Disc PVE Stats

[Deleted]

HEY FORUM! Need some help with my stats as disc pve!

I have been playing as shadow for a long long time but after 4.0 I bought some gear to be able to try out disc. From what Ive heard you should focus on haste/crit without spirit, so I kept 2 shadow t10 parts for the haste and crit etc. Very well, heres my stats:

29.34% Haste
34.61% Crit
3715 SP
408 Spirit
~40 000 mana
0 Mastery

With that being said, am I on the right path? Directions appriciated! I think my average itemlevel is 262 if thats matter.

[Diber]

In patch 4.0 spirit became important again, so having some more spirit is now worth while.

I've got 25% haste, 38% crit, 4k SP, 1.1k spirit (after solice's 256 is up), 50k mana, and 13 Mastery.

It seems our mastery is kinda.... crap at the moment, and from what I've seen from the beta (Haven't been on it recently, but it was ~1 month ago) it will be crap at 85 too.

Crit is our lifeblood, but that saying, so is SP and Haste. I'd probably rank it haste being the more critical simply due too haveing to either get Heal off, or smites come level 85.

Either way, your more or less on the right track, you could just use a bit more spirit to help with regen when it actually becomes needed. Rotation and knowing when to use what spell, and prediction of damage will be much more valuable then base stats though, especially as a class that "prevents" damage.

[harky]

At your gear level it should be: Int > Mastery > SP > Haste (to ~700) > Crit > Haste > Spirit

You're beyond that haste level, so your main concern is just Int > Mastery > Crit > Haste > Spirit. Crit is your best gem at that point for activating yellow sockets, but ignoring them is better. Reforge Spirit, Crit and Haste to Mastery, but try not to drop under ~700 haste.

That changes massively at 85, but at 80 Mastery is roughly equal to Int and easily your second best stat. In 277 gear Mastery is better than Int due to the way it scales.

[Aliahna]

Go check out the theorycrafting thread on the Elitist Jerks priest forum. It will answer most of your questions. The amount of haste you will need will be based on your talent points (darkness or not) and whether you have a shaman and wrath of air or not. You need mastery to beef up your shields because a lot of the modifiers that made them more powerful were removed with 4.0.1.

In essence you will need more haste now, crit is also still good due to Divine Aegis procs, but you also need mastery. The stats you listed show you can trade quite a bit of haste and some crit for mastery, but the EJ site will help a lot.

[Deleted]

on a slight tangent, playing around with my disc spec earlier (it's my offspec from shadow) I noticed I was getting more powerful shields from baubleHc reforged to mastery than I was with purified lunar dust. that would make the 40ish mastery on bauble more powerful than the 160something int on lunar dust.

that seems like a pretty big difference in stat weights.
of course, it's only relevant to shield spamming, but still.

[harky]

If you're mostly in 277 it wouldn't be that surprising. At that point the low SP scaling on PW:S really starts to stand out and especially at the lower end of mastery would make a big difference. It's +2.5% for I think the conversion is 45.91 points. Compare to PLD giving you +64 to the shield. The only reason Int is valued above Mastery at lower points is because Mastery gives no scaling to anything except PW:S/PW:B since DA has a hard cap. If PW:S is ever >70% of your healing then Mastery > Int starting as low as around 2k SP.

[Popesickle]

harky, 700 haste, is that with or without darkness in shadow tree?

Since I dual spec shadow, a good deal of my gear has crit and haste, and since mastery is pretty bad for shadow, I cannot reforge to much mastery. Im sitting at:

3827 spell power
1010 haste
37.15% crit

I do not have any points in darkness. Would it be worth losing a little haste for mastery? I only have a few places to get mastery.

[harky]

With. I think it's 831 you want to not drop under with 0 in Darkness. If you're worried about Shadow I just wouldn't bother. Otherwise yeah you can reforge to drop down to the mid 800s on haste in exchange for Mastery. Should give you +113 mastery rating or so. Then look at Crit and Spirit, both are pretty bad for Disc.

But again, if you care about your Shadow off-spec I wouldn't both reforging items that both specs share.

[Popesickle]

According to something I read on EJ, haste cap is 951 with 2/3 darkness and BT.

[rohendar]

If you really want to go Disc, you want to reforge all that crit into mastery. Pieces without crit reforge spirit into mastery. Keep haste as high as possible.

People saying earlier in this thread crit is lifeblood and mastery being bad, they are just clueless.

[Boomkindance]

If you really want to go Disc, you want to reforge all that crit into mastery. Pieces without crit reforge spirit into mastery. Keep haste as high as possible.

People saying earlier in this thread crit is lifeblood and mastery being bad, they are just clueless.

