Bored after 2 months of DF

[Delever]

It sucks that you don't have the time nor the desire to play the game. But it's asinine to design a game around people who can't or don't want to play it. You can't seriously expect people to stay subbed when you have 6-7 months or more between raid releases and M+ seasons and that's the only meaningful content you provide. This is WoD 2.0 and we all know how well that one was received.

You have me a bit mistaken here.

I indeed do not have a lot of time but I do have enough to be able to dedicate 2-3 hours a day depending on the day after work which I m willing to bet this is the category where the vast majority of players fall under (plus or minus one hour).
Wanting to also enjoy other games does not mean I do not have the desire to play WoW. It means that I enjoy it when I have the choice to either spend 1-2 hours each day on WoW and then 1-2 hours on another game and be able to keep up or spend 4 hours on WoW for 2 days straight and then spend the time also enjoying other games rather than "no other game allowed because you have to spend 3-4 hours a day to keep up with WoW".

You find it asinine that they would design a game around people who do not want to play it 24/7 and I find it asinine that they would design the game around the small % of people that have infinite free time on their hands.

Last time I read a survey around MMO players, the average player age was around 26 years old, and more than 50% of the sampled people were full time workers. Interesting to note that this was a few years back and this was a survey spanning multiple MMOs because I am also willing to bet that WoWs average age demographic this day and age is higher than other MMOs both due to the sub fee and due to the age of the game. Thus, the % of full time workers is likely to be even higher.

I therefore find it logical that they design the mandatory activities of the game in such a manner that you can complete them within a chill weekly timeframe, leaving you ample time to pursue non essential activities or enjoy other games. Calling DF WoD 2.0 is a bit disingenuine as we now have far more evergreen systems like M+ that we did not have in WoD.

[Alroxas]

But it's asinine to design a game around people who can't or don't want to play it.

May I remind you that there are games designed just like that?

You can't seriously expect people to stay subbed when you have 6-7 months or more between raid releases and M+ seasons and that's the only meaningful content you provide.

I think the general trend is that most players are only going to sub for as long as they want the content then unsub until there's additional content (à la content patch). Fewer and fewer players are going to stay subbed for an entire year with no breaks.

This is WoD 2.0 and we all know how well that one was received.

I mean folks liked WoD for the leveling and story content. End-game was pretty lackluster with only 3 raids, zero M+, and Tanaan jungle as it's max level zone.

DF (so far) has 1 raid (with 2 more planned according to roadmap) and M+ with it's mix/match of DF and older dungeons. So far we don't really have a max-level only zone but supposedly we're going back to the starting zone for Dracthyr. And there's rumors/hints that we're going underground similar to Deepholm. Could be that 1 of those 2 (if not both) zones may be max level only.

We're also getting another mega dungeon this year. WoD didn't feature a mega dungeon.

So far we haven't had a selfie cam patch in DF...

[Deadite]

Very interesting how you can frame your tiny little opinion as fact when it’s actually just arrogance haha.

Still doesn’t change the fact that you and others like you didn’t make the game, it’s not your game, you don’t know what players want, and a lot of us don’t play like you.

No no no! If you don't play the game the same way as that guy then you are playing the game wrong!!!

[BeepBoo]

You can't seriously expect people to stay subbed when you have 6-7 months or more between raid releases and M+ seasons and that's the only meaningful content you provide.

No, but I can expect them to stay subbed if they up those content releases to 2-4 months, which is the appropriate cadence. Also, lets look at genshin impact. You get to do maybe 15 minutes of "grinding" a day due to limited resource system. Yes yes "but not an MMO!" doesn't matter. It's closer to the wow most of you infinite grind people want than wow is by virtue of it actually being a single player game. Vastly more players, vastly more cash earned, vastly less playable hours that actually net you progression. It's possible to NOT feed the addicted carrot chasers and still make absolute bank. Designing a game so that people AREN'T playing it 24/7 is actually probably better for your company.

Also, I enjoy a wow that is dependent on keeping people around by constantly releasing NEW content versus stagnating and looking for ways to artificially extend the life of content. Publish or perish, as it were.

[Zorachus]

I think the problem with current. WoW slow release of content patches. It's way too long between patches and then there becomes dead time with nothing to do except the same old same old for months

10.0.7 as in due out until April which will have been 5 months after the expansion released. And that's a small minor patch

The big 10.1 isn't due until June / July which will be almost 8 months after DF launched.

They need to get new content out regularly like every 3 or 4 months at the most.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I think the problem with current. WoW slow release of content patches. It's way too long between patches and then there becomes dead time with nothing to do except the same old same old for months

10.0.7 as in due out until April which will have been 5 months after the expansion released. And that's a small minor patch

The big 10.1 isn't due until June / July which will be almost 8 months after DF launched.

They need to get new content out regularly like every 3 or 4 months at the most.

When you choose not to do more than half of the content offered to you in game… yeah no shit you’d feel bored a couple months after launch.

And still think it’s the “slowness” of content releases being the problem.

[Delever]

No, but I can expect them to stay subbed if they up those content releases to 2-4 months, which is the appropriate cadence. Also, lets look at genshin impact. You get to do maybe 15 minutes of "grinding" a day due to limited resource system. Yes yes "but not an MMO!" doesn't matter. It's closer to the wow most of you infinite grind people want than wow is by virtue of it actually being a single player game. Vastly more players, vastly more cash earned, vastly less playable hours that actually net you progression. It's possible to NOT feed the addicted carrot chasers and still make absolute bank. Designing a game so that people AREN'T playing it 24/7 is actually probably better for your company.

Also, I enjoy a wow that is dependent on keeping people around by constantly releasing NEW content versus stagnating and looking for ways to artificially extend the life of content. Publish or perish, as it were.

A good example that you gave actually. Genshin impct indeed has very little daily progression content but an insane amount of fluff that people can pursue at their own leisure. And yet it has an absurd amount of people playing it. So does FFXIV and all you need to do to keep up progression wise is 1 dungeon a day for 4 days.

[JustaRandomReindeer]

You have me a bit mistaken here.

I indeed do not have a lot of time but I do have enough to be able to dedicate 2-3 hours a day depending on the day after work which I m willing to bet this is the category where the vast majority of players fall under (plus or minus one hour).
Wanting to also enjoy other games does not mean I do not have the desire to play WoW. It means that I enjoy it when I have the choice to either spend 1-2 hours each day on WoW and then 1-2 hours on another game and be able to keep up or spend 4 hours on WoW for 2 days straight and then spend the time also enjoying other games rather than "no other game allowed because you have to spend 3-4 hours a day to keep up with WoW".

You find it asinine that they would design a game around people who do not want to play it 24/7 and I find it asinine that they would design the game around the small % of people that have infinite free time on their hands.

Last time I read a survey around MMO players, the average player age was around 26 years old, and more than 50% of the sampled people were full time workers. Interesting to note that this was a few years back and this was a survey spanning multiple MMOs because I am also willing to bet that WoWs average age demographic this day and age is higher than other MMOs both due to the sub fee and due to the age of the game. Thus, the % of full time workers is likely to be even higher.

I therefore find it logical that they design the mandatory activities of the game in such a manner that you can complete them within a chill weekly timeframe, leaving you ample time to pursue non essential activities or enjoy other games. Calling DF WoD 2.0 is a bit disingenuine as we now have far more evergreen systems like M+ that we did not have in WoD.

The thing is you could easily clear content in Legion in particular even if you are a full time worker. I know because I did it. Unless you are part of the 2% cutting edge raiders you never had to grind to keep up. Do you think someone who doesn't care about Heroic and Mythic raiding ever had to grind to keep up? Let's not forget that the vast majority of players wouldn't even consider themselves hardcore raiders. Only about 20% of players are AotC raiders based on achievement statistics. What that means is that the majority of players are happy with LFR and normal raids. You didn't need to grind AP to be able to clear heroic raids and you certainly did not need it for Normal raids and LFR. And what's even funnier is that based on achievement statistics more people cleared heroic raids in Legion than in WoD or any post-Legion expansion, even tho some people here claim that "the grind" prevented them from doing so. Almost as if if the game is fun outside of raiding then people are more likely to stick around and try raiding too.

Legion's overwhelming success can be credited to design choices that made activites outside of raiding and M+ feel rewarding. It was the only expansion where they did not cater to the 2% and that, in large part, made it the most successful modern expansion. Every expansion after Legion Blizzard have been removing more and more of the things that made it a good expansion until we went back to WoD levels of features and content once again. M+ will not keep DF afloat, especially now that a lot of people have soured on it after four expansions in a row of the same shit and Blizzard focusing more and more on designing dungeons to be an absolute nightmare in M+.

[Thirtyrock]

I'm still having a ton of fun, far more than at this point in the previous 2 expansions. More fun than in any expansion going back to MoP. I CAN raid log, which I have to do a lot during the winter due to work. When I have more time, I can log in and have TONS of stuff to do. Class design if far superior than anything we've had in a while. Dragonriding remains extremely fun for me.

I have not remotely run out of things to do. As a player with a casual schedule, but who is capable of mythic progression, this expansion has been ideal. I can do something meaningful every time I log in, but I don't feel I'm falling behind if I can't play as much as my guildmates. The ones who are playing more frequently have better gear, for sure, but it's not miles ahead like in previous expansions. They seem satisfied with their progression as well.

Can't speak to the experience of people who prefer not to participate in group content.

[crusadernero]

The thing is you could easily clear content in Legion in particular even if you are a full time worker. I know because I did it. Unless you are part of the 2% cutting edge raiders you never had to grind to keep up. Do you think someone who doesn't care about Heroic and Mythic raiding ever had to grind to keep up? Let's not forget that the vast majority of players wouldn't even consider themselves hardcore raiders. Only about 20% of players are AotC raiders based on achievement statistics. What that means is that the majority of players are happy with LFR and normal raids. You didn't need to grind AP to be able to clear heroic raids and you certainly did not need it for Normal raids and LFR. And what's even funnier is that based on achievement statistics more people cleared heroic raids in Legion than in WoD or any post-Legion expansion, even tho some people here claim that "the grind" prevented them from doing so. Almost as if if the game is fun outside of raiding then people are more likely to stick around and try raiding too.

Legion's overwhelming success can be credited to design choices that made activites outside of raiding and M+ feel rewarding. It was the only expansion where they did not cater to the 2% and that, in large part, made it the most successful modern expansion. Every expansion after Legion Blizzard have been removing more and more of the things that made it a good expansion until we went back to WoD levels of features and content once again. M+ will not keep DF afloat, especially now that a lot of people have soured on it after four expansions in a row of the same shit and Blizzard focusing more and more on designing dungeons to be an absolute nightmare in M+.

It doesnt matter how many times you keep saying "It wasnt needed". It happend anyway and was one of the main source of complaints about Legion and bfa. It means nothing that it wasnt needed to kill a LFR boss, it got nothing to do with it. Actually, you dont need to do anything in wow. You want to do stuff in wow. With DF theres players agency, in legion & bfa it was "We are Blizzard, we are telling you what to do". But hey, I suppose you prefer that.

Legions number one huge success was m+. After that class halls with weps, campaign and mount. AP was a huge pile of shite and I would wager most players are happy its gone.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm still having a ton of fun, far more than at this point in the previous 2 expansions. More fun than in any expansion going back to MoP. I CAN raid log, which I have to do a lot during the winter due to work. When I have more time, I can log in and have TONS of stuff to do. Class design if far superior than anything we've had in a while. Dragonriding remains extremely fun for me.

I have not remotely run out of things to do. As a player with a casual schedule, but who is capable of mythic progression, this expansion has been ideal. I can do something meaningful every time I log in, but I don't feel I'm falling behind if I can't play as much as my guildmates. The ones who are playing more frequently have better gear, for sure, but it's not miles ahead like in previous expansions. They seem satisfied with their progression as well.

Can't speak to the experience of people who prefer not to participate in group content.

This. Theres player agency once again. We can choose for ourself to play alot or raidlog. Or mix it up as the weeks go by. Thats a good thing.

[Doffen]

The difference between Legion and DF is that almost every kind of activity in Legion provided a meaningful reward and some kind of progression. I enjoyed that.

Thats the main big difference really. It cannot be said better than that. As a ultra casual player in DF having Legion style of progression(AP etc) would have changed a lot. Doing the solo/group casual stuff for some gear currency etc is just not interesting enough.

[HansOlo]

Very interesting how you can frame your tiny little opinion as fact when it’s actually just arrogance haha.

Still doesn’t change the fact that you and others like you didn’t make the game, it’s not your game, you don’t know what players want, and a lot of us don’t play like you.

So, you saying that Blizzard is not right either, because there is 'a lot of you'(burner accounts or)?

Sorry to say, but a 60B dollar company does exactly what it needs to do. And that is earning more money - if you dislike the game, you are per default the minority and considered uninteresting by Blizzard.

[crusadernero]

Thats the main big difference really. It cannot be said better than that. As a ultra casual player in DF having Legion style of progression(AP etc) would have changed a lot. Doing the solo/group casual stuff for some gear currency etc is just not interesting enough.

How would it change anything if you are ultra casual player? Ultra casual would most likely mean you play very little and/or are bad at the game. By choice or not.

Personally I dont view the term "casual" as being bad, but time investment. Just saying. If so, how can DF still be bad? I mean, if you barely play anyway?

[HansOlo]

How would it change anything if you are ultra casual player? Ultra casual would most likely mean you play very little and/or are bad at the game. By choice or not.

Personally I dont view the term "casual" as being bad, but time investment. Just saying. If so, how can DF still be bad? I mean, if you barely play anyway?

Casual = playing on your on term, not dicated by a community that been around for 20years.

It's like insisting to play basket in a soccer game. But that's just my view.

[Rageonit]

Sorry to say, but a 60B dollar company does exactly what it needs to do. And that is earning more money - if you dislike the game, you are per default the minority and considered uninteresting by Blizzard.

Yeah, that totally makes sense. When you loose a customer, you just piss on him, because you still have other customers. Business 101.

[HansOlo]

Yeah, that totally makes sense. When you loose a customer, you just piss on him, because you still have other customers. Business 101.

McDonalds target families with small kids. If you and I go there - it's just considered a nice hustle. The happymeal makes a good deal of thier income(hint: the clown is supposed to cheer up the kids and not you).

Every business must have well defined audiance. Especially, when you are in the billions league.

Business 102.

[Thirtyrock]

It doesnt matter how many times you keep saying "It wasnt needed". It happend anyway and was one of the main source of complaints about Legion and bfa. It means nothing that it wasnt needed to kill a LFR boss, it got nothing to do with it. Actually, you dont need to do anything in wow. You want to do stuff in wow. With DF theres players agency, in legion & bfa it was "We are Blizzard, we are telling you what to do". But hey, I suppose you prefer that.

Legions number one huge success was m+. After that class halls with weps, campaign and mount. AP was a huge pile of shite and I would wager most players are happy its gone.

- - - Updated - - -



This. Theres player agency once again. We can choose for ourself to play alot or raidlog. Or mix it up as the weeks go by. Thats a good thing.

You're talking to people who don't want that to be an option. They want EVERY thing to provide at least a chance at an upgrade. That's fine, they can want that. But players like me quit due to what FELT like an infinite grind. I quit, multiple times, because I felt like I could never keep up or even be competitive if I wasn't playing 16+ hours per week. I can't commit to that year round nor do I want to, so I just quit. I didn't whine and bitch that the game wasn't catering to me, I said "if the game isn't set up for me, I'll find a different game" even though I was bummed about it, because I love raiding.

