Guild Wars 2: The One Thread

[Maarius]

The crowd control resistance of mobs is I think a more critical flaw in game design. It makes it so that all direct encounters are essentially strafe-a-thons. I have rarely met anything in the game that is not defeated by circle strafing it till it dies. Yet a good bulk of one's skill bar is taken up by either CC or positional skills.

Only time strafing is not the most powerful tool in the game is when a gimmick is employed; lighting a cannon, tossing a rock or training slimes, etc. They literally can not create their encounters in any other way due to the fundamental design of action combat Anet are trying to reconcile with static based devices like, DOTs.

Why even bother? Why even lock my action bar?

It's just sorta dumb.A big, dumb action game.

Your disrespect for the game is highly annoying Fencers. You're in a fan sub-forum, what are you trying to achieve?

How would you change the crowd control system without allowing players to 100% stunlock the enemy? I'm aware that you know tons of MMOs, how do other games solve this problem?

[Meledelion]

"100% stunlock the enemy?"

This is already a thing, terrormancer + hambow is all you need. Thieves can immobilise/stunlock for quite some time, especially vs certain classes that give more CC (like necromancer) and so on.

[Deleted]

i started playing again recently after not playing for 2 years and i've only really done wvw so far.
anything pve that has happened in those 2 years that's worth checking out?

I would suggest to take a look here at reddit, they've got it all in one big list for you =D
- http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/w...turningplayers

We are now at Season 2 of the Living World Story.

[Maarius]

"100% stunlock the enemy?"

This is already a thing, terrormancer + hambow is all you need. Thieves can immobilise/stunlock for quite some time, especially vs certain classes that give more CC (like necromancer) and so on.

well I was talking about the defiance problem which is apparent at boss-fights. Fencers was talking about the crowd control resistance of mobs, so I was assuming she meant the defiance buff on bosses.

[lawow74]

It's just sorta dumb. A big, dumb action game.

I think you overstated your case with this. The rest was sufficient and much more cogent and polite.

Strafing is good, yes, but there are knockdown/push/pull mechanics sprinkled in amongst the general run of mobs, with dashes of stun and immobilize conditions thrown in.

I do agree the aggressive denial of CC evinced in champ and legendary foes/world bosses is annoying when the fight generally dissolves into a particle-blob zerg that completely undercuts the fight mechanics(Svanir Shaman is a prime example of this, do it just after the daily reset for maximum effect). It would be nice if interrupts or other mechanics had more of a role, but that seems counterproductive to the general impetus of auto-1-to-win that open world grouping favors.

Overall I'm not unhappy with unchallenging content as long as it entertains me to do it, and as long as they keep adding story content to experience, I'll keep playing it.

[Exroyal]

Am i the only one here who wants 'type'-damage? Fire abilties dealing increased dmg towards plant and frost creatures. Blunt dmg dealing increased dmg towards metal and stone enemies etc and vice versa. They had it in GW1 and i loved it.

[Maarius]

Am i the only one here who wants 'type'-damage? Fire abilties dealing increased dmg towards plant and frost creatures. Blunt dmg dealing increased dmg towards metal and stone enemies etc and vice versa. They had it in GW1 and i loved it.

having this comes with a price though. Dungeons with plant monsters will greatly favour the fire-damage builds/professions, all others are 2nd citizens. Anet wants to avoid such szenarios where unusual non cookie cutter builds will have to wait for having fun (waiting in the lfg queues to be chosen the least wanted).

The way it is now every profession can bring something useful to a dungeon run.

[Exroyal]

Yea i see that point, but the dmg shouldn't be godlike vs others and as it stands now, there isn't really that many build variations anyways

[nevermore]

Well, if they didn't have a cap, stacks would reach such numbers the boss would fall over in five seconds and everyone would stack condi dmg/duration for bleeds. I wish there was a compromise of some sort, but no decent solution seems forthcoming.

While I'm no theorycrafter, I highly doubt a fully damage-oriented condition necro would do significantly more damage than, say, a fully damage-oriented staff elementalist at equal gear levels. (Meledelion?)

