Who is final boss in WoW lore? Void lords?

[Cheezsammich]

The final boss will definitely be The Doctor. EX-TER-MI-NATE!

[Zers Editor]

Tbh, if WoW stops right after the void is dealt with, I expect them to subvert the 7th power into "it was a human (implying the way we, real-life humans act and think) factor all along" with it "prevailing" over all the other cosmic powers.

[czarek]

Vood Lords = Titans = Eternal Ones = Light/Life/Disorder equivalents.

The First Ones are obvioisly the Biggest Bad.

Oh did you just point that FIRST ones were FIRST ? ;O OMAGOSH
But anyway i dont think there is any known yet for even writers Like the story seems like is flexible and written on demand. Except this we dont need final boss. And prob would be better to dont know who he/she/it is for sure.

[ArenaDk]

Nobody. They'll be no final boss because the game will keep going.

If WoW was an offline game the final boss would have been Arthas at the end of Wrath since everything that narratively wow was built on (following the effects of Warcraft 3 and its main characters) ended with the fall of Arthas and a new sequel would have been made a few years later.

What the hell are you talking about? Even before Arthas was a thing we had stuff like Deathwing being build up or Sinestra with the new twillight dragons she was making? Just cause you only played the game doesnt mean there was not 10 times more lore build up way before Arthas was even a thought in the developers heads.

Heck Arthas story was even for the 3 Warcraft games more of a side story, people just fell for it cause it literally is the evil King arthur cliche that is easy to follow, seems deep on a surface level and reimagines childhood fantasies.

[Segus1992]

Yes. The Void Lords are the ultimate horror, hailing from a place beyond the physical universe, their potential for destruction so terrible that it terrified even the mighty Sargeras himself.

No. It's one thing to be a lore fanatic, it's another to claim WoW has any kind of final boss. Once Sargeras was moved past, making any such claims is just silly. The game will keep going and keep creating new lore until the game is no longer profitable.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I used to think it was the Void Lords too, as they were set up that way through Warcraft Chronicle(s), some of Legion and some of BfA.

Now… with the changing of the guard of Blizzard and how the lore/story has had massive changes in lore, direction, “perspective” and the like… I feel like now the Void Lords will just be dealt with in an expansion dedicated to the Void.

Then we move on to whatever threat the current regime decides. You never know— Sargeras is merely imprisoned and the Burning Legion is just shattered, not completely eradicated. Also we have yet to see the role of the Light and if we will have to deal with zealots/fanatics of the Light trying to convert the cosmos to their faith.

Personally I hope this is not the case.

[Soeroah]

The final boss will be whoever the final boss happens to be of whatever expansion they release last before winding down the servers, is the practical answer. Until that point we don't know, because they'll keep writing stories and prolonging the franchise until it becomes unprofitable. No cashcow like this is going to end because the writers reach the end of whatever story they had planned a few years ago.

At the moment, it sounds like whatever force is behind the destabilisation of all reality, which would imply it's not got anything to do with any of the six cosmic forces.

[huth]

This is YOUR interpretation of the 7th force. For me it's the Progenitors and this is pretty much implied in Firim's journal.

I admit that I had not imagined that we could take things from this other point of view.

What you're doing isn't even interpretation, it's just randomly attributing things that aren't in the text. The line by itself does not imply anything of value, and with context, it becomes clear it isn't about the First Ones.

You want the 7th force to be the First Ones. There's no evidence they are, and what evidence there is suggests they are not. In fact, things could be read as the 7th force referring to the mortals. I.e. our characters.

It's also distinct from whatever is outside, the thing the First Ones created the whole universe to contain/keep out.

[Soeroah]

Personally, and it's been a while since I read it so I might be going off incorrect information, but when we learned about the "7th force" I wondered if it wasn't really a separate force that was antagonistic, and if it was simply the concept of the six other forces acting in harmony. One of Farrim's lines sounded to me like there were two perspectives; the six cosmic forces, and the seventh force, which is the six. I sorta took that to mean that the 'seventh force' is a hypothetical future where all is in harmonic balance.

And I think the Jailer and potentially Murozond's ominous "what I have seen/a cosmos divided cannot stand against what is to come" was less about some Biggest Bads Worse than the Void Lords who want to devour everything, and more about the idea that if the cosmic forces continue to escalate in their wars against each other for dominance the entire universe will simply, naturally break down. In that sense I suppose the "big bad" would be the concept of entropy.

