Engineering nerfed again

[Mossmantle]

I'm still mad at the bg thing, this put salt in the wound...

[Endus]

I wouldn't mind too much if they didn't remove the passive stats. it's just doesn't make sense to balance with other professions
at least the glove tinkers are still there

Unless there are serious buffs in Cat which I highly doubt, Engineering is now possibly the single worst profession for pvp or pve, have to see how they are at release but I suspect engineering is back to the TBC era 'fun quirky USELESS' profession

You're entirely incorrect. Do the math.

The Synapse Springs glove tinker is 480 Intellect for 12 seconds, usable once a minute. That means, used on CD, it's up 1/5th the time. 1/5th of 480 is 96. So the glove tinker alone works out to roughly +96 Int, in value. Possibly slightly less, to allow for slight delays in triggering.

Jewelcrafting? Three gems, each giving you +27 Intellect over the other gems. That's +81 Intellect.

Engineering works out to be the best profession for any caster by a significant margin based only on the glove tinker. Everything else just pushes it even further ahead. Nitro boost being on your belt doesn't matter much; it just means you can't share it with your frag belt or your shield.

I am a bit annoyed that you can't use some of these in rated BGs, but it's an even slate for everyone in that case.

[harky]

Most PVE people won't be wanting Engineering anyway as it isn't a primary stat granting profession. For PVP all the serious PVP disallows Engineering perks due to not wanting all PVP players to be Engineering. It's not too surprising. They should really reconsider not giving Engineers some compensation in the way of Agi/Str/Stam options for PVE enchants so it's a decent profession, but I'm not holding my breath. I switched my two Engineers to JC as soon as the beta professions were released to avoid dealing with it..

[Mossmantle]

You can't use rocket boosts in rated bgs or arena. So nothing really changed. Plus we get cogwheels. 3 of them. They didn't really nerf anything your just retarded.

I think loss of fun utility and toys to make place for jewelcrafting IS a nerf. If I wanted special gems I'd take JC...

[Simca]

Most PVE people won't be wanting Engineering anyway as it isn't a primary stat granting profession. For PVP all the serious PVP disallows Engineering perks due to not wanting all PVP players to be Engineering. It's not too surprising. They should really reconsider not giving Engineers some compensation in the way of Agi/Str/Stam options for PVE enchants so it's a decent profession, but I'm not holding my breath. I switched my two Engineers to JC as soon as the beta professions were released to avoid dealing with it..

You may want to read the post right above you.

Engineering is still one of the best professions in the game, even in PvE.

For casters, there is NO comparison, Engineering beats out everything else and allows for higher burst DPS.

[Algore]

You will not be able to use lvl 80 engi stuffs at 85 as I'm concerned...and what I know, there is no Nitro Boosts lvl 85 version?

[Simca]

You will not be able to use lvl 80 engi stuffs at 85 as I'm concerned...and what I know, there is no Nitro Boosts lvl 85 version?

Yes, you are allowed to use the level 80 stuff at 85.

[Sevenfold]

it gives u skills from other class's basically which gives u a edge over most people

And you really don't see what would lead them to nerf it?

[Algore]

Yes, you are allowed to use the level 80 stuff at 85.

But why would you? They will surely cook up something new for engineers? maybe some kind of haste thing ... ?

[Deleted]

Cunts.

[Fenixdown]

yay gems... fuck the gems engineering is fun because it gives u well lets c

shit hes running from me rocket boots ur on them agin ur taken 2 much damage mc them save ur self and the rocket oh the fun

it gives u skills from other class's basically which gives u a edge over most people

Okay, engineers.

Take the last QQ portion out of this man's post like I did and read this thing again.

And again.

And again.

And if you're still not understanding, keep reading it.

Until you finally get exactly WHY engineering got nerfed.

Sigh...you won't understand. I'll just highlight it for you.

"it gives u skills from other class's basically which gives u a edge over most people"

Once more.

"it gives u skills from other class's basically which gives u a edge over most people"

Getting it yet? No? Okay, we'll try this just one more time.

"it gives u skills from other class's basically which gives u a edge over most people"

Do we get it yet? Probably not. So here, I'll explain further.