Im fairly new to priests in general, but wouldnt the statement on "crit vs mastery" be based on whether your "healing" via shield spam or healing with penance/heal/gheal etc?

crits proc Divine Aegis which is quite useful, and Mastery only gets you to the DA cap quicker, so the only real thing that Mastery helps in is when your spamming your PW:Shield across the raid (and PW:B), but helps for little else.

As I said, im new, and havent done the math, but this is my perception. It seems to be more worth it in cataclysm (when you wont be able to spam much) to have the crit as efficient use of heals will be important.

[Kelesti]

The "DA cap" isn't something you're likely to see, 90% of the time. It still requires multiple heals to crit in a very short time, and any of it disappears in a single melee swing anyways. Now that bosses have expertise, you can't expect "avoidance streaks" to really factor into the equation any more, unless you're already outgearing old content (yay 5 mans in t12).

Mastery and crit go hand in hand, one makes the other better (and v.v.), for regular tank healing. Now haste factors into both of these, faster spells taking advantage of faster, stronger crits.

For general healing, it's not as easy as "ignore X stat, it's terrible" anymore. We just have to find the thresholds where the numbers really seem to mesh.

[Boomkindance]

I know haste is a very very nice stat to have on a throughput perspective... but if mana is going to be an issue, might it be better to look for crit/mastery gear as it makes for a more effective spell per mana cost, rather than just pumping out more of the spells/reducing GCD, etc.

The only thing haste makes better on an effect per mana basis would be renew, right?

So you also have to look and see if the encounters your in require spikes of healing where a quicker GCD, and chain spells is what you need, or if longevity, and effectiveness for your mana is what you need.

Again, im just spitballing here, as I like to reason with myself why a stat is good rather than just reading it from someone and assume they know what they're talking about.

The idea of "lets maximize healing throughput" that existed in wotlk is by design being challenged in cataclysm, so i just want to make sure that these stat weights people are giving reflect the changes being made to healing playstyle as well.

[Kelesti]

As touched awhile ago, in a seperate thread, Haste also let's you use more of your "base" spell (Heal or Smite), as faster ones of those mean that you rely less frequently on Greater/Flash to catch up. It's an indirect efficiency increase, one you're less likely to notice, but it is there.

[Sarahstrasza]

Your first issue/mistake would be wanting to dual spec with just one set of gear. While it may work to some extent, you won't be able to excel at both specs- and just be mediocre. If you're alright with that then, continue.

[harky]

According to something I read on EJ, haste cap is 951 with 2/3 darkness and BT.

1.5 / 1.14 / 1.02 / 1.05 = 22.86% = 750 Haste.

951 is just over 29%, which with BT/Darkness/Buffs is 57.5%. Well over the cap.

0 = 831
1 = 790
2 = 750
3 = 711

I said 'around 700' because as it's not a HoT you're basing it on being close to the cap isn't much worse than being at the cap. If you're using one of the 2 Imp Renew/3 Darkness builds you'd be going for 1014 Haste.

[Popesickle]

Yes, 951 was without 5% haste buff.

BT, 2/3 Darkness 29% 951

BT, with 5% haste buff, 2/3 Darkness 22.86% 750

Shadow is my main spec, but I have a few pieces of gear that I can dedicate to healing, so I try to have a couple of pieces to switch out for different situations. Howeverm I guess it's almost pointless to try to max stuff out when in a month nothing will matter anyway.

What is the math of 1.5 / 1.14 / 1.02 / 1.05 mean? Is 1.5 the time, divided by 1.14 (borrowed time), divided by 1.02 (2/3 darkness), divided by 1.05 (5% spell haste buff) ?

Is there a link to the 2 Imp Renew/3 Darkness build?

[harky]

1.5 (GCD) / 1.14 (BT) / 1.02 (Darkness) / 1.05 (buff) = 1.2285616000786279424050321883139

This truncates to 1.2286, which is 22.86% haste. This is the amount of haste needed on gear to hit the GCD cap with BT up. It takes 32.79 rating for 1%, so that's 750.

951 is without the 5% buff, yes, but why would you intentionally gear yourself to make up for bad raid comps?

[Popesickle]

I found this build, but it seems weird that they are not getting 6% healing, is this the 31/2/3 build you were talking about:

http://www.wowhead.com/talent#bbGsrosMfoMobZh

[harky]

That's a screwy build in general. :P No BT? Archangel without Atonement?

www.wowhead.com/talent#bfhcrosbcorobZh

That's what I was using when trying out Disc. I'm back to Holy/Shadow now, though. The alternate build is simply to move 2 from Imp. Renew to 2 in Emp. Healing. I found I use Renew more than Flash Heal on fights where Disc was worthwhile.

Edit: Fixed the spec I posted.