[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[Tekkommo]

....The Lannisters were at KL with Tywin.

I clicked back on further quotes, I now see you weren't talking about people in KL.

My bad.

[eschatological]

.....yes they did. They went with the Starks and Baratheons etc.

No, their lords went with the Starks and Baratheons, and they were compelled to fight for their lords.


This is why I tell people to pay attention to A Feast For Crows. It's all about the smallfolk.

[Collegeguy]

The problem was, D&D were never good writers to begin with. Seriously, look at their resume pre-GoT. They were handed the reigns of a "niche fantasy adaptation" by HBO who probably didn't think it would get off the ground, at least not to this extent, since fantasy is always a gamble. And they were able to adapt it reasonably well with GRRM's help (he consulted on early seasons, and even wrote an episode a season), and that's about all they've been able to do.

Pretty clear at this point they don't deserve GOT on their resume since they couldn't really write anything without source material.

[RobertoCarlos]

The problem was, D&D were never good writers to begin with. Seriously, look at their resume pre-GoT. They were handed the reigns of a "niche fantasy adaptation" by HBO who probably didn't think it would get off the ground, at least not to this extent, since fantasy is always a gamble. And they were able to adapt it reasonably well with GRRM's help (he consulted on early seasons, and even wrote an episode a season), and that's about all they've been able to do.

Surprised people also dont mention how the first GoT pilot they shot was such a mess they had to re-do the whole thing and make it more clear Jamie and Cersei were brother and sister so the end of episode reveal was actually relevant.

[MatadorMedia]

So, if Jon finally mans up and murders Daenerys that will make him ruler of the 7 Kingdoms. But it will also make him the new Khal of the remaining Dothraki forces. I wonder if this means we'll see a Dothraki vs Unsullied fight because Grey Worm will be hella pissed about Dany dying. Or if the showrunners will forget that Khals are a thing in GOT.

If the spoilers are correct and Jon really "takes the black" after killing Daenerys, then this really is a down-the-toilet ending. There is no more Night's Watch. At best, you could exile him into the wildling territory, which would work, but there's no reason for him to man the wall. I hope the leaks are so very wrong on all accounts.

[Waynhim]

So, if Jon finally mans up and murders Daenerys that will make him ruler of the 7 Kingdoms

My 2 cents is that it'll be Tyrion, in good old fashioned Caesar/Brutus-style, since he has been the one most conflicted about Daenerys this season, even since the Tarlys come to think of it. After the last episode I think he regretted not backing Varys.

[tehealadin]

My 2 cents is that it'll be Tyrion, in good old fashioned Caesar/Brutus-style, since he has been the one most conflicted about Daenerys this season, even since the Tarlys come to think of it. After the last episode I think he regretted not backing Varys.

He would be a good king. Whether or not people would take to him is another matter. He has empathy for the small folk, a soft spot for cripples, bastards and broken things. Something massively lacking from the nobility in Westeros. He is one of the few to experience injustice and prejudice, he knows what it is like to be chewed up by forces greater than him, to an extent which most nobles don't. This, added to his cunning and knowledge of the game would make him a great ruler imo. However that would be too neat, he is the imp and the world is cruel.

I don't think Jon will be king. I think Dany will either kill him, or he will end up back north, not in Winterfell, but the "true north", this is probably the place where he most belongs. I think his farewell scane with Tormind could be some not so subtle foreshadowing. I still think the most likely ending is tyrant Dany. Though I want them to use Bran in some way.

[Sooba]

Indeed. She had the idea to burn the keep, and was stopped by her advisors. Her deciding to sod their advice now after living through several losses, regardless of the fact that the Lannisters surrendered and the Keep is packed full of commoners, would make perfect sense as a descent into cold ruthlessness that could be interpreted as villainy but also justifiable in some way. It would also definitely fulfill the "rule with fear" conclusion that she came to this episode.

That's not what she did. She ignored the Keep -her primary objective- in favor of torching random nobodies. Not only is there no rhyme or reason to it, Dany ignoring those who wronged her is indeed something very out of character I find. Hell had she torched the Keep before then incinerated King's Landing I'd have far fewer qualms even if the end result is the same.

YES! Thank you! People arguing that this is a logical extension of her past are completely missing the point. This is a poorly executed heel turn completely out of proportion with her past actions. And in doing so, she actually put herself in a worse situation wrt to keeping the throne. As someone else said, unless she plans on staying on that dragon's back forever, she's screwed. And she would know that. She has effectively lost the support of the people she is supposedly attempting to cow with this nonsense.