There's this magical thing called BALANCE. It's supposed to exist in PvP, but it has always been teetering on the edge of ever really being there. Now, let's imagine you're on the other side of this man's post. Let's say you are the one he is fighting, and let's say he is...a paladin. Okay, so you're going into this fight against this paladin and knowing his strengths and weaknesses. He's holding his own, and you may have bitten off more than you can chew. You know his stun and judgements are both on cooldown, so you start to retreat to safer distance and to look for some potential backup.

Then this paladin, who has no speed increase, suddenly runs up at you like a bat out of hell. You've barely gotten any chance to recover, but you're now forced to hold your ground whether you want to or not. Your recovery helped greatly, because in that time you've managed to turn the tide of the fight into something more in your favor.

Then this paladin, who has zero mind control abilities...mind controls you.

Now, let's think of exactly why that isn't balanced.

At all.

And can never be.

Since paladins can't use mind control or Sprint. And shouldn't be able to in a PvP situation.

Suck it up, engineers. Your profession wasn't nerfed. It was balanced around all the other ones. For too long it went unchecked in this expansion, and it got completely out of control.

Deal with being like one of the rest of us that don't have technologically-created superpowers.

[wicker]

balanced LOL this game is far from it any ways and lets c if u dont want 2 have a edge over some 1 thats ur fault not mine

so y agin do i get ass fucked 4 this?

[Angry Archer]

I'm still mad at the bg thing, this put salt in the wound...

QFT
They just didnt nerf engineer pvpers, they outright fucked them

---------- Post added 2010-11-24 at 04:08 PM ----------

Newsflash, Engineer was billed from Release as being a 'very expensive, very powerful profession' . It was advertised as THE PvP profession.

Heres another tip, people can raise Engineering all they want on any class and any race.

[thundercles]

Engineering is only OP in a 1v1 situation. If you spend a great deal of time in 1v1 situations, you're doing it wrong.

BGs aren't meant for you to run around HKing and 1v1ing for 20 minutes at a time.

Someone rocket boots? You have classes that can counter.
I can't tell you how many times I've been rooted, feared, or deathgripped as I was trying to rocket boot away.

Mindcontrol? It's dispellable. Where are you're teammates and why are you fighting off by yourself in the first place?
Don't QQ that the other guy is too strong, you're doing it wrong.

The claims of OP'dness is blown way the hell out of proportion. Every single time the argument is made people all of a sudden pretend that BG's are 1v1 battles when in every other post they scream about how balance in wow comes in a group and NEVER individually.

The other faulty argument is that everyone will feel forced to go ENGI for pvp. Which is just another assumption based on generalizations. Plenty of people will prefer to use other professions because they just like them more, they use them for PvE, or they just don't want to regrind.

There was no decent reason to nerf ENGI the way they did. Every single ability that you can complain about has a hard counter. It's YOUR FAULT if you run off by yourself to fight the lone engi pally. It's YOUR TEAMS fault if they leave you to kill the enemy by yourself.

The nerfs weren't needed and aren't justified except by assumptions based on the wrong way to play the game.

Engineering was never about gems or stats. It was about gadgets. Since day one that was all it was ever about. Now they've changed it so much that it feels pointless to keep the prof over something like Alch or JCing. Unless you're a caster and the gloves are great for you. But most people get screwed.

[Mixxy]

thundercles summed it up pretty damn well. 1-v-1, Engineering may have had an advantage. But NOTHING is supposed to be balanced around 1-v-1. Why, so suddenly, are Engineers?

Let's say you are the one he is fighting, and let's say he is...a paladin. Okay, so you're going into this fight against this paladin and knowing his strengths and weaknesses. He's holding his own, and you may have bitten off more than you can chew. You know his stun and judgements are both on cooldown, so you start to retreat to safer distance and to look for some potential backup.

Ain't seen someone outrun a Pally to date, unless they had Engineering.

Then this paladin, who has no speed increase,

Up-to-date knowledge, ftw?

suddenly runs up at you like a bat out of hell. You've barely gotten any chance to recover, but you're now forced to hold your ground whether you want to or not. Your recovery helped greatly, because in that time you've managed to turn the tide of the fight into something more in your favor.

