So now that SL is over, what were the mistakes made during SL.

[Thes]

- Torghast
- Covenants, legendaries
- Not getting the fucking tier set pieces until I could craft full 4 set with creation catalyst. Makes pvp complete ass when someone has a full set and you have like 1 piece. Too much power disparity.

Other than that it wasn't that bad of an expansion.

[Zyky]

What do you consider mistakes from the dev team/Blizz?

Literally everything about Shadowlands, everything about BFA, everything about Legion, and everything about WoD

[Biomega]

- Not getting the fucking tier set pieces until I could craft full 4 set with creation catalyst. Makes pvp complete ass when someone has a full set and you have like 1 piece. Too much power disparity.

This has been a common complaint, and it makes total sense. And now they're doubling down on it by AGAIN delaying the catalyst massively, and their stated reason is "tier should come from raiding first and foremost, and we want people to raid; PvPers and M+ers only care about end-of-season performance anyway so who cares if the first few weeks suck" - which I personally find rather insulting, but oh well.

[Kehego]

This has been a common complaint, and it makes total sense. And now they're doubling down on it by AGAIN delaying the catalyst massively, and their stated reason is "tier should come from raiding first and foremost, and we want people to raid; PvPers and M+ers only care about end-of-season performance anyway so who cares if the first few weeks suck" - which I personally find rather insulting, but oh well.

the truth always offends, friend

tier is for raiding, tier is from raiding.

[Biomega]

tier is for raiding, tier is from raiding.

But tier isn't "for raiding" anymore. It's used in M+, and even in PvP.

So that "truth" of yours, friend, isn't true at all

[Kehego]

But tier isn't "for raiding" anymore. It's used in M+, and even in PvP.

So that "truth" of yours, friend, isn't true at all

well, when you see tier drop from M+ we'll argue otherwise.

have fun waiting your 6 weeks

[loras]

What do you consider mistakes from the dev team/Blizz?

I'll just list some of the bigger ones that spring to mind.
- Most of the (main)story
- Execution of legendary crafting
- Power systems being scattered all over the place
- Itemlevel dictating matches in pvp
- There not really being a point to doing regular battlegrounds / unrated pvp
- Music was remarkably weak, maldraxxus was just offensively moronic from concept ho execution
- Torghast simultanously being too unrewarding yet being mandatory nonetheless
- Mission tables, invasions, callings, etc. just being worse versions of past systems despite doing essentially the same in a more contrived way
- Conduits, seriously?

Even the summary of its failures is already too long.

[Athorha]

I think not letting us know the runecarver was the primus right away was a huge mistake. Absolutely terrible writing.
I think covenants would've been more interesting if legendaries went from covenant only in t1 - > class specific available in tier 2 - > both at once in t3.
At the start of the expansion most specs had 1 covenant which pulled so far ahead, although I will say that the community is to blame for caring so much about 5-10% differences under perfect conditions. RF bear was fun in t1, condemn was fun in t1, even blessing of summer pre legendary was an interesting build if you grouped with the right burst classes.

[bledgor]

The fact that it took the midway point of the expansion to get rid of something as universally derided as Conduit Energy is an even more egregious mistake.

See the funny thing is, literally no one I know of ever had any issues with it. I see this brought up a lot and literally the only time I could see it being annoying is if you pvp'd at a decent level and did raid or M+, but if you didn't pvp it is such a non issue.

[WowIsDead64]

Well that's a change. Usually Blizzard made bad content, saw that players don't engage with that piece of content, and then found a way to force players to engage with it.

They were doing it in bad xpacks only. Like MOP for example, where players didn't like gating usual rewards behind rep grinds, but Blizzard added more ways to grind reps instead of completely removing rep-gating. In good xpacks, like Legion for example, bad content was nerfed with time and made good enough.

[Relapses]

See the funny thing is, literally no one I know of ever had any issues with it. I see this brought up a lot and literally the only time I could see it being annoying is if you pvp'd at a decent level and did raid or M+, but if you didn't pvp it is such a non issue.

It was a system that had zero upsides and only presented a massive fucking downside if you ever had to contend with it. It was demonstrative of Blizzard's war on loadouts and screamed, "we know how to play the game better than you, trust us!"

[Forteofgray]

The only thing that really bothered me was how they forced us to go through the entire campaign before world quests and other stuff appeared. I hated it, it bored me to sleep. Getting through it felt like a chore. When they added the ability to skip the story on alts, I was pretty happy with it. It felt way better being able to go where I wanted and just run around doing world quests. Then they removed the skip because they don't listen to people. I realized this yesterday when I brought an alt through to SL and looked up how to access the skip, because I couldn't find it this time. When I saw they removed it, I decided never to return to the Shadowlands content for leveling purposes again.

[bledgor]

It was a system that had zero upsides and only presented a massive fucking downside if you ever had to contend with it. It was demonstrative of Blizzard's war on loadouts and screamed, "we know how to play the game better than you, trust us!"

I don't know, it was such a non issue from everything I heard. I think it was massively conflated/whined about, a complete non issue for me compared to some other things in SL.