So a condition fix would achieve only 1 thing: condition specs would be able to reach their actual potential instead of being artificially throttled by a lazy system design.

If that requires bosses to be buffed a little, so be it. But I really don't think it would be a significant issue.
I mean the whole thing is ridiculous. Some weapons/traits/gear should come with a disclaimer: "You do 90% less damage on bosses because we're lazy and cba fixing our game lol"

[lawow74]

While I'm no theorycrafter, I highly doubt a fully damage-oriented condition necro would do significantly more damage than, say, a fully damage-oriented staff elementalist at equal gear levels. (Meledelion?)

But it's not so much about any one char but ALL the chars. Imagine if there was no stack cap on bleeds, how high that could go with dozens of chars slamming the boss, especially if people tune themselves towards it. I don't know how much damage that could add, but it seems to me it would be pretty ridiculous.

[nevermore]

But it's not so much about any one char but ALL the chars. Imagine if there was no stack cap on bleeds, how high that could go with dozens of chars slamming the boss, especially if people tune themselves towards it. I don't know how much damage that could add, but it seems to me it would be pretty ridiculous.

Yes, but that means that all classes are performing how they should.

I guess 10 necros would do a pretty badass bleed stack, but how is it different from 10 elementalists showing up and throwing fireballs at the boss?
It's not. It's just damage.

[Gray_Matter]

But it's not so much about any one char but ALL the chars. Imagine if there was no stack cap on bleeds, how high that could go with dozens of chars slamming the boss, especially if people tune themselves towards it. I don't know how much damage that could add, but it seems to me it would be pretty ridiculous.

I don't think that's the problem at all. Whether it's one player or 100 players, the principle is the same. A person can chose to do X damage up front or X/30 damage every second for 30 seconds. My guess is that the problem is more a technical one. Trying to keep track of 50+ or even 100+ stacks of 25 for each condition type. Each one would need to have a time when it would expire, etc.

[carnifex2005]

RIP Amber Farm.

Bug Fix:

Fixed a bug in which Lost Bandit Chests near Amber Sandfall spawned too fast and too numerously.


It was rather ridiculous. I got about 200 champ bags in about two hours of playing last night at Amber. Singlehandedly dropped silk about 50%.

[Svifnymr]

Everyone knew it was coming, surprised it took as long as it did. I think the bigger issue really was getting so many badges to buy keys in a never ending cycle.

[Fencers]

Your disrespect for the game is highly annoying Fencers. You're in a fan sub-forum, what are you trying to achieve?

There is no requirement to respect media. One should always, always, approach the media they consume with cynicism, mistrust.

As a consumer of media and art the most important question one can ask is: "What is being represented here that is not represented better elsewhere?" This the essence of critical thought.

In speaking or commenting on any game I seek to put forth well considered thought and a thoroughness of understanding for the medium I am speaking upon. In communicating with others, I seek the absolution of my ignorance.

How would you change the crowd control system without allowing players to 100% stunlock the enemy?

I would let crowd control state count up to effect. Also I think a good tie in rather than the intensity based system used for conditions is to move toward a magnitude based system in tandem with a count up to effect mechanic.

Games are aggressively and singularly about their rules of operation."Bad" game design is simply contradictory design of mechanics. The diminishing return/immune system currently the negates the 2/3d of everything you are able to even do in combat. Why do you even have those attributes if they are only useful some of the time? Or at best, leveraged against lesser threats?

I think you overstated your case with this. The rest was sufficient and much more cogent and polite.

Implying a "big dumb action game" is inherently negative is a misreading and poor understanding as taking to task the Bang's quote of the Ramones being "stoopid".

[Maarius]

I agree with the increase of the condition stacks like bleed-stack, if you switch between all condition-oriented players in a zerg and direct damage players, the difference shouldn't be considerable higher then.

Anet stated that it's a technical problem, so I guess the solution would be a workaround rather than an infinite amount of stackable conditions on a boss.