Or he shoots straight up about a hundred feet and you can practically WALK to safety while he flies.

Also... you're saying you've now nearly beaten this Pally, TWICE, in 1-on-1, while he has such a huge advantage (Engineering)?

And you're saying it's the OTHER guy that needs a nerf?

Then this paladin, who has zero mind control abilities...mind controls you.

Or, you know, it backfires and you MC him. That MC actually had a pretty damn high failure chance.

Now, let's think of exactly why that isn't balanced.

Suck it up, engineers. Your profession wasn't nerfed. It was balanced around all the other ones. For too long it went unchecked in this expansion, and it got completely out of control.

So now, Engineers get a Parachute. And nothing else. Compared to the rather large stat bonus provided by other professions. Especially JC.

Deal with being like one of the rest of us that don't have technologically-created superpowers.

Now, this is the main mistake people like you always make. PVP IS ONLY HALF OF THIS DAMN GAME'S CONTENT. Get that through your head, for the love of god.

None of the "superpowers" that you're bitching about are usable in Rated BG's or Arena anymore anyways. There was NO reason for the MASSIVE PvE nerf that we got. Engineering has ALWAYS been the worst profession for Raiding, and it's just gotten worse.

THAT is why most people are upset. As an Engineer, I couldn't use MC Helm, Rocket Boots, Belt Shield, or ANY of my little tricks in PvP. They were ONLY usable in PvE (or world PvP at best)...
So riddle me this... Why should my Raiding suffer because of an Engineering "problem" in PvP that HAD ALREADY been "solved"?

[Spectrez]

Oh.... I thought this was a bug... It doesn't make sense having to put boosts on your belt and have you RUN faster. I didn't know belts were on your feet....

[thundercles]

Now, let's think of exactly why that isn't balanced.

At all.

And can never be.

No. You're incredibly wrong. Each ability that you think is so OP has a hard counter. It's your own damn fault for running out to fight that pally by yourself. Why even play a team based game if you want to spend the whole BG 1v1ing.

The balance comes from having a team.

[Angry Archer]

Engineering is only OP in a 1v1 situation. If you spend a great deal of time in 1v1 situations, you're doing it wrong.

BGs aren't meant for you to run around HKing and 1v1ing for 20 minutes at a time.

Someone rocket boots? You have classes that can counter.
I can't tell you how many times I've been rooted, feared, or deathgripped as I was trying to rocket boot away.

Mindcontrol? It's dispellable. Where are you're teammates and why are you fighting off by yourself in the first place?
Don't QQ that the other guy is too strong, you're doing it wrong.

The claims of OP'dness is blown way the hell out of proportion. Every single time the argument is made people all of a sudden pretend that BG's are 1v1 battles when in every other post they scream about how balance in wow comes in a group and NEVER individually.

The other faulty argument is that everyone will feel forced to go ENGI for pvp. Which is just another assumption based on generalizations. Plenty of people will prefer to use other professions because they just like them more, they use them for PvE, or they just don't want to regrind.

There was no decent reason to nerf ENGI the way they did. Every single ability that you can complain about has a hard counter. It's YOUR FAULT if you run off by yourself to fight the lone engi pally. It's YOUR TEAMS fault if they leave you to kill the enemy by yourself.

The nerfs weren't needed and aren't justified except by assumptions based on the wrong way to play the game.

Engineering was never about gems or stats. It was about gadgets. Since day one that was all it was ever about. Now they've changed it so much that it feels pointless to keep the prof over something like Alch or JCing. Unless you're a caster and the gloves are great for you. But most people get screwed.

great post

[Resies]

Tundercles you make my head hurt. Your post makes the assumption that one person has engineering.

[Bakis]

yeah, but look at what they're getting in cataclysm, their own "gems" i think that makes up for the rocket boots issue, especially if you're also a jc.

Since there will be no new headpieces every tier engi will suck.
Cogwheels and Goggles will be good the first raid (think Naxx) and utterly useless the rest.
BLZ sure fucked up engi so bad its laughable.