Leaving M+ group should give you DESERTER

[Biomega]

Which spec in the game needs to spend 1 hour on assembling a team manually, but can queue for a team automatically in 2 minutes?

Doesn't matter to the larger point. It happens automatically. Even if it's a 1-hour wait it's 1 hour of you not needing to do anything. But in any event, it's likely to be much lower because not only would an automated queue make more people play in general, it would also make specs that aren't matter get into groups far more quickly because there is no meta discrimination.

[Tech614]

Incorp was NOT fixed for warriors. It has a 3 minute cooldown

Wrong, Intimidating Shout(the ST affect of it, which is different from the AOE part) already worked on incorp and the hot fix for shattering throw was just so you have something if they spawned while shout was on CD and no other party member had something for one. Unless you're stacking the fuck out of Wars in the group you shouldn't even need to talent both of these.

Anyone but an Unholy DK bitching about incorp at this point is hysterical.

[neescher]

Wrong, Intimidating Shout(the ST affect of it, which is different from the AOE part) already worked on incorp and the hot fix for shattering throw was just so you have something if they spawned while shout was on CD and no other party member had something for one. Unless you're stacking the fuck out of Wars in the group you shouldn't even need to talent both of these.

Anyone but an Unholy DK bitching about incorp at this point is hysterical.

Intimidating Shout is just as useless. Just like Shattering Throw, the cooldown is too long to handle an incorporeal every single wave, so you STILL need 2 others to deal with it. At that point, again, it's pointless to put TWO points into the talent, a talent which by the way can pull unwanted adds because it's a knockback, and even wipe your group. In the best case scenario, it "only" knocks everything back so your group's cleave damage gets absolutely gimped.

So yeah, warrior is still useless agaisnt incorporeal. Unless you want them to spend 3 talent points, then completely destroy the group's aoe damage potential on every wave, and maybe even wipe the group by pulling additional mobs. There is absolutely 0 reason to let a warrior handle incorps. If your group has one open slot and you still need somebody to handle incorp, do NOT take a warrior.

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Doesn't matter to the larger point. It happens automatically. Even if it's a 1-hour wait it's 1 hour of you not needing to do anything. But in any event, it's likely to be much lower because not only would an automated queue make more people play in general, it would also make specs that aren't matter get into groups far more quickly because there is no meta discrimination.

You're forgetting the fact that as a tank or healer there is zero incentive to even use the system, because you have a free choice of groups already. They'd have to double and triple the "Call to Arms" bonus for tanks and healers to even consider queueing up for m+. As a healer, why would I ever use a queue system to play a low/medium m+, when I can just open the group list, filter by groups that have a tank and 3 dps in the group already, and I get an instant invite (unless you're seriously undergeared). It takes me literally 5 seconds to have a full group as a healer when I'm doing something like +11s to +15s, and I can see beforehand which classes are in the group.

[froschhure]

Leaving m+ run should not lower the group leaders keystone. Deranking should only happen when you dont play for a long time.

But since this would be too nice to have, they decided to make us suffer

[Relapses]

Leaving m+ run should not lower the group leaders keystone. Deranking should only happen when you dont play for a long time.

But since this would be too nice to have, they decided to make us suffer

Problem with removing downranking is you'll end up with people who buy 20s on their fresh item level 370 alts who will then demand that they get their key carried. It'd make PuGing even more difficult than it is already. You'd suffer much more under a system without downranking.

[czarek]

Problem with removing downranking is you'll end up with people who buy 20s on their fresh item level 370 alts who will then demand that they get their key carried. It'd make PuGing even more difficult than it is already. You'd suffer much more under a system without downranking.

Why? Just dont downrank they key when dung is unfinished and thats it. If you didnt finish no impact on ur key. Still no progress and no loot for anybody.

[Tech614]

At that point, again, it's pointless to put TWO points into the talent, a talent which by the way can pull unwanted adds because it's a knockback, and even wipe your group. In the best case scenario, it "only" knocks everything back so your group's cleave damage gets absolutely gimped.

It's pretty clear you don't play M+ much at all(or certainly not at any respectable level) since most incorp 1) don't even spawn in the pull and 2) an aoe knockback is a useful stop that you should be talenting anyways and it's hilarious you think it's bad for the group. Do you even talent shockwave at this point or do you think AOE stops just aren't your problem and your only purpose is to "dps go brrrr healer please heal all that avoidable damage I could of stopped". Unless you're in a fully established group that you know has all stops covered these are things to have anyways lmao.

[Soon-TM]

Make it a vote function to end the key. Majority voted to end the run? Run ends and nobody gets debuff

This might work if all players' roles were interchangeable. But in this proposed scenario, the tank (for example) might very well hold the group hostage to force a vote.