Had she burned the keep in spectacular fashion, there would have been collateral, but people would have justified her actions in the same way as all her past ones. She's scary, but just stay out of her way. Burning the keep would have been in line with the severity of her actions before. This turn to genocide is ridiculous, and the people in this thread who are in essence arguing that it's a logical next step have lost all sense of scale and proportion.

[Endus]

YES! Thank you! People arguing that this is a logical extension of her past are completely missing the point. This is a poorly executed heel turn completely out of proportion with her past actions. And in doing so, she actually put herself in a worse situation wrt to keeping the throne. As someone else said, unless she plans on staying on that dragon's back forever, she's screwed. And she would know that. She has effectively lost the support of the people she is supposedly attempting to cow with this nonsense.

Had she burned the keep in spectacular fashion, there would have been collateral, but people would have justified her actions in the same way as all her past ones. She's scary, but just stay out of her way. Burning the keep would have been in line with the severity of her actions before. This turn to genocide is ridiculous, and the people in this thread who are in essence arguing that it's a logical next step have lost all sense of scale and proportion.

You folks making these kinds of arguments, you realize you're all basing them off the presumption that Daenerys gives any shits about the people, that she's a good and compassionate person?

Because that's a presumption that has essentially zero basis in the actual show and the presentation of her character. It's something you wanted to believe was true, but it never has been.

[Independent voter]

It's not just bad storytelling—it’s because the storytelling style changed from sociological to psychological

In sociological storytelling, the characters have personal stories and agency, of course, but those are also greatly shaped by institutions and events around them. The incentives for characters’ behavior come noticeably from these external forces, too, and even strongly influence their inner life.

The preference for the individual and psychological narrative is understandable: the story is easier to tell as we gravitate toward identifying with the hero or hating the antihero, at the personal level. We are, after all, also persons!


https://blogs.scientificamerican.com...me-of-thrones/

Long article in Scientific American about "The Real Reason Fans Hate the Last Season of Game of Thrones"

[Tekkommo]

Long article in Scientific American about "The Real Reason Fans Hate the Last Season of Game of Thrones"

Had a browse of the website because I found Scientific American amusing.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ullout-method/

The fuck lol.

[Ihavewaffles]

Lets bask in the glory of Mace "the Ace" Tyrell!

[eschatological]

Reading some of y'all's theories after reading the leaks makes me shake my head in a combination of sadness and amusement, because everything y'all are suggesting in this thread is infinitely better than what the leaks suggest will happen.

[Celista]

Reading some of y'all's theories after reading the leaks makes me shake my head in a combination of sadness and amusement, because everything y'all are suggesting in this thread is infinitely better than what the leaks suggest will happen.

I've read at least 4-5 different "leaks" that people are saying are the real deal. Which ones are you referring to?

[-aiko-]

Worth a watch. I don't agree with everything but he does a good job explaining the Mad Dany shitshow and why it doesn't work.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I've read at least 4-5 different "leaks" that people are saying are the real deal. Which ones are you referring to?

The confirmed one on r/FreeFolk from three weeks back

Spoiler: 

[Ihavewaffles]

To borrow a scene from Lawrence of Arabia, it would have been more fitting for Missandei to die at least in the same episode, it's dis-connected otherwise... just before Daenerys decides to burn the city, but that would have been stupid even for Cersei..or she could have had at least one scorpion at the red keep, why they didn't have I don't know since Daenerys could just fly high n down towards the red keep avoiding all AA defenses n burning Cersei...



He said "No prisoners!" But I hope no goats got hurt..

..I couldn't find a longer clip, but before Talal attacks the Turks on his own, there was a prior scene where Lawrence n co came upon his ruined village. So, having the Lannisters do something bad just before the attack on King's Landing would have been good to justify why Daenery's armies got worked up, well they had 8 seasons of why they were worked up, but try telling that to the average viewer...

[Celista]

The confirmed one on r/FreeFolk from three weeks back

Spoiler: 

That seems like the best possible ending, sans Jon taking the black. Jaime didn't have to take the black, why does Jon?

[Gorsameth]

That seems like the best possible ending, sans Jon taking the black. Jaime didn't have to take the black, why does Jon?

He doesn't have to, but he will probably want it. There is nothing left for him in the 7 kingdoms.

[Celista]

He doesn't have to, but he will probably want it. There is nothing left for him in the 7 kingdoms.

Seems too punitive to me as it is a life sentence.