Reinvention: Stratholme

[Doomwise]

It's all in the name of fun and the banishment of my recent boredom.

You must've been bored A DAMN LOT ^^.

But seriously, good job, lovely image that photoshoped one.
I also hope some of the Warcraft 3 lore will be reintroduced ( Pandarens PLEASE <3 ) and some of the existing lore be changed to such extremes as you portrayed Stratholme here. As much as I love some of the existing areas, the Eastern Kingdoms have been getting quite boring, namely Arathi Highlands and the areas around it, just dull grasslands. Pop a volcano right in the middle, that's gotta make it look great.

[SuperN]

Excellent job, a lot of work put into this. I hope Blizzard uses your idea.

[Frozenbeef]

althought it would be great i just dont see it happening for one we have already had two instances of strat and another i don't think the scourge will be weakneed or destroyed in the low level areas as when the new characters are created the scourge is still all powerfull untill they level up to 80 and then kill arthas so all zones higher level than northrend should contain no scourge.

Another point is i don't see blizzard ever removing an instance due to them working really hard on it and it would be upsetting if new players never get to experience them.

It wouls be nice if it was implemented though, i think some people may have been lead to believe that alot of azeroth is going to be tottally revamped rather than just a few odds and ends and then the creation of 80-85 zones.

[Retrogames]

First, another round of Thank Yous to Cearat, Taurentony and SuperN. Thanks for the compliments. If you're not on the list, it's because I'm quoting you below.

Mark your post with a Creative Commons free license. It's like a GNU GPL only they don't have to share any changes.

Looked into it and have added the information to the original post. I hope I got it right, I've never used a CC license before... if you're familiar with it at all and it looks off, do let me know. To be honest though, I feel a bit silly since I highly doubt Blizzard cares at this point... but why not be safe?

Any chance you'll compile all of your awesome ideas and get to Blizzard ?

I could probably clean the ideas up a bit and post them at the official forums, but... to be honest, I've tried posting suggestions, comments, etc. there and I always feel like I'm being drowned out by a rabid mob. I dunno how Blizzard actually wades through that mess on a regular basis.

On topic: maybe there's something else happening in the Plaguelands that we dont know? Chromie's already there... Maybe the Infinites are too! So he could send you back in to CoT: The (Second) Purging of Stratholme.

Note: I have a little philosophical meandering before I actually answer your question, but bear with me.

If you run down the beaches in Tirisfal Glade and hug the coast heading eastward, eventually you'll reach a little hidden spot with a few tables and chairs, a dock, and a Night Elf tower. You can see it on the maps here, and here's a screenshot of it (Don't try to reach it from Ghostlands, I tried that first).

I guess I've always appreciated the little things in World of Warcraft. I like finding little hidden spots, undiscovered corners of the world, and things of that nature. Someone at Blizzard likes/loves their job enough to put little insignificant details into far flung corners of the world, and I suppose it's out of respect that I seek them out. I know it's silly, but in a way it brings you closer to the game than anything else; it's off the beaten path, a little personal touch that few people know about.

Anyways, it's a bit sloppy (by the standards of the original post, at least), but I did do some similar work on Western Plaugelands, seen here. I retained the Lighthouse and tried to build off what might actually be lurking there. I tried to tie it into the nearby regions; it has the High Elf ruins and corrupted feel of Ghostlands, touches of the Scarlet Crusade from WPL and Hearthglen, Worgen druids needing an "eastern Moonglade", and the proximity to Undercity and the splinter faction of the Forsaken from Northrend.

I honestly just enjoyed filling in the map with cool stuff, but the lore kind of spun off and around from it. I guess the contents of this thread are a spin off from that.

You must've been bored A DAMN LOT ^^.

Not as much as you might think; the photoshopped screenshot at the top took about 10 minutes to quickly sketch, 10 minutes to hunt down a suitable spot, and 30 minutes to paint over and tweak. I like Photoshop work though, so it's not exactly a chore. The map was kind of quick and dirty, about 10 minutes to get everything colored, labeled, and sorted out. The first concept image is a quick sketch I did, 5 minutes to draw, 5 minutes to paint over in Photoshop. It's really small and low-quality because my scanner is on the fritz, so... a cellphone had to do.