[thunderdragon2]

This might work if all players' roles were interchangeable. But in this proposed scenario, the tank (for example) might very well hold the group hostage to force a vote.

sadly thats true i just had such a situation, was in a halls 20 earlier by no near a perfect run we wiped on the gauntlet to last 2 mins left on the clock tank abandoned his key coz it wasnt timed despite the fast the rest fo us wanted to finish it

[kamuimac]

sadly thats true i just had such a situation, was in a halls 20 earlier by no near a perfect run we wiped on the gauntlet to last 2 mins left on the clock tank abandoned his key coz it wasnt timed despite the fast the rest fo us wanted to finish it

ye well you should have joined a completion key then . or ask owner of key if he will sty if overtime.

start commnicating.

"standard" when group forming means that its under assumption that key will be timed.

join "completion " group next time.

[Ealyssa]

Why? Just dont downrank they key when dung is unfinished and thats it. If you didnt finish no impact on ur key. Still no progress and no loot for anybody.

They would create waaaay more leaver…
People would just leave at the first hint their key may be untimed just to not derank them.

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Why? Just dont downrank they key when dung is unfinished and thats it. If you didnt finish no impact on ur key. Still no progress and no loot for anybody.

They would create waaaay more leaver…
People would just leave at the first hint their key may be untimed just to not derank them.

[Danvash]

These threads keep coming up over and over.

1. Nobody is entitled to having other people play with them when they don't want to.

2. Penalties for leaving a dungeon would be extremely toxic and trap people there when they don't want to play.

3. It would lead to trolling and afks.

The real solution is to just drop the key and try again. At the higher level, it's normal to start again after a wipe.

Do keys with friends who won't leave.

Join keys advertised as completion or no leavers. People usually stick to their word on those unless someone is so incompetent it's impossible.

There are a lot of players who can't do 20s. They've been playing the game for years and haven't made any improvements in their gameplay. And yet they feel entitled to other people's keys and time so they can get vault slots. Literally a free boost. That's more toxic than anyone leaving a key.

[Zyky]

It's always a world of trade-offs. But being realistic, you don't NEED to take into account comp or utility for any but the highest of keys. For the rest, random chance is enough coverage, and it'd be extraordinarily unlikely to get a setup that literally doesn't work - if not outright impossible. Sure this would fall off if people are doing +25s or whatever, but chances are that on that level people wouldn't be using this kind of tool anyway so the point is moot.

In a perfect world you're correct, it shouldn't matter what a comp is. The reality though is that 90% of groups refuse to take non-meta specs. I'm literally KSH for every season, multi-Gladiator, multi-HoF CE raider, but it regularly takes me 60-90 minutes to find a group, despite already having the key completed at a higher level than the levels I'm applying for. The community has grown increasingly toxic over the last few expansions regarding meta comps and Blizzard is partially to blame for this making nonsense like requiring poison dispells or nerfing drums so that every group requires a lust class. There's also just some classes that have little utility and almost nobody takes them, lets just say I'm thankful that I don't play a DK because that would make it so much worse.

[Cynical Asshole]

Don't see the point. As a dps at least, you spent equal or slightly more than 30 min until you actually get to enter the next dungeon. So for dps at least the deserter debuff would be irrelevant.

[thunderdragon2]

ye well you should have joined a completion key then . or ask owner of key if he will sty if overtime.

start commnicating.

"standard" when group forming means that its under assumption that key will be timed.

join "completion " group next time.

thats for the grp leader to communicate to us not the other way around

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In a perfect world you're correct, it shouldn't matter what a comp is. The reality though is that 90% of groups refuse to take non-meta specs. I'm literally KSH for every season, multi-Gladiator, multi-HoF CE raider, but it regularly takes me 60-90 minutes to find a group, despite already having the key completed at a higher level than the levels I'm applying for. The community has grown increasingly toxic over the last few expansions regarding meta comps and Blizzard is partially to blame for this making nonsense like requiring poison dispells or nerfing drums so that every group requires a lust class. There's also just some classes that have little utility and almost nobody takes them, lets just say I'm thankful that I don't play a DK because that would make it so much worse.

my issue wiht meta specs are with things like the mdi great push and awc, if we didnt have these parading the same class/spec combos all over the place there wouldnt be such a thing as "meta and non meta" for m+ and arena

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Don't see the point. As a dps at least, you spent equal or slightly more than 30 min until you actually get to enter the next dungeon. So for dps at least the deserter debuff would be irrelevant.

in this case the deserter buff would last way longer tan 30 mins think a2-3hrs to start with stacking and itll be account wide so you cant escape it by just switching toons either than or you can switch but the duration wont tick down while your offline

what i really want to know is why people seem to be terified of ot timing a key

[Sialina]

In a perfect world you're correct, it shouldn't matter what a comp is. The reality though is that 90% of groups refuse to take non-meta specs. I'm literally KSH for every season, multi-Gladiator, multi-HoF CE raider, but it regularly takes me 60-90 minutes to find a group, despite already having the key completed at a higher level than the levels I'm applying for. The community has grown increasingly toxic over the last few expansions regarding meta comps and Blizzard is partially to blame for this making nonsense like requiring poison dispells or nerfing drums so that every group requires a lust class. There's also just some classes that have little utility and almost nobody takes them, lets just say I'm thankful that I don't play a DK because that would make it so much worse.

