Some ideas for fixing Retribution

[zcks]

Many of you guys seem to have no reading comprehension whatsoever & are thus misinterpreting what you are reading.

As for those of you who claim ret does not need changes, you obviously have not played on the beta at all or listened to allot of the high end retribution players who have because we have serious issues there & many of them are directly connected by how much uncontrollable RNG is in our spec. By Reducing this RNG & making our holy power generation many of our problems would be fixed.

As for those of you who just say l2p the spec is not hard, that there in is the problem, The spec is not hard at all & it rewards pure dumb luck more then skill & control. As is I can easily maintain 10k solo on dummies & 14-15.5k on bosses in ICC.

So unless you have something useful to add that you have learned about faults in the spec & a way to fix it please just do yourself a favor and leave. This thread is intended for posting useful ways they could solve our problems.

[glowpipe]

A friend of mine does 11k single target in a regular 5 man heroic. And that with some icc 10 gear. if you are saying they need MORE fixes now i hope you quit wow and fall under a large rock

[zcks]

Let me illustrate your logic here:

Zcks does not like RNG. Ret isn't hard. Therefore, Zcks cannot play ret well.

I like to call this "underpants gnome logic".

Thank you for your support BadPaladin, it seems like less and less of the paladins out there anymore actually use any real logic in anything they do.

Also yes I hate the overabundance of RNG in the spec, some is ok but having as much as we do then having it also control resource generation & be tied to things like auto attacks which we get almost none of in pvp & very little of in movement or target switching fights just leads to major problems.

---------- Post added 2010-10-17 at 02:52 PM ----------

A friend of mine does 11k single target in a regular 5 man heroic. And that with some icc 10 gear. if you are saying they need MORE fixes now i hope you quit wow and fall under a large rock

The problem is not specifically the damage we do. It is that the damage can vary widely even when the same fight is done multiple times due to the complete randomness on resource generation & the fact that several of our procs only come from auto attacks which require constant melee range. Both of which rarely happen in pvp & happen allot less if a fight requires movement or target switching.

[Nzo]

doing 12-13k on most every ICC boss with a 5700gs...

We are certainly NOT broken right now. Scaling issues at 85 will be addressed at 85.

Urrrrr you know thats BAAADDDDDD right?, yesterday i did 13k on SARTHARION 3D zerg.... and i am at Average Ilvl 262 (thats about 5.9kGS)

[zcks]

Some changes I think are to much like the one to long arm of the law which is basically a 12sec sprint on an 8sec cd at what ever range.

The change I suggested for long arm of the law actually came from our pvp performance so far on the beta at 85. As is anyone with a snare & a ranged attack can run us in circles indefinitely. When looking at ways to fix this I started looking at long arm of the law and noticed it has a 50% up time (65% or so if in pvp gear) Then I got to looking at feral druids.

As is feral druids have a constant 130% run speed, As much survivability/self healing as we do, a physical snare, a charge/sprint, a better interrupt (theirs also adds +30^% mana cost on next spell) the ability to get out of any & all snare/root effects via shape shifting, Fear immunity on a moderate Cd, and much smoother point generation then we have.

After noticing they had all these things I asked myself what would be a simple way to increase our pvp viability from its current crap status at 85. The simple answer was to make long arm of the law a constant effect & to make a slight change to the idea "blizzard" had of making cleanse remove 1 snare when cleanse is cast on self.

Even with cleanse removing 2 or more snares at a time and a constant 145% run speed we would still have more then our share of problems but at least we would stand a chance of reaching the enemy.

[Deleted]

i agree that rets numbers on live are pretty fine but the ones i read about from beta could sue some tuning and the randomness of holy power generation is just silly since it can make or break us in both pve and pvp depending on luck wich is just.
silly but then again it took until some months into wrath before blizzard decided to change SoC from the random burst seal it was to the seal of cleave it became so i think it will take them alot of time to realise that being luck absed yet again wont be good for paladins, except the lucky bastards offcourse.
also i dont agree with all your proposed changes since some are borderline OP and others will just be clunky like the having the TV dot refresh AW one will just lead to us being balanced on always ahving AW up wich will cripple us a bit more in pvp when fighting dispellers or when we have a ahrd time to get enough time on target to get a TV up.

[ragingsoul]

I just made a Ulduar25 run with guild for mimi's head (and I won it lol), and seriously, playing a ret makes you want to smash your screen. You can't aoe if there isn't 10 mobs, or you loose dps. If there is 10 mobs, they die so fast that you can't even get 3 holy power and pop Zeal before the fight is done. During zeal, all procs are wasted, a mastery proc during that time reduce the effectiveness of Zeal (I once had 4 hand of light procs in those 20 sec). We are almost the lowest class on aoe dmg, warriors's cleave don't cost them so much single target dps, they can do WW when they enter a group, DK's aoe are far stronger and easy to keep up, and a lot more consistent.
Our aoe is TIDED to single target dps. if you can't single target dps for any reason, you can't aoe after, seal of righteousness is still complete fail. We are like the only class that needs to stack something to FIVE, with a 2h weapon, rogues deadly poison is the other 5 stacks debuff, that gets up much much faster, (sunders etc are all at 3 stacks now)

Whoever is saying ret is fine, try to make something ELSE than a single target dps with no downtime, when nuking as hard as you can is the only thing that matters. Whenever you have to hold dmg, whenever you have 2 or 3 adds, whenever you loose your stacks, you're dmg is sinking, tanks are almost doing more dmg depending on fights.

Some changes here looks good, but like others said, the chances of seeing them change anything at this point is almost none existent.

[darkansss]

noooooooo

[belfpala]

Hmm...

I'm pretty happy with how Ret is shaping up. I just have three main concerns.

1. DP/Zeal/HoL conflicts. This has been hashed out already so I won't explain it again.

2. Difficulty in doing effective AoE damage compared to other classes. We went from first to worst in this category, which is just annoying. I'm not asking to be back to pre-4.01 ret AoE, I just want it to work better.

3. Inverse scaling from 80 to 85. There are a number of ways to fix this, all in Blizzard's hands.

Suggestion: The one thing I would really really like to have is something on a short CD that gives me holy power. Perhaps Zealotry could be changed to this. Example, it would give you 3 holy power. 30 second cooldown. This would be useful to pop at the start of a fight either to put up Inq or start with AoE right away. Also useful for timed burst.

Oh well.

[babyback]

I really cant se how and why people are whining about ret paladins. Yesterday I played a good friends ret pala in ICC. Hes has gear from ICC hc and I have hardly ever played a paladin. But still I managed to pull of 8-10k. THem who play paladins as mains should easly be able to pull of 13-14k?

[Ronark]

We already have a thread dedicated to this, namely http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-paladin-ideas.


Also, it appears that trolls linearly scale with the weekend, so this thread's life will have to end as well.

But don't worry, it will receive cookies in MMO-C Thread Heaven.