The basic outline (lore, points of interest, quests) took 25 minutes or so, which also includes research and fact-checking the various things I wanted to do.

The found concept images just needed to be uploaded, as I have a huuuuuuuge sorted and archived collection of various images that invoke feelings, emotions, or ideas I want to play with.

I always re-read whatever I post to get typos or sloppy structure, though that's usually an on-going thing (I changed a few things this morning to make them clearer or easier to read, for example). All told, probably about an hour and a half, maybe two hours if you include the time spent just deciding if I really wanted to sit down and do it.

It's relaxing for me to create things, even things that are pointless. It's the act more than the result that always draws me in.

As much as I love some of the existing areas, the Eastern Kingdoms have been getting quite boring, namely Arathi Highlands and the areas around it, just dull grasslands. Pop a volcano right in the middle, that's gotta make it look great.

You're not off by mentioning Arathi at all, and it actually has a lot of lore and history built into it. Arathi Highlands is derived from Arathor, the first Kingdom of Men. Strom, modern Stromgarde, was its capitol, and it is from Arathor that the other kingdoms grew; Stormwind, Lordaeron, and Gilneas included. Eventually the empire began to splinter after the cause that united the various human tribes (a war against the trolls) diminished, and Stromgarde keep is all that remains of it.

Cataclysm actually suggests Arathi might be getting a revamp. For one, Stromgarde is connected heavily to Tol Barad, which will appear in Cataclysm as a Wintergrasp-like PVP zone. The Lord of Stromgarde's nephew, Danath Trollbane, has sworn to restore Stromgarde when he returns to Azeroth (he currently resides in Honor Hold, and yes, that is a statue of him outside Stormwind). Gilneas also has it's origins in the Arathorian Empire, so there's always a connection there as well.

With the loss of Southshore, the Alliance really needs a new foothold in the North; I've suggested retaking Andorhal or fortifying Chillwind Camp, but Stromgarde would fit the bill nicely too.

.... Maybe I'll run with this idea, I'm already pretty familiar with the lore (probably too familiar, why do I know these things?)

althought it would be great i just dont see it happening for one we have already had two instances of strat

I agree; three versions of Stratholme is probably a bit much, but it is a relatively important location so it's not entirely out of the question that it receive so much attention.

and another i don't think the scourge will be weakneed or destroyed in the low level areas as when the new characters are created the scourge is still all powerfull untill they level up to 80 and then kill arthas so all zones higher level than northrend should contain no scourge.

I don't think anyone knows quite what will happen after Arthas falls, and until then we can only wildly speculate. I personally believe that Arthas will be slain, and a less power-hungry (and thus, less easily manipulated by Ner'zhul) individual will take his place. Uther's spirit has said that there must always be a Lich King, to maintain control over the Scourge lest it run rampant. But a new Lich King, one who has a stronger will, might be able to rein in the Scourge and pull them out of certain regions.

When Cataclysm hits, the entire experience will have changed; the scourge might be removed entirely from low level areas for all we know.

Another point is i don't see blizzard ever removing an instance due to them working really hard on it and it would be upsetting if new players never get to experience them.

I agree with this wholeheartedly; instances are too valuable to throw away completely. So far, this thread has suggested that some type of item within the city or a change within the Caverns of Time could allow players to enter the original Stratholme.

It wouls be nice if it was implemented though, i think some people may have been lead to believe that alot of azeroth is going to be tottally revamped rather than just a few odds and ends and then the creation of 80-85 zones.

Large portions of the game world ARE changing, however, and if this map is any indication then Eastern Plaguelands is one that will receive "Moderate Overhaul".

I don't think it an unfair assumption that large parts of Azeroth are going to be changing. Just take a look at http://mapwow.com/ and notice the vast empty spaces, sudden changes between zones, the vast amount of mountains that fence in the landscape, etc. With flying mounts being added, all of those crudely implemented fixes will need to be changed.