Needing to fish for Titanforges or corruption procs or whatever made me miserable. Sure, the content was doable without the constant grind, but most guilds expected you to have a certain level of parity that couldn't be achieved without committing more time than I was willing/able to commit. That's not an issue anymore. I'm not geared as some of our more committed members, but I'm competitive. That is entirely due to the change in design philosophy.

[crusadernero]

Casual = playing on your on term, not dicated by a community that been around for 20years.

It's like insisting to play basket in a soccer game. But that's just my view.

Great, then we agree. Give players agency, not be dictated by predatory AP systems that force players to do content they dont want to. In DF, dont like arena? dont do it. Not m+? Dont do it. No raid mode? dont do it? Dont like WQs? Dont do it. Enjoy all of it? Go ahead. Can you play 16 hours a day? go ahead. Can you only play 2-3? Go ahead, its fine.

But nah, better put in neverneding grinds cause that surely give player agency and choices.

- - - Updated - - -

You're talking to people who don't want that to be an option. They want EVERY thing to provide at least a chance at an upgrade. That's fine, they can want that. But players like me quit due to what FELT like an infinite grind. I quit, multiple times, because I felt like I could never keep up or even be competitive if I wasn't playing 16+ hours per week. I can't commit to that year round nor do I want to, so I just quit. I didn't whine and bitch that the game wasn't catering to me, I said "if the game isn't set up for me, I'll find a different game" even though I was bummed about it, because I love raiding.

Needing to fish for Titanforges or corruption procs or whatever made me miserable. Sure, the content was doable without the constant grind, but most guilds expected you to have a certain level of parity that couldn't be achieved without committing more time than I was willing/able to commit. That's not an issue anymore. I'm not geared as some of our more committed members, but I'm competitive. That is entirely due to the change in design philosophy.

Yeah, I feel you. Its such a relief to have a way more relaxed approach to wow again. Were you dont need to feel constantly bad for missing out on the grind and thus let your teammates down (be it pug or guild).

In short, one had to do content you didnt want to do in order to compete in the content you actually wanted to do. Over time thats draining and wont work. For one xpac? Yeaaaah, maybe. More than that? Yeah noo.

I've said for a long time that the AP system might have worked for one xpac(Legion) but when they dragged that concept into another xpac(bfa) and then esentially have players on AP farm for years drained people. SL had features like that too, certainly didnt help.

[Zodiark]

Sometimes I wish I wasn't as competitive as I am, but man there is nothing like being better than someone at something and having the stats to back it up. I simply wouldn't be playing wow if I wasn't doing current content stomping people. It holds next to no appeal otherwise.

I go to the gym for that feeling. Or enjoy a good date night with my girl or drive around in my nice car or truck if I want to feel like I've done something. When I play WoW it's just for a little fantasy fun. Like when I was a kid and my father and I would watch old Ray Harryhausen adventure movies like the 7th Voyage of Sinbad or the original Clash of the Titans. I'm competitive too but I feel like winning at life > WoW every time.

[BeepBoo]

I go to the gym for that feeling. Or enjoy a good date night with my girl or drive around in my nice car or truck if I want to feel like I've done something. When I play WoW it's just for a little fantasy fun. Like when I was a kid and my father and I would watch old Ray Harryhausen adventure movies like the 7th Voyage of Sinbad or the original Clash of the Titans. I'm competitive too but I feel like winning at life > WoW every time.

Why not both? Why not literally everything? I'm competitive when it comes to stuff like navigating walmart isles, talking shit in my head about fucking idiots who clearly don't have a plan wandering aimlessly or walking slowly instead of with purpose. Any time I can compare myself to others, I do, and let me tell you, it's easy to feel good about yourself if you look around at the general public because they're about as good at any given thing as casual "overworld only, solo progression" players are at wow.