Are 25man Guilds A Dying Breed?

[Aeilth]

So, it seems like 25man guilds at least on my server a struggling more and more to be able to raid.

In the last week the only 3 alliance guilds doing 25man have not been able to get enough people on to raid. Recruiting people for 25man has become ever more difficult. Guild mergers are difficult as well as we all raid at different times
.
It really seems to me that the new 10man system is slowly killing 25man guilds.

MOD EDIT: Do not turn this into a 10 vs 25. Next person who speaks on the subject will get this locked.

[Vook]

No, 25man "bread" is not dying. It's whole wheat, so it can't die.

Anyways, Your server =/= The rest of the world

And with 10mans being harder than 25 (for the most part), that's all the more incentive to do 25.

[Calzaeth]

No, they aren't dying as far as I am aware. They just don't bother recruiting as much, since they have all the members they need, and new players probably feel more attracted to 10-man.

Side note: I admit I only opened this thread to make a "bread"-joke, but Vook beat me to it =(

[slyy]

Yes, it is very likely that 25man will go away.
The merging the achievs together is the 1st step.
I believe 25mans almost didn't make it into the cataclysm formula.

[Valanna]

And with 10mans being harder than 25 (for the most part).

Wait, what?

[Silentshank]

my 10 man guild actually merged with another guild and we are now doing 25 mans

[Splenda]

I'm in a guild that does both 10s and 25s, with emphasis on 25. Not sure what the rest of my realm is like, but there you are.

[Kiteh]

This happens every expansion, guilds reach a point where the content becomes almost too challenging for certain players, and those players decide that IRL is more important, thus forcing the rest of their guild into looking at other options.

Since Blizzard have introduced char transfer services and such, there really isn't any reason why 25 man guilds would have trouble recruiting.

If anything, I am finding it harder to get into a 25 man guild as competition is so fierce for those spots.

[Stixxz]

No it's not.

[Shadamehr]

Wait, what?

25 mans, though having more to do to down a boss, have redundancy built into them, you can afford deaths, in 10 mans you cant.
That's probably what he's getting at (*).

(*) Unless things have changed since WotLK, in that Blizzard have so finely tuned 25 mans now in Cataclysm that it is no longer the case.

[Lacerta]

More loot, more VPs, several fights are actually easier; I'd say 25m is doing just fine. And that's without factoring how they may (read probably) make legendaries quicker to obtain in 25m format.

As more and more guilds are getting into hardmodes they are, no matter the format, experiencing pressure they didn't feel from relatively easy WotLK content. Whether more 25m are dying than 10m, I don't know, but there are still a lot of reasons to keep raiding 25m and I don't see them dying off.

[Xpace]

Damn it, OP updated the title. I was just about to start...

At the moment, 25-man raids have progressed much, much faster than 10-man raids. 25-man raids have way more flexibility, way more versatility. There are several bosses in Heroic-10 where I feel like I'm dragging the raid down if I'm not a certain spec with certain talents, or certain stat priorities/enchants/gems/reforges; and other raid members share similar thoughts. The "bring the player, not the class" mantra applies to 25-man, but it's lost to me in 10-man. Despite all the 'homogenization' we're seeing, there are still times where you really can't succeed without a certain comp or bringing a certain spec. This may also be true in 25-man, but it's far less reaching than in 10-man.

[Deleted]

Wait, what?

A 25 man raid will have healer cooldown for every feud, every maloriak red phase, etc, you quite possibly wont have a tranq/bubble/cd for each time in 10 man so it has to be brute force healed without. There is also the smaller roster issue, unlike if you where a 25 man guild in wrath that also ran 10 mans you could just pick the classes you need per encounter, for example disc priests for heroic LK. your 10 man roster may not be able to support this if you only active player of a particular class isnt available and it would be unfair to recruit a class just for one fight.

There have also been some tanking and mob HP scaling issues in 10 man heroic that have for the most part been fixed.

It's not my place to state 10 man is harder than 25 since I have only raided 10 man content in Cata, but in general it's accepted that some are easier on 10 man (e.g. Alakir, Ascendant Council), and some are easier on 25 (e.g. Halfus, V&T, Chogall).

[Grissym]

25 mans, though having more to do to down a boss, have redundancy built into them, you can afford deaths, in 10 mans you cant.
That's probably what he's getting at (*).

(*) Unless things have changed since WotLK, in that Blizzard have so finely tuned 25 mans now in Cataclysm that it is no longer the case.

I'm fairly certain there's been hundreds, if not thousands, of discussions that have come to the conclusion that there are specific fights that are harder on 25m, and some that are harder on 10m. Everyone will agree though that 10m is less forgiving, but alas the rest of my comment stands.

[krematoa]

I would say yes
my server (balnazzar EU) went from having somewhat 12-13 hordeguildes 4-5 maybe 6 alliance guildes that did 25man in intro content in wrath.
althought wrath intro was very easy intro content now we have 3 horde guildes doing 25man and I think we still got 1 alliance guild doing 25mans

[grandpab]

I don't think so. Leveling a guild in a 10 man is a lot of work, in a 25 man you've got so many people you don't even have to try to cap every day and it happens.

Plus its a lot easier to have and maintain a bench in a 25 man, and 25 man fights are easier.

I left a 25 man guild before cata to start a 10 man guild with some friends, a few weeks ago 1 player quit and it resulted in our guild breaking up. We were 3/13, 2nd on our server and top 100 in us for 10 mans and everyone was expecting us to keep getting further, but 1 player quit and we couldn't replace him soon enough so a healer server transfered and that caused everyone else to move on to a 25 man guild.

At this point I couldn't care less though, all I do is raid and even that doesn't really do it for me.

[Hulm]

I'm in 1 of 3 guilds that run 25 mans still on my server, out of approximately 15 noteworthy guilds (ie beat chogall) but all 3 are also the top 3 guilds overall on the realm.

[Vlob]

Hmmm, kinda, but not dieing, just something you have to look a little harder to find. Like Waldo!

[Acidd06]

25mans are easier for a lot of fights.

[Mojo7423]

I for one can give a little proof about 25man guilds not raiding much. the guild I am in ran 25s all throughout BC and Wrath with 10mans on the side. Now we struggle to get 2 10mans going during the week. It looks like only the diehards or other guilds with enough ppl are doing 25man runs.