A glance at Northrend shows how the rest of Azeroth should realistically look after Cataclysm. I'm not sure if we'll get it, but I'm really hoping Blizzard spends the time on making the world as seamless as possible. That means lots of mountains removed, landscapes changed, etc.

So no, I don't think Cataclysm will be "New zones and a few Odds and Ends". I hope not, I'm eager to fly around the 'New Old World' and see what's changed.

Thanks again to everyone for the compliments, comments, thoughts, and general lack of negativity.

[Totle]

Great idea, but how do you account for the Scarlet Crusaders who have been trapped in the burning city? What if after Lich King fell, they had one final push, expelled the Scourge from the city, and then rebuilt it to a new faction town?

[RakuRaku]

This is an amazing idea, and I fully support it.

[TheDallman]

Retrogames, you're like.... brilliant. I'd continue showering you with compliments but quite honestly, I can't really think of enough. :O

[Phenomina]

Very nice read! ;D

[Retrogames]

Another round of Thanks to RakuRaku, TheDallman, and Phenomina for the compliments. Thanks for reading, folks.

Great idea, but how do you account for the Scarlet Crusaders who have been trapped in the burning city? What if after Lich King fell, they had one final push, expelled the Scourge from the city, and then rebuilt it to a new faction town?

That would be an interesting possibility as well, but I figured that adding another Scarlet-themed questing zone (especially with Tyr's Hand and Hearthglen nearby) would be redundant. I really wanted to shake Stratholme out of the traditional themes of the Plaguelands, to move past the lore established by Warcraft 3. Rather than focus entirely on the Scourge, Scarlets, and Argent Dawn, I decided to play on the Cenarion Circle's minor presence and have the region 'move on' from the last 5 years of storyline. It seemed like changing Strath from a hellish inferno to a green paradise was an interesting concept I wanted to try.

I hadn't really explained why the Scarlets have been replaced by Cultists... that's something I kind of glossed over and may revisit if I find something that inspires me. For now, let's say the Scarlets fell apart after their leader was revealed to be a Dreadlord and never recovered 8).

I'm going to stick out from the crowd and say that I dislike this idea.

Before I continue, I want to add that I'm glad this is kind of response this thread is getting. Even when people dislike the idea, they're being civil and giving reasons, so that we can open up an actual discussion rather than just beat the trolls out before they trash the place. Thanks, Keke.

2) The stratholme theme is dead in my eyes, I will never ever be stepping into those grounds (presuming that your idea had been implemented in the game already). Please, don't get me wrong, your actual idea is great, but I really dislike it revolving around Stratholme.

Completely understandable. Stratholme has been at the center of the lore for quite a while now, and it's not altogether an interesting place beyond "stuff happened here". Beyond being rather uninteresting, what other locations have been done twice?

Cataclysm will probably and most likely change Stratholme in one way or another, but if I were you, I'd be putting my energy on another, more appreciated region.

I know that alot of people still enjoy stratholme due to nostalgia and / or other reasons, but alot of people also dislike it as I mentioned. So, let's do it the Blizzard way and try to please everyone somehow.

I'm not too fond of Stratholme either; it was a chore in vanilla, a nuisance for alts in TBC, and a historical chore in WotLK. That's one reason I wanted to tinker with it; closure.

By taking such an important symbol and radically changing it, it shows the changes that are taking place as we move from "The Arthas Saga" started 8 years ago in Warcraft III and into "The Deathwing Saga" with the launch of Cataclysm. I guess by radically changing Stratholme, in a way I'm 'ending' it... or 'killing it', if you like.

I find the idea of "The Plaguelands after the Plague is gone" to be an interesting concept to play with; rather than being destroyed during the events of Cataclysm like the rest of Azeroth, this land is already at rock bottom, and is starting to heal. To me, the region needs that kind of appreciation to move on, and no where is that more significant than Stratholme, where the entire ugly affair more or less started.

I also converted it from an instance to an open Questing Zone because it makes for a more relaxed pace and doesn't need to be dealt with repeatedly. You can see the change and never have to deal with it again, though I really tried to make it a place of tranquility that players might RP in.

I think removing it as an instance and shifting it to a minor questing hub is a balance between the Strath fans and haters. The instance is removed (where it can't hurt anyone ever again), but the location and lore surrounding it is retained for those who enjoyed it. Its importance is diminished, but still revered and remembered.

Thanks for posting and voicing your disagreement, honest criticism is always welcome and useful.

[Hamburglar]

Awesome!

I hope Blizzard employes you, alot more fresh thinking then we are used to.

[RakuRaku]

Awesome!

I hope Blizzard employes you, alot more fresh thinking then we are used to.

[Dalladubb]

The CC license you picked it perfect. It legally notes you've waived ALL rights to this work. Blizzard can actually use it now.

[Totle]

I was thinking along the lines of: the remains of the Scarlet Crusade finally got the scourge out of Strat and are trying to return humanity to the city - thus making them a faction that we can get rep with rather than having us running around killing them (Foam Ashbringer anybody?)

[Orthiad]

I really love that idea.

That is just awesome if they would implant that into the game.


Love reading your ideas.

[QSPhoenix]

I like most of it, specially the lore you implemented, pretty good imho, what I don't like though, is that this is not instanced (i.e. a Dungeon) anymore and it has quests... Why is that?

There is no clear way to go all the way to the Ziggurats if I understand correctly, and when you come back... You have the same issue.

That's in my eyes at least, a huge flaw of design, just like the quests where you need to go search for keys in the druid dens, being those of ashenvale, or the one on the starting zone of the night elves, or the one in Sun Rock Retreat that you need to find keys and turn it in a stone, just because it's such a long tedious way, that you cannot do mounted most of the time and you have to kill a lot of NPCs to get where you want to get, unless you can stealth.

The only difference to me in that and in your work, is that you took those tiny zones into a leveling zone.

It's still pretty good, and a viable idea, but imho, it still needs some tuning.

How is stratholme going to work in Cataclysm? I have no idea, it needs to be a zone imho, or needs to be destroyed, how else is it going to fit in the puzzle that blizzard needs to fix, I don't know..

[Retrogames]

Another round of thanks to Kadram, RakuRaku and Orthiad for the compliments.

The CC license you picked it perfect. It legally notes you've waived ALL rights to this work. Blizzard can actually use it now.

Thanks for looking over it and making sure I got it right. I'm not so vain as to believe Blizzard will use my concept, but there's always the odd chance somebody will notice.

I was thinking along the lines of: the remains of the Scarlet Crusade finally got the scourge out of Strat and are trying to return humanity to the city - thus making them a faction that we can get rep with rather than having us running around killing them (Foam Ashbringer anybody?)

That's another route the area could go as well, but I think at this point the Scarlets have committed too many atrocities to become a neutral faction, even for just the Alliance (I don't need to tell you how the Forsaken and the Scarlets would get along...).

what I don't like though, is that this is not instanced (i.e. a Dungeon) anymore and it has quests... Why is that?

Rather than retain it as an instance when it no longer makes sense gameplay wise (Eastern Plaguelands is shifting to Level 45-50) or story wise (we're more or less 'done' with the Scourge), I decided to use it as a highly visible example of how things are changing. Adding a lot of quests to the area allows plenty of opportunities for players to stick around for a while and take in the sights, rather than run through it as quickly as possible (as is the case with instances).

Cataclysm is the closing of one chapter (The "Arthas" Chapter) and the opening of another (The "Darkwing" Chapter), and Stratholme is pretty much where 'everything started' with the Fall of Arthas. While I know that events we've already 'finished' will still be forced on players (Outland, specifically), that doesn't mean we can't wish (or post theoretical concepts) about them.

There is no clear way to go all the way to the Ziggurats if I understand correctly, and when you come back... You have the same issue.

I'm not sure I follow. Are you asking about the Map I posted, or just the current mechanics of Strath's gates closing? Either way, the entire section is open (the gates would no longer close) to players at all times.