Personally the biggest issues for me in shadowlands was the pacing of content/patch cycle, some of the bugs/tuning (I still hate lower kara/never wanted to do it because of early weeks of season 4), and some of the raid fights. Kel'thuzad was such a boring fight, I hated fate scribe, Slyvannas was also like 4 minutes to long. CN was pretty good minus generals, and SoFO I both hated and enjoyed Rygelon.

Oh also didn't like/care for the zones being separated as they were, having to take a long flight path to each zone through Oribos sucked ass.

[Sableye]

Torghast was a great idea, was fun but did not offer any progression yet was also required for legendaries and nothing else and then they added timed progression which fucking sucked to limp your way through it only to get nothing

Reps were OK, and the story guides worked very well.

Covanents and soulbinds were just another talent tree, the new talent tree is soulbinds

anima as a universal resource was a good idea, the very small amounts granted from everything except raiding and m+ fucking sucked, I was not able to get basically any of the covanent stuff bought because of the inability to ever have enough anima to buy anything, on top of that progression in the covanents didn't give you more anima unlike legion which DID, YOU GUYS ALREADY HAD THE SOLUTION! Whats more as the expansion progressed it absolutely made sense lore wise for the anima rewards to increase but they never really did, and the meta achievement to boost anima gain was pitiful and as a catch up mechanic it should not be gated behind a meta achievement anyways

Alts were good but again the anima grind made it difficult to juggle multiple alts and also progress and get any anima for progression

faction specific abilities were interesting, though for some classes they were more essential than others. Again they seem to have taken this lesson to the talent trees as there's some wiggle room in the new talents

Ok Onto the Maw. I actually liked the idea of a daily quest zone you couldn't spend a lot of time in, it never felt too punishing and the upgrades were worth the grind. I would love to see something like this again, maybe like a primal storm that builds while you're in a zone until you have to leave or take shelter. I think the zone was good, if a bit of a reskin of Argus, but as a zone to place a lot of important events I think it worked. It was like the Broken Shore for Shadowlands, and I hope they try more of this gated dynamic sort of zone in the future

[Relapses]

I don't know, it was such a non issue from everything I heard. I think it was massively conflated/whined about, a complete non issue for me compared to some other things in SL.

I think, for me, the issue was less the feature itself and how it was reflective of a particularly blatant form of "we know better" game design which Blizzard has done a complete 180 on in DF.

[lockybalboa]

In your view? perhaps. Objectively Legion was one of the best and most succesful expansions we have had. If you have followed the news about wow you would realise that blizzard is making major design shifts in DF compared to the last three expansions. So it almost seems in bad faith to just act like its not the case. You could also just be uninformed but then why even speak on the subject.

We had 2 consecutive shitfests in BFA and SL. And looking at the amount of bugs this close to launch and the "new" systems that are nothing but the same old shit being reskinned and renamed just to hoodwink unthinking people like you. You can have fun with your new "expac" but I aint touching it with a ten foot pole. And I'd bet at the end of DF you like the other fanboys would say "oooooh this expac might be shite AGAIN but Ion has learnt his lesson so let's forget about this expansion and look forward to the next expac because Ion and his boys have reaallly learnt their lesson this time" lmao. People like you would just gobble whatever nonsense they churn out expac after expac which is why the devs do not bother anymore. Who cares about improvement as long as the marketing and hype is good enough to hoodwink people into buying their snake oil every time.

[Ropeway]

What do you consider mistakes from the dev team/Blizz?

Turning death and afterlife into a theme park adventure.

[Pakheth]

I think not letting us know the runecarver was the primus right away was a huge mistake. Absolutely terrible writing.

I hope you are being sarcastic about the Runecarver thing, because it was so glaringly obvious they were the same person from the start. Me and my friends called it very early on through SL and countless forum posters did the same. Of the writing that part was the least offender.

[Caiphon]

Lorewise everything was a complete disaster. Having Arthas' soul consumed in the Anduin fight, Uther forsaking everything he was and basically becoming a free lawyer for Sylvanas, Sylvanas chilling with ther boyfriend in the Maw while Arthas and Garrosh get their souls obliterated (it's like the Warcraft universe operates on some weird elven girl privilege), every major event from WotLK to BfA becoming part of Bald Man's 4D chess keikaku, the redundancy of the First Ones (literally just Titans from vanilla bumped up by an order of magnitude)... I swear the best lore moment in SL was when we decided to leave it for good.

[Sableye]

Lorewise everything was a complete disaster. Having Arthas' soul consumed in the Anduin fight, Uther forsaking everything he was and basically becoming a free lawyer for Sylvanas, Sylvanas chilling with ther boyfriend in the Maw while Arthas and Garrosh get their souls obliterated (it's like the Warcraft universe operates on some weird elven girl privilege), every major event from WotLK to BfA becoming part of Bald Man's 4D chess keikaku, the redundancy of the First Ones (literally just Titans from vanilla bumped up by an order of magnitude)... I swear the best lore moment in SL was when we decided to leave it for good.

the only bright spots were the couple interactions with characters like Ysara and Thrall, the Ardenweld campaign and Revendreth campaigns were good, and Garrosh getting 1 last shot to prove he's the absolute worst