[Lora]

sargeras. its always gonna end with him.

[Soeroah]

Entropy is a concept of the Void. Also, while this is a neat theory, this ultimately succumbs in that the 7th Power is apparently its own song, as theorized by Firim, and supposedly the 6 Forces point towards it yet deny it. It is also implied that this power is both a potential solution awaiting its opportunity, as well as something that is so crazy, Zovaal states that "no power you possess can stop what is coming".

Why do you think he wanted to remake and bind the Cosmology to begin with?

The "what is coming" ordeal isn't in regards the 6, otherwise Zovaal's plans wouldn't have a genuine purpose towards it, and he wouldn't deem that no power the mortals possess would be futile against the coming ordeal, had the ordeal been bound to the Cosmic Forces and their magics, no?

Something is out there, something so crazy that even the Void is seemingly aware of it and is trying to get shit done fast...

And if we base Firim's theory of "Perhaps the Progenitors design wasn't meant to last" in perspective, then maybe, and this is my theory at least, this 7th power isn't some united 6 or anything, but it's meant to potentially be that safety measure placed by the First Ones for in case the 6 Forces ever found themselves imbalanced once more.

A design of 1 Megapower Vs a Design of 6. If the 6 fail, the 1 claims them and remakes reality in its own song.

- - - Updated - - -



2013 was 10 years ago.

I figured that, as an unfathomably ancient god-type being, Zovaal like all the other cosmic force deities has trouble seeing things from a mortal perspective and tends to think the only way to achieve harmony is if *I'm* the one in control, so I can make sure things are on the right track, guys. It would kinda mirror the newish lore that says the Lich King was trying to turn Azeroth undead so it could unify and defend against the old gods or whatever - Blizzard does tend to like their fractal storytelling. It'd be, in a sense, fitting that the Lich King tried to implement Zovaal's grand cosmic plan on a much smaller Azerothian scale through subtle potentially unwitting influence.

But yeah, like I said, it's been a while since I read the actual lore. I just remember that was one of my theories. The other theory was that whoever the First Ones were are gone now, that they split their souls into fragments, used those fragments to give life to the Eternal Ones, Titans etc so they could experience their creation (the universe) from the inside as oblivious passengers to try to learn about a mortal experience, and once their experiment is over the universe as we know it is supposed to end. I think part of my headcanon for that was Wrathion's "how ironic, none of them remember" line back in MoP, but that was more a wouldn't-it-be-cool-if thing than a I-think-this-is-what-Wrathion-knows thing. Like, if the Titans are parts of the First Ones but are oblivious to it, and then they do the same thing when Sargeras destroys their bodies and shelter within the Keepers of Azeroth... again, it'd be fractal storytelling

[Soeroah]

I mean, yeah, Zovaal definitely wanted his influence there and whatnot, but his reasonings for it seems a bit...with reason, beyond just the idea of the 6 forces going against eachother. Hell, he was one of the main reasons the Cosmic War BS happened to begin with.

I dunno, there just seems to be more to it than that, ya know? Even earlier on in Firim's notes, before discovering Zererh Mortis, he was theorizing stuff in regards to the 7th power and whatnot, which means the Progenitors always supposedly had this 7th force in play.

Aldo, your theories in regards to the First Ones is neat, as they did give a piece of themselves to bring about the Cosmic Balance, but the Pantheons are not really "them", similar to how the Keepers and Old Gods aren't really the Titans and Void Lords, ya know? Granted, the Titan spirits did go inside the Keepers for a time, but that's it.

The Pantheons are the children of the First Ones, and they are blessed with different gifts to better represent/embody each Cosmic Force.

- - - Updated - - -

And that's okay if you're not as deep into this story, I totally understand. Your theories are good regardless. I'm just VERY into Progenitor lore lol. Same goes with the WoW Cosmology in general.

Yeah, I'm very into them too, lol. I'm just also into the idea of gods incarnating themselves as unaware mortals within worlds they create to try to learn from a mortal perspective before eventually returning - but they're essentially different people who might not be into that while they're mortal. Though in this case it's less mortal and more "let's see what happens if we split our souls into six pieces and bind each to a different kind of magic and make them sentient new beings for a bit"

Under that theory, I was half thinking the reason Azeroth is the Super Special Titan is because she's the first one being born with influence from the other cosmic forces affecting her while she's still gestating - making her essentially closer to, but not actually, a First One than any being has been since the universe's creation thus far. Kinda like the nephelem in Diablo, I guess..

