World of Logs

[Afflictid]

The reduced cooldown on Tranq got rid of that weakness.

[Kelesti]

The reduced cooldown on Tranq got rid of that weakness.

Because people are only at risk of dying once every three minutes. Right?

[Mazi]

Because people are only at risk of dying once every three minutes. Right?

RIGHT!

​stupid min char limits..

[Jurik]

Pretty much every resto druid cooldown / utility takes the form of more healing which shows up on the meters. Whereas other classes cooldown / utility don't show up on the meters. Spirit link totem, PW:B, AM, wings, sac, inspiration, MTT, an interrupt on a 6 or 10 sec CD, etc etc etc.

Conclusion: HPS meters aren't great way to measure healer strength. Better would be to look at what composition that successful boss-kills are using.

[LeetHaxor]

Pretty much every resto druid cooldown / utility takes the form of more healing which shows up on the meters. Whereas other classes cooldown / utility don't show up on the meters. Spirit link totem, PW:B, AM, wings, sac, inspiration, MTT, an interrupt on a 6 or 10 sec CD, etc etc etc.

Conclusion: HPS meters aren't great way to measure healer strength. Better would be to look at what composition that successful boss-kills are using.

Actually healing from the totem shows up on meters.

[Mazi]

Better would be to look at what composition that successful boss-kills are using.

Which is always going to be a synergy of nearly every type of healer

[Kelesti]

Which is always going to be a synergy of nearly every type of healer

Well, unless you look all the way back to beta.
But even then, us Priests were busting our butts off to get those kills, harder than anyone else.

[Zuziza]

Actually healing from the totem shows up on meters.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=98008

Summons a Spirit Link Totem with 5 health at the feet of the caster. The totem reduces damage taken by all party and raid members within 10 yards by 10%. Every 1 sec, the health of all affected players is redistributed, such that each player ends up with the same percentage of their maximum health. Lasts 6 sec.

If the meter says that this is "healing", then it's also doing just as much "damage" to the raid. It increases healing taken by everyone in the circle, pools their health, and does no actual healing. It balances your raid and helps everyone catch up. One more reason the healing charts should not be at the forefront of your mind.

[Mazi]

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=98008

Summons a Spirit Link Totem with 5 health at the feet of the caster. The totem reduces damage taken by all party and raid members within 10 yards by 10%. Every 1 sec, the health of all affected players is redistributed, such that each player ends up with the same percentage of their maximum health. Lasts 6 sec.

If the meter says that this is "healing", then it's also doing just as much "damage" to the raid. It increases healing taken by everyone in the circle, pools their health, and does no actual healing. It balances your raid and helps everyone catch up. One more reason the healing charts should not be at the forefront of your mind.

Yes it does count as healing, but WoL does not count it towards the Shaman (Recount/Skada do)

[Zuziza]

Yes it does count as healing, but WoL does not count it towards the Shaman (Recount/Skada do)

This strikes me as stupid, and one more reason not to trust charts. Hopefully that meaning behind the post got across. It's definitely a useful CD, but it should not count as a heal when it's just shifting health/damage between raid members. You still have to heal the same amount of health to full, just across more people.

[Mazi]

This strikes me as stupid, and one more reason not to trust charts. Hopefully that meaning behind the post got across. It's definitely a useful CD, but it should not count as a heal when it's just shifting health/damage between raid members. You still have to heal the same amount of health to full, just across more people.

Yeah I agree. And again, this is why meters only mean so much. You CAN tell if someone is a terrible player via meters if they are super behind and/or if they aren't using CDs or keeping up buffs they should be - but overall they don't matter. Every single healing class brings something to the table, and all have strong niches and, as I keep saying, synergy is the most important aspect of raiding in wow.

[[-Spiritus-]]

This strikes me as stupid, and one more reason not to trust charts. Hopefully that meaning behind the post got across. It's definitely a useful CD, but it should not count as a heal when it's just shifting health/damage between raid members. You still have to heal the same amount of health to full, just across more people.

It can be real healing because it is shifting percentages, not total health. So, for example, if SLT is dropped among 2 players with one at 100% and one at 50%, they'll both be at 75% health. Now, if the guy at 100% health has 100,000 maxhealth and the guy at 50% has 200,000 maxhealth, then a total net of 25,000 healing has been done, even though it displays it as 50,000. -------- However, if the two are flipped, SLT can have a actual negative healing amount of -25,000 hp, even though the meters will show +25,000hp healed. So it isn't very cut an dry. [and for some reason I can't make paragraphs].

[Deleted]

Also, the "damage" from SLT can be resisted and mitigated (under a Barrier or nature resistance) which is interesting and also gives a net health benefit.

[Zuziza]

It can be real healing because it is shifting percentages, not total health. So, for example, if SLT is dropped among 2 players with one at 100% and one at 50%, they'll both be at 75% health. Now, if the guy at 100% health has 100,000 maxhealth and the guy at 50% has 200,000 maxhealth, then a total net of 25,000 healing has been done, even though it displays it as 50,000. -------- However, if the two are flipped, SLT can have a actual negative healing amount of -25,000 hp, even though the meters will show +25,000hp healed. So it isn't very cut an dry. [and for some reason I can't make paragraphs].

Ah, I misunderstood and thought it meant it calculated each person's health to a flat number, then redistributed that.

This brings up an interesting issue though; the tanks are likely to be the lowest at the time that a totem is popped, and they have the highest amount of health. It's also never just 2 people. So let's say they did it to help a tank through a particular heavy hit period (Shannox after a dog died for example); most other raiders are at fairly high health, the tank is constantly low. A tank's 50% health is much higher than a raider's 50%, and the number of raiders being brought down to the tank's new health level has to be taken into account as well.

So while it isn't as cut and dry as just redistributing the numbers, it's also not as simple as healing the tank up to raid level. Depending on the number of people in the circle and how much health they have (like, a second tank and all the raid compared to just 2 healers and some DPS), it could go either way, but seems to lean towards slight healing. I'm beginning to see why my guild shaman hates trying to explain all this stuff; messy and complex.

Thing is, recount/WoL/Skada is likely just to count the flat increases in health caused by the totem rather than subtract the health lost by others in the process. =\

[[-Spiritus-]]

I'm beginning to see why my guild shaman hates trying to explain all this stuff; messy and complex.

It's honestly too complex a mechanic for a game like WoW, not in implementation or use, but in understanding [kinda like ArP was].

[Merendel]

Yes it does count as healing, but WoL does not count it towards the Shaman (Recount/Skada do)

Last I looked WOL had a post about how it handled spirit link totem. Instead of counting raw heal from the totem they count only the net healing. Because you can resist or otherwise mitigate the damage portion (its nature damage) WOL takes "Healing done - Damage done = net heal" and adds that result to the shaman. the other addons just ignore all the damage and count the rest as raw heals which is not acurately showing how much healing it actualy did. SL may display 500k healing done but it also damaged for 400k, WOL takes that into account and shows just 100k healing while recount would show the 500k.

[Afflictid]

Because people are only at risk of dying once every three minutes. Right?

My guild runs two druids. It also doesn't change the fact that Holy Priests have nothing to save the raid.

[Zuziza]

Last I looked WOL had a post about how it handled spirit link totem. Instead of counting raw heal from the totem they count only the net healing. