, as Xavious was lead within and formed the corruption. A pure world is good for the void but the Dream is not readily available like the worlds in the Nether. Xavious is the main reason that the Nightmare spread so fast within the Dream, though, but that is rumored to be due to him hating all the Night Elves, even Staghelm.

[Nymrohd]

It wasn't the Void's plan either. Yogg got access to it somehow but it was N'zoth who lead the charge on it the most, as Xavious was lead within and formed the corruption. A pure world is good for the void but the Dream is not readily available like the worlds in the Nether. Xavious is the main reason that the Nightmare spread so fast within the Dream, though, but that is rumored to be due to him hating all the Night Elves, even Staghelm.

Again, why bother though? While in my hypothesis, damage to the Dream may well be the most effective way to corrupt the World Soul. My understanding is that their primary directive is to just DIG DEEP. Get their tendrils as deep as they can and reach the planet core which hosts the World Soul so they can corrupt it directly. Secondary is to deal as much damage to the shell as possible.
Let's compare to how Sargeras (and Zovaal) corrupted Argus. Sargeras largely shattered the shell and exposed the World Soul to direct manipulation (presumably how the Nathrezim altered its attunement to the plane of Death). The Old Gods are probably trying to do the same, they just don't nearly have the means and power that Sargeras had. But a sudden opportunity to assault the mind of the Soul directly would be unique.

[Varx]

The emerald dream, if it is content for DF, will be the mid expansion patch.

The void will probably come through the ED along with Sinestra as the aspect of void.

This is what's gonna push Nozzy over the edge to become Murozond.


Remember, he's the only one that can bring Yrel to our timeline to kick off 11.0. which is why he's the endboss.

Just listen to me, I called Dragon Isles while SL was in beta so I know what's up.

[Ielenia]

There's no reason to seed things in lore unless you're gonna act on it. Only if there'd be backlash, they have the getaway card of "it was just a subjective opinion".

Again: I can give you a laundry list of "things that were seeded" but nothing came out of it. And to make matters worse, "seeding" is nothing but hindsight. It only works when you look back at things.

The guy who can see all timelines and all possibilities? A weird choice...

I said I could be wrong, but that is what I recall off the top of my head from their starting zone.

I'm not talking about players' opinion. Your rejection of the Emerald Dream is due to "lore reasons". So, were there any clear violations of lore when they made these expansions?

You're literally talking about my opinion regarding what the developers did. That aside, Azeroth is still Azeroth. Outland is still Outland, and Draenor is still Draenor.

Zereth Mortis is a cradle of Life,

... A "cradle of life"... in the realm of death? You serious?

the Dragonflight cinematic has many Emerald colors in it, from the Felstorm to the colors in the water and the moss that is growing on the Titanic Watcher, which is a reference to the statues found in the Emerald Dream testing zone.

Reed Richards would feel muscle cramps if he stretched half as much as you are right now. Because we have moss and green dragons flying in the DF opening cinematic, it's a reference to the Emerald Dream? Please. Also, are you literally using a felstorm as a reference to the Emerald Dream?!

The Emerald Gardens are a clear reference to that place as it has a portal that leads there and the fact that the primalists are planning to invade that plane.

That doesn't mean anything. You're literally just "asserting" it does, because you haven't explained why "having a portal" and "primalists want to invade it" in any way, shape or form connects to the Emerald Dream.

[username993720]

The Dream's vibe has always been "Its Azeroth without civilisation ever having touched it". That's been its Thing since day 1. Having towns there defeats the purpose of it being the Emerald Dream, the untouched Azeroth

Not a civilization, necessarily. But, a place built by Malfurion while he spent time in the Dream.

and, yeah, I know Lovecraft's Dreamlands. That's a very different thing involving space cats and ghouls.

Well, apparently, Blizzard is pulling inspiration from that.

Mate, the Emerald Dream is one massive savage forest of sustained life according to the Druids, a realm we cannot pass, without Druidic Magic or Dragons. It is described as just another plane of existence to them, and it is very restricting on who is permitted to go there.

Sounds like the Shadowlands.

No, you are just trying to twist out of loops. The Emerald Dream in Legion was NOT the Emerald Dream, it was the part of where the Nightmare resides, we were IN Aln. We have never touched what is secured as the Dream, and the only reason we could get to the Nightmare and Aln was that the Nightmare had seeped out into Val'sharah, and even then, the Druids and Dragons did not permit us to use their gateways until we were done and had to leave.

Okay. So, you agree we haven't been fully to the Emerald Dream?

But the Emerald Dream isn't built like the Shadowlands, it is a construct there to contain the world of Azeroth, some people believe it is meant to be ready incase someone successfully presses one of the many Titan reset buttons Azeroth scarily has. Shadowlands holds more purpose and traffic, while the Emerald Dream is a back, a realm on standby mode, only connected to other realms because of outside interference like Thros, which connects Shadowlands and the Dream and Azeroth but heavily protected by the Drust, who are NOT serving the Nightmare, or the Burning Legion - then you have the Nightmare which leeches on the Dream, and most likely is slowed now because we fucked up Xavious and his seat, the Rift of Aln, might connect to the Twisting Nether which we don't 100% know but there has to be a way that the Void can connect to the Dream to sustain the Nightmare.

Look at how many things you've just mentioned. Hardly monotonous. I don't know if you're arguing or supporting.

Thros is by the sound of it, not a vast domain, it is a necessity to the Drust but it feels in lore more like a pathway as they attempt to get out and take control in Drustvar or Ardenweald, almost like the Nightmare is pushing in from another side, a little like a fire in a building, you flee away from the flames. It is most likely NOT connected to Dreamers due to the fact that we have had quests of stuck Dreamers who just talk about the Dream or the Nightmare, nothing more.

As for Jaina, she was exiled to Fate's End, an island once inhabited by the Drust, and now connects to Thros, as Jaina was sent there, she was captured by the Drust and dragged into Thros, where it is rumored that the Drust gets more of their members from overtime, as Kul Tiras has banished many prisoners to the island, a one-way ticket, none can flee without a tidesage. What we experienced through that questline is most likely the Drust playing into the cards that they finally have the control over a Proudmore member, and it is better to break her and turn her, than have her killed.

From what i can gather, it was just a sneak peek at what Thros could be. Think about it. If it is a pocket of the Emerald Nightmare, it means the Nightmare is not just red and Satyrs. It's other stuff as well.

Well, real life myth doesn't translate the same in the Warcraft universe. As well, the Incubus was added, finally, as it had been requested for a long time (I believe I saw a thread in Wrath?), and is literally only fan-service.

It has been asked since TBC. Legion was the prime moment to add it. Yet, they waited for patch 9.2 for some bizzare reason. It wasn't like the requests had become more frequent or that the creature was relevant to the content. They added it out of nowhere and much like mounts and battle pets, it could hint at future content.

It does not have any towns, we know from NPCs, the only towns you would see, is created by the Nightmare, as it twists the realm into its whim to display or twist people's minds. As for factions, there's 3 main zones (For now) in the Dream, The Emerald Dream (Which is said to spand the same size as Azeroth), the Nightmare (Which is leeching on the Dream thanks to the Void Lords and Xavious), and Thros (Which connects to the Dream/Nightmare, a realm of Decay (Which is what the majority of the Drust is about)). Factions would be what? The Green Dragonflight (The Dreamers), the Druids, the Drust (In Thros, as there is no proof of them daring to set foot in the Dream or the Nightmare as we see good proof that it is easier for them to just go Ardenweald when it is weakened), the Wild Gods, and I guess the enemy faction of whatever the Nightmare corrupted druids are?

You're using established lore, not expecting them to expand and develop it once an Emerald Dream expansion does come out. Did you know of the Kyrian faction of Shadowlands before the expansion? The Night Fae? The Maldraxxian? The Venthyr? No. It's new lore. Expect new lore with a new expansion. Don't rely on old lore to establish what the dream can or cannot have.

Except, that was dreamt up to be a city. The Emerald Dream is a titan construct that leans more in to be a backup in case Azeroth is reset.

This is told to your from the prespective of a Titan, which are known to confuse "created" with "shaped". They are biased and usually appropriate things to themselves.

The Dream, as it is named, is a dimension of dreams. It reflects different dream states much like Shadowlands is made of various afterlives.

Again: I can give you a laundry list of "things that were seeded" but nothing came out of it. And to make matters worse, "seeding" is nothing but hindsight. It only works when you look back at things.

So, you think we have no idea what's coming next?

I said I could be wrong, but that is what I recall off the top of my head from their starting zone.

Source?

You're literally talking about my opinion regarding what the developers did. That aside, Azeroth is still Azeroth. Outland is still Outland, and Draenor is still Draenor.

Meaning, it's okay to change things to spice things up. Something cannot remain the same for over 20 years.

... A "cradle of life"... in the realm of death? You serious?

Have you not seen all the plant life and robotic animals?

Reed Richards would feel muscle cramps if he stretched half as much as you are right now. Because we have moss and green dragons flying in the DF opening cinematic, it's a reference to the Emerald Dream? Please. Also, are you literally using a felstorm as a reference to the Emerald Dream?!

I've never mentioned green dragons.

And, here you go if you don't believe me. It's from my expansion speculation thread:

What's the color? Is it fel green or Emerald green?

Here's one from the Legion cinematic for comparison.


Remember these guys? They used to be thrown around in the Emerald Dream testing zone.

And, if it's not enough, there is the water around the Dragon Isles which project, you guessed it...Emerald colors.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ure-expansions

That doesn't mean anything. You're literally just "asserting" it does, because you haven't explained why "having a portal" and "primalists want to invade it" in any way, shape or form connects to the Emerald Dream.

Really? Can you not tell the obvious? Jeez... it's right there under your nose.

[Lochton]

Again, why bother though? While in my hypothesis, damage to the Dream may well be the most effective way to corrupt the World Soul. My understanding is that their primary directive is to just DIG DEEP. Get their tendrils as deep as they can and reach the planet core which hosts the World Soul so they can corrupt it directly. Secondary is to deal as much damage to the shell as possible.
Let's compare to how Sargeras (and Zovaal) corrupted Argus. Sargeras largely shattered the shell and exposed the World Soul to direct manipulation (presumably how the Nathrezim altered its attunement to the plane of Death). The Old Gods are probably trying to do the same, they just don't nearly have the means and power that Sargeras had. But a sudden opportunity to assault the mind of the Soul directly would be unique.

Only head theory of mine is that the Void Lords will have a seat right from the start once more, in case Azeroth is reset or cracked.

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Sounds like the Shadowlands.

Except Shadowlands were built as a processing center, meanwhile, the Emerald Dream as described by titan or dreamer, comes out more as a standby world of Azeroth.

Okay. So, you agree we haven't been fully to the Emerald Dream?

Well, duh, that is common knowledge? But you keep on forgetting the fact that the parts we have seen, are the ruined parts; the heart of the Nightmare, and a sliver of Thros. It is a realm that is even more restricted than Shadowlands.

Look at how many things you've just mentioned. Hardly monotonous. I don't know if you're arguing or supporting.

I never disagreed on Emerald Dream content, I am just disagreeing on a whole expansion within the Dream. As I've written in a different comment, to me, the best handling is to do like Molten Front and not base a whole expansion around it alone.

From what i can gather, it was just a sneak peek at what Thros could be. Think about it. If it is a pocket of the Emerald Nightmare, it means the Nightmare is not just red and Satyrs. It's other stuff as well.

But Thros is NOT part of the Nightmare? Or at least not currently in lore, it is its own interconnection of realms but as we experience from content, unlike the Nightmare, you don't have everything needed in Thros. As well, unlike the Nightmare, Thros has VERY FEW connection points; the tree in Drustvar, and Fate's End are two of them, the others are to other realms.

It has been asked since TBC. Legion was the prime moment to add it. Yet, they waited for patch 9.2 for some bizzare reason. It wasn't like the requests had become more frequent or that the creature was relevant to the content. They added it out of nowhere and much like mounts and battle pets, it could hint at future content.

Mate, if you've played WoW enough, then you know shit sometimes doesn't get added until they literally feel like it. Yeah, they use the excuse of "fitting the content" but that is bullshit, and we know it.

You're using established lore, not expecting them to expand and develop it once an Emerald Dream expansion does come out. Did you know of the Kyrian faction of Shadowlands before the expansion? The Night Fae? The Maldraxxian? The Venthyr? No. It's new lore. Expect new lore with a new expansion. Don't rely on old lore to establish what the dream can or cannot have.

Yes, of course I am using established lore because unlike Shadowlands, the Emerald Dream had thousands of mentions, "visions"/"descriptions" and connections to lore, unlike Shadowlands, Emerald Dream content wouldn't be able to be ignored because it is connected to Azeroth. It is already established.

This is told to your from the prespective of a Titan, which are known to confuse "created" with "shaped". They are biased and usually appropriate things to themselves.

I am guessing that is mentioned in one of the chronicles books? If so, yeah, we knew that BEFORE the book as well, that it was a creation of the titans, though we, the druids, nor the dragons know what the shit is for. My original theory is that it is a template, a standby mode, and a backup in case Azeroth is cracked or 'reset' (since we insanely enough have multiple facilities built to the plot of 'resetting' Azeroth like some Forerunner plot.

The Dream, as it is named, is a dimension of dreams. It reflects different dream states much like Shadowlands is made of various afterlives.

The Dream is a construct that commonly is connected to via deep controlled dreams by the Green Dragonflight (the others unable to do so), or Druidic races. Visions can be granted from it, and descriptions shared of it. We have the Dreamway which is a sheltered connection within the Emerald Dream, slowly getting corrupted. You have the Dream portals from the Dreamway, as well as out in Azeroth, as well as the core of the world trees in which the Nightmare can creep out.

If shit is going down in the Emerald Dream, then it won't be through the Dream we'll find out but when it is too late. The corruption has been going on for so long yet we are hardly ever queued in on it unless it is out of the handler's reach in the first place, and considering how bad the corruption is to the Dreamway, we're certain that we won't get a call before it is in our world again. That is why an expansion with the Emerald Dream/Nightmare as a keynote is great but not as the main stay 'realm'/world to play in. Better story progression and development if the corruption creeps out around the world, and those zones are updated for such and added more to it, and then after questlines within the zones have been done, you unlock end-content where you then are to play until the first patch (1st) where the Dragons/Druids stop being so 'up-theirs' that they permit us within the Dream to assist in handling the issue that they have let fester for far too long. And then the second patch (2nd) hits where you realize that across the Nightmare, the Drust is making their own stand against it from Thros, fighting from their side, developing a split faction within them of friendly Drust Vs. hostile Drust (as we already know that not all Drust wishes evil or decay), then when the third patch (3rd)hits, we then enter the Rift of Aln once more where we disconnect the Emerald Dream/Nightmare from the Void/Nether once and for all - maybe have some void/nature/Nightmare dungeons there. At the end patch (4th or pre-patch for next expansion) we are informed that the Dragons and Druidic races are going to continue the cleansing but they will bestow us their blessing to permit us to use a few specific Dream portals.

[username993720]

Except Shadowlands were built as a processing center, meanwhile, the Emerald Dream as described by titan or dreamer, comes out more as a standby world of Azeroth.

It could be old lore by now. The two are dimensions opposite of each other on the cosmic map.

I never disagreed on Emerald Dream content, I am just disagreeing on a whole expansion within the Dream. As I've written in a different comment, to me, the best handling is to do like Molten Front and not base a whole expansion around it alone.

Well. That's where you and i differ. I believe it has potential for a whole expansion.

But Thros is NOT part of the Nightmare? Or at least not currently in lore, it is its own interconnection of realms but as we experience from content, unlike the Nightmare, you don't have everything needed in Thros. As well, unlike the Nightmare, Thros has VERY FEW connection points; the tree in Drustvar, and Fate's End are two of them, the others are to other realms.

"As the war went on, the desperate Drust called onto dark powers. Unbeknownst to them, they had reached the Emerald Nightmare. Their fallen warriors would find refuge in Thros, an offshoot of the Nightmare which they named differently as they were not aware of what the Nightmare was."

Mate, if you've played WoW enough, then you know shit sometimes doesn't get added until they literally feel like it. Yeah, they use the excuse of "fitting the content" but that is bullshit, and we know it.

Are you not aware of certain mounts hinting at future content which are added with no relation to anything?

Yes, of course I am using established lore because unlike Shadowlands, the Emerald Dream had thousands of mentions, "visions"/"descriptions" and connections to lore, unlike Shadowlands, Emerald Dream content wouldn't be able to be ignored because it is connected to Azeroth. It is already established.

Which could become irrelevant in an instant, or at least only be a small part of a whole.

I am guessing that is mentioned in one of the chronicles books? If so, yeah, we knew that BEFORE the book as well, that it was a creation of the titans, though we, the druids, nor the dragons know what the shit is for. My original theory is that it is a template, a standby mode, and a backup in case Azeroth is cracked or 'reset' (since we insanely enough have multiple facilities built to the plot of 'resetting' Azeroth like some Forerunner plot.

We assume that what we know is true. In reality, it is unlikely that Freya created that place and that it is what the Titans tell us it is.

The Dream is a construct that commonly is connected to via deep controlled dreams by the Green Dragonflight (the others unable to do so), or Druidic races. Visions can be granted from it, and descriptions shared of it. We have the Dreamway which is a sheltered connection within the Emerald Dream, slowly getting corrupted. You have the Dream portals from the Dreamway, as well as out in Azeroth, as well as the core of the world trees in which the Nightmare can creep out.

If shit is going down in the Emerald Dream, then it won't be through the Dream we'll find out but when it is too late. The corruption has been going on for so long yet we are hardly ever queued in on it unless it is out of the handler's reach in the first place, and considering how bad the corruption is to the Dreamway, we're certain that we won't get a call before it is in our world again. That is why an expansion with the Emerald Dream/Nightmare as a keynote is great but not as the main stay 'realm'/world to play in. Better story progression and development if the corruption creeps out around the world, and those zones are updated for such and added more to it, and then after questlines within the zones have been done, you unlock end-content where you then are to play until the first patch (1st) where the Dragons/Druids stop being so 'up-theirs' that they permit us within the Dream to assist in handling the issue that they have let fester for far too long. And then the second patch (2nd) hits where you realize that across the Nightmare, the Drust is making their own stand against it from Thros, fighting from their side, developing a split faction within them of friendly Drust Vs. hostile Drust (as we already know that not all Drust wishes evil or decay), then when the third patch (3rd)hits, we then enter the Rift of Aln once more where we disconnect the Emerald Dream/Nightmare from the Void/Nether once and for all - maybe have some void/nature/Nightmare dungeons there. At the end patch (4th or pre-patch for next expansion) we are informed that the Dragons and Druidic races are going to continue the cleansing but they will bestow us their blessing to permit us to use a few specific Dream portals.

You are just repeating previous stuff.
Dreams are not all soothing or scary. There are depressive dreams, exciting dreams, magical dreams, sexual ones. That means that the Emerald Dream and Nightmare are possibly not all the dream has to offer.

[Lochton]

It could be old lore by now. The two are dimensions opposite of each other on the cosmic map.

Well, both are constructs except Shadowlands is cosmic connected, and the Emerald Dream is connected to Azeroth, unless there is an Emerald Dream in each section but then the question is, where is the Winter Queen's Emerald Dream? It isn't Ardenweald, unless the world her Dream was meant to connect to doesn't exist anymore.

Well. That's where you and i differ. I believe it has potential for a whole expansion.

Whelp, agree to disagree.

"As the war went on, the desperate Drust called onto dark powers. Unbeknownst to them, they had reached the Emerald Nightmare. Their fallen warriors would find refuge in Thros, an offshoot of the Nightmare which they named differently as they were not aware of what the Nightmare was."

Chronicles? Ain't got access to that, just running on what the majority is in the game. As well, the Drust, even as you name it, doesn't know what the Nightmare is, nor is their realm described as being off the nightmare, you can still be connected without being within the nightmare.

Are you not aware of certain mounts hinting at future content which are added with no relation to anything?

Mounts, yeah, but we've also had mounts that didn't hunt at future content, we've had pets that didn't hint, we've hand THOUSANDS of models that didn't hunt at future content.

Which could become irrelevant in an instant, or at least only be a small part of a whole.

But as it is now, it is not, it is still quite relevant.

We assume that what we know is true. In reality, it is unlikely that Freya created that place and that it is what the Titans tell us it is.

Mate, if titans can shape Azeroth, and Draenor, and the Shadowlands, then titans can shape the Emerald Dream too. Easily. They are, at the current, the 2nd most powerful race we know of.

You are just repeating previous stuff.

Yes, because what I listed is what I, you know, personal opinions, believe is the best way considering the proof we've hand through so many expansions.

Dreams are not all soothing or scary. There are depressive dreams, exciting dreams, magical dreams, sexual ones. That means that the Emerald Dream and Nightmare are possibly not all the dream has to offer.

The Emerald Dream has never been depicted as fairytale-like, or such, all Druids and Dragons have seen the same thing, a wild world, and corruption creeping in. There is nothing that currently connects the Emerald Dream to some harem dream, indulgence, etc.

[Ielenia]

So, you think we have no idea what's coming next?

You're confusing "having an idea" with "knowing with certainty". What's written on that book, about the musings of a broker regarding the possibility of a 'pantheon of life', in no way, shape or form translates into factual "yes, the pantheon of life exists as a fact".

Source?

The evoker's starting zone.

Meaning, it's okay to change things to spice things up. Something cannot remain the same for over 20 years.

Would Stormwind still be Stormwind if, instead of buildings of stone, it was buildings of wood. Instead of sitting in Elwynn Forest, it was sitting on the Desolace zone, and instead of being inhabited by humans, it was inhabited by centaur? I don't think you would say "it's still Stormwind".

Again, to reiterate: the Emerald Dream lacks the diversity and expanse required to become the setting of an expansion. The entire place is just "lush, green forests" which don't lend itself to the kind of variety of locales one expects from an expansion. Which is why I and many others are saying that, at best, the Emerald Dream fits as a mid-expansion content patch zone, like Isle of Thunder, or Argus, or Korthia.

Have you not seen all the plant life and robotic animals?

Which in no way shape or form connects to the Emerald Dream.

What's the color? Is it fel green or Emerald green?

That is fel green. That is obviously fel green. Because the Dragon Isles was closed off during the Sundering. And what happened during the Sundering? Demons invaded en masse.

And moss growing on stone in no way, shape or form symbolizes the Emerald Dream. Please stop reaching.

Really? Can you not tell the obvious? Jeez... it's right there under your nose.

Except it's not obvious. You're making connections that don't exist. Come on, if it's so "obvious", you shouldn't have much trouble explaining it, now should you?

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Mate, if titans can shape Azeroth, and Draenor, and the Shadowlands, then titans can shape the Emerald Dream too. Easily. They are, at the current, the 2nd most powerful race we know of.

Despite what he says, Freya, a creation of the Titans, was the one who created the Emerald Dream.