[Kallisto]

Sure..and the Chronicles are lore...until "perspective" comes into play.

"Perspective" of Aman'thul, who knows everything that has, will and is happening in the physical universe and why he made the bronze dragons make sure the true timeline is being kept.

It's like saying "The real universe is just the perspective of a God." when they talk about a God who knows everything that has, will and is happening. The perspective of someone that knows everything in the universe they're in

[Zardas]

It's a possibility, but it's still strongly implied that this seventh force is the First Ones themselves who created the universe with the other 6 forces by creating a pattern.

Sorry bro but you're the only one imagining this implication, the 6 forces have been created by the progenitors, you agree on that, right ? Then your quote just indicate that a 7th force exists, nowhere is it implied that the progenitors are this force. On the contrary : it seems more reasonnable to think that they are the creators (some would say the progenitors) of this seventh force too.

[huth]

But what are you talking about? Do you take drugs?
Are you seriously telling me that Firim who was in ZERETH MORTIS (a First One area) looking for answers about the Progenitors has no fucking connection to them the 7th force he's talking about??? Seriously?

No, and i have no idea where you're even getting that from. Maybe you should stop mentally jumping halfway across the continent all the time and stay within the confines of what is actually being talked about.
For that matter, maybe you should take your drugs, because you're getting bent way out of shape here and are barely coherent.

Who is it that extrapolates between the two of us? Whoever says it's probably mortals the 7th force (wtf???) or me just making the connection to Zereth Mortis? But what world do you live in...

You, because i did not even claim the former while you went way beyond merely a connection to Zereth Mortis. I only said it could be read as referring to mortals.
You keep throwing in your own speculations and attribute them to everybody around you when they didn't even say half of what you claim they did.

The sentence I quoted is only a small part of one of the diary pages.

That's the point. Your conclusion only works when you ignore the rest of them.

You have disastrous takes so often

Go look in a mirror.

[Daedius]

The Player

[Zardas]

I'm not the only one to have understood it like that. Moreover, it is not because many of you think the opposite (ad populum) that you are right and that I am wrong.

I think that in the absence of more information there is no point in discussing it more, I admitted that I had not considered this different point of view but I remain on my position.

However, I can only disagree when people tell me that I randomly assign things for no reason just because I want to, when they just throw me out after an unfounded theory that comes out of nowhere from someone in bad faith.

But I'm curious, don't you find it more reasonnable to think that the progenitor created the 7th Force, like the sixth other ? Do you have any reasons to believe the opposite ? Surely the term "7th force" make it look like it is on the same "power level" (evne if I hate that term) than the sixth other ?

[Soeroah]

The 7th power is likely not the combined 6. The United 6 would just be that, the United 6. They'd still be 6 forces, as we know the center/culmination of the 6 Forces and the Elemental ring is the Mortal Plane, AKA the Dark Beyond.

The 7th is straight up it's own thing, outside the Cosmology.

6 Vs 1. The 6 Forces vs the 7th Force.

Basically, using older WoW terms, the way the Void Lords were said to exist outside the physical WoW universe looking in... we now know that each of the six cosmic forces have realms and where they all intersect is where the physical universe manifests, but on the outside of whatever is containing all six of those cosmic realms there's a seventh power that, like the Void Lords, exists outside of the entire Warcraft universe cosmology as we understand it and is either biding its time, if it's sentient, or is just encroaching as the design weakens, if it's more like some sort of mindless pressure

So as the six fight each other the design weakens, and if a crack appears the pressure of the 7th, outside force could spill in and destroy everything, much like how the Void Lords want to invade the physical reality and take over it, but on a larger scale that would put all the other forces at risk

[Inoculate]

Tbh, if WoW stops right after the void is dealt with, I expect them to subvert the 7th power into "it was a human (implying the way we, real-life humans act and think) factor all along" with it "prevailing" over all the other cosmic powers.

Im sure the mortal factor is the 7th force as well. It's cliche enough for Danuser.

[Berkilak]

Sargeras will always be the big bad for me. He's the archetype of evil. He's Satan. No matter what they introduce beyond him, he will never be beat.

Tolkien tried to write a sequel to Lord of the Rings in a post-Sauron Middle-Earth, but couldn't come up with a central villain in that setting. This is the same challenge WoW writers are currently facing. I think it was extremely wise of them to refocus on smaller scale stories and conflicts. That's the only space they have left to explore, unless Sargeras is released.