That's in my eyes at least, a huge flaw of design, just like the quests where you need to go search for keys in the druid dens, being those of ashenvale, or the one on the starting zone of the night elves, or the one in Sun Rock Retreat that you need to find keys and turn it in a stone, just because it's such a long tedious way, that you cannot do mounted most of the time and you have to kill a lot of NPCs to get where you want to get, unless you can stealth.

I'm not sure I follow here either.. are you commenting on how difficult it would be to get around in the area? If so, the zone would no longer be full of undead; the enemies would be non-elites and level-appropriate to the zone, and spaced out quite a bit further.

I'm also pretty sure you would be allowed to mount in this area, since it would now be considered part of the world proper.

The only difference to me in that and in your work, is that you took those tiny zones into a leveling zone.

I may be reading what you're saying incorrectly, but are you concerned that I've made a 'small questing area' instead of a large one? The change to Strath is intended to be lore heavy, and provide a quick little questing hub for players (especially Deathknights who can zip right up and check things out after leaving their starting area). I dunno what else to say, please let me know what exactly you meant by this comment.

How is stratholme going to work in Cataclysm? I have no idea, it needs to be a zone imho, or needs to be destroyed, how else is it going to fit in the puzzle that blizzard needs to fix, I don't know..

We haven't heard anything about Strath, which is why I decided to play with the idea before we find out what Blizzard plans to do officially. I can't imagine they'd leave it as is, but they're clearly busy with other things. Who knows, but that's part of the fun in speculating.

Thanks for reading, everyone.

[QSPhoenix]

What I mean if you cannot mount and run around is because you will agro monsters, and even if they are non-elites, if you try to run past them and for some reason they daze you they will probably blow you up. I'm not concerned it's small, it's good that it's small, it's a change. What I see, is there is no "road" to follow, and the standard is "there's no monsters in the road".

Now, the problem with it being small and not having a road, is where are you going to put monsters, and how to not make it tedious to travel across it, (obviously I don't think it's going to be a lot everywhere in packs of 5, one here one over there). And there is no other exit than coming back where you came from, that means, you will have to deal with respawns, that's the reason you can't mount up, or why mounting up is just a waste of time, because you will need to clear your way back unless you want to take chances of dragging some monsters.

I didn't think there was going to be gating. Hope this answers your questions.

Also, I'm not trying to be rude or flame you in any way, sorry if it seems like it.

Edit: In case I'm not clear enough and in an effort to be more descriptive, like the tunnel in Timbermaw Hold when you are at war with them, you needed to do one of two options, run like the wind, or kill your way through. Usually option one had bad consecuences when you were unlucky and got dazed. And why is this a problem, originally Stratholme was designed to be a dungeon, you needed to clear trash in order to get to bosses and this is ok, it's an instance, when you convert it into a zone and you put monsters, you need to clear your way to your zones of interest which turns into tedious because you can level in another 45-50 questing zone, because they are still quests, they just give exp and some greens, maybe a blue over here and there.

And if you are redoing something (or creating from scratch) I bet you want it to be used, not something like "Eh... I don't want to go to Stratholme to level because I need to keep clearing to get where I want to get".

[PaladinBash]

I wish the Tier 9 armour designers put as much thought and effort into their work as you did. Good job.

[Critpocket]

May i call you an Artist? this stuff is realy realy good. i've enjoyed the whole thing. I also made thoughts about such changes in the plaguelands and i still hope blizzard would envolve (implement? sry at this point for bad english) it. I'm so worry that blizzard has not many people like you, this game would be much more lovely and intresting.

[Kalyyn]

I was always a big fan of Stratholme becoming the new argent dawn city after wrath, but I don't know... theres something sort of romantic in the way you described it... my only change would be that I'd have it completely void of npc's, save for a few of your druid friends, to give a bit of a chilling feel for us lore junkies who just want to go back and remember... alone in an abandoned city, the wind blowing the long grass back and forth, the echos of a forgotten war resonating through the town square...
But you, sir, are a genius.