What if 25 stacks of bleeding would do 2 things:
1.) Reset the bleed stack to 0
2.) Adds a new condition (Hemorrhage) which does something new

- - - Updated - - -

In my opinion if you want to discuss a game with supporters of that game you should respect the game and it's supporters to make a constructive environment possible. You can still keep your critical approach, that's not a bad thing.

I would let crowd control state count up to effect. Also I think a good tie in rather than the intensity based system used for conditions is to move toward a magnitude based system in tandem with a count up to effect mechanic.

Can you elaborate with an example? "Count up to effect"..., do you mean that crowd control immunity should last as long as a certain number of cc-attacks is reached, and from there on cc is possible? That would be the way defiance already works. From the wiki:

Stacks of defiance can be removed with additional control effects, and once all stacks are removed, the creature is vulnerable to control effects once again, and the cycle repeats. When no stacks of defiance are present, a control skill can apply control to the creature, but it will also apply defiance, preventing further crowd control from being applied until removed. For example, interrupting will have no effect unless no defiance is present; if no defiance is present, the creature can be interrupted but this will immediately apply more defiance.

As I'm not an english native speaker I have problems understanding the difference between the word "intensity" and "magnitude", do you have an example?

[Gray_Matter]

Everyone knew it was coming, surprised it took as long as it did. I think the bigger issue really was getting so many badges to buy keys in a never ending cycle.

Yes, the bags were too cheap. I picked up about 600 odd bags over the weekend. That and about 250 odd obsidian shards, a chunk of Twisters, etc from the chests. You pretty much got back the badges from opening the chest so they were free.

[worprz]

well these other ways would be constantly new content instead of having a new raid every year. Yes, we had a break lately, but we got really polished content because of it.

Personally I enjoyed the hell out of the new episode. People telling me they stopped playing after 2 hours just don't want to play Guildwars 2. It's as simple as that. There's a huge variety of things to do in the game, a lot of them can be repeated infinitely while being fun when playing with others. Some guys here seem to forget that, just looking for gear upgrades and leaving when this stops.

Sure, some guys only have fun when they find new gear upgrades... well, that's not was GW2 is about.

I'm amazed how many people don't get GW2 and want it to be an other mmo. They are offended if you tell them "maybe this game isn't for you", they stay and keep criticising the game over and over instead of finding the game that is designed with it's own ideals in mind.

Oh I loved this new episode, I can't seem to play more than just the story though. It might be that I am just burned out from the game a little. I am considering leveling a new character to get back in the game.

[Deleted]

It's just sorta dumb. A big, dumb action game.

Maybe you should take a step back and look what you are writing - Really no need for this.

[Fkiolaris]

As I'm not an english native speaker I have problems understanding the difference between the word "intensity" and "magnitude", do you have an example?

I am not native either, but my take on Fencer's proposal is perhaps for a system like Interrupt Armour from Wildstar (or perhaps even the system for Nightmare Bosses in The Secret World).

In Wildstar many high-level mobs have (had? I haven't played for a while) a shield with a specific number on it. This number indicated how many "layers" of CC/interrupt immunity the mob had and in effect have many CC/interrupts had to be used in order to remove this stack of protective layers so that the mob can actually be then CCed or interrupted. The catch is that every layer removed starts a short timer before it gets re-applied, so you had to co-ordinate your CC/interrupts in order to all hit almost together and remove the protection while also making sure you have a CC/interrupt left to actually do the job. That was actually one of the more interesting group mechanics they introduced and I believe that for GW2 it would work well simply because I find the game and the engine responsive enough.

In TSW the system with Nightmare bosses is the reverse: the boss can be CC/interrupted/slowed two times before a longish timer starts that gives the boss complete immunity to any of these effects. So at NM dungeons only the tank would usually take these kind of skills so that they would have control over what boss abilities they want to counter. On the other hand, it made a lot of DPS decks obsolete since they were built around slows (primarily) and CC, but the ability-wheel of that game is meant for experimentation so that was not an issue. I don't think this system would work in GW2 since most of the "difficult" content is free-for-all and you can't expect random people to adjust in random groups with random mobs. It is something though they can use in case they introduce instanced raids.

Anyway, that's my take on it.