I nearly always host my own key if I pug, and if someone applies to the group with lower score/gear than the others, but they whisper me and they tell me something like "I've played to over 2500 rating every season, I know the dungeon and the trash mechanics, I'll fking blast the dps meters" Then I usually take them, and it's always worked out great.

If you really are better than the rest of the applicants, let the leader know, it's worth taking someone 430 for your 20 key over someone at 441 if I know they are very competent.

my issue wiht meta specs are with things like the mdi great push and awc, if we didnt have these parading the same class/spec combos all over the place there wouldnt be such a thing as "meta and non meta" for m+ and arena

Wrong, meta starts to form from day 1 in any competitive game. There is no single youtube channel, twitch stream, competition, scoring system or site that makes the meta form.

Take a look at the last 2 weeks in the paladin/druid/DH tank discords, you'll see the discussion going from "Paladin tanks are too OP" to "Why does Paladin tanks suck now?" and all that happened was that a DH and a druid managed to get spot 1 and 2.

You can't stop people from trying to get a meta comp, but as an off meta class, all you need to do is show up with a better resume and people will take you. If they see that mistweaver monk with 2800 score, and they are picking between that and a druid or paladin healer, with 2650, you will get invited for 100% sure.

[thunderdragon2]

I nearly always host my own key if I pug, and if someone applies to the group with lower score/gear than the others, but they whisper me and they tell me something like "I've played to over 2500 rating every season, I know the dungeon and the trash mechanics, I'll fking blast the dps meters" Then I usually take them, and it's always worked out great.

If you really are better than the rest of the applicants, let the leader know, it's worth taking someone 430 for your 20 key over someone at 441 if I know they are very competent.



Wrong, meta starts to form from day 1 in any competitive game. There is no single youtube channel, twitch stream, competition, scoring system or site that makes the meta form.

Take a look at the last 2 weeks in the paladin/druid/DH tank discords, you'll see the discussion going from "Paladin tanks are too OP" to "Why does Paladin tanks suck now?" and all that happened was that a DH and a druid managed to get spot 1 and 2.

You can't stop people from trying to get a meta comp, but as an off meta class, all you need to do is show up with a better resume and people will take you. If they see that mistweaver monk with 2800 score, and they are picking between that and a druid or paladin healer, with 2650, you will get invited for 100% sure.

that may be so but those places are where the meta comps are highlighted to the broader player base, if they weren't there the meta builds wouldn't have been showcased so much

[Caerrona]

If you've seen enough leavers for it to be a big enough problem to come and cry on a forum you are the common denominator and should really learn how to play your class/learn the dungeons and affixes.

And lol at this biomega clown talking about m+ queues. You would be sitting in queue for eternity because no player that you would want to group with would queue. It would just be a bunch of dogshit players like yourself in an infinite fail loop.

Sit in queue > pull first pack > wipe > leave > requeue.

[kamuimac]

that may be so but those places are where the meta comps are highlighted to the broader player base, if they weren't there the meta builds wouldn't have been showcased so much

you have to realise something much more important.

those people at top are there for the reason . they are just good.

give those meta class to your average 1500 score players and 90 % of cases they would perform atrocious.

wantexample ? left HOI 15 earlier. why ? because when we wiped on first boss dps meter looked like this

1) spriest 69k dps
2) evoker 45k dps
3) 'meta" retri pala - 40k dps.


bl gone and meters look liek they look . no way in hell we are killign it on tyranical week .

joined 14 and blasted through it

why ?

because meters on 1st boss looked like this

+/-

1)shammy 70k
2) retri pala 70k
3) druid 70k .

what i mean is people leave for a reason not because they leave for sake of leaving.

giving meta class to bad player is like giving sport car to sunday driver - he will likely end up in a ditch or on the tree in under 5 minutes of driving. most of those in mid keys 12-17 hope for miracle and free boost . and when boost doesnt happen they come crying to forums.

[froschhure]

Problem with removing downranking is you'll end up with people who buy 20s on their fresh item level 370 alts who will then demand that they get their key carried. It'd make PuGing even more difficult than it is already. You'd suffer much more under a system without downranking.

That might be true, but on the other hand people that don't buy keys could learn without punishments and even those that bought, could just trial and error until they make it.

I love to play random high score keys, with or without key degradation. I dont mind. But i can understand those that would like to have some space for their weight. Keys could also come 3 tries instead of one l (before the downgrade happen). So you could actually try again without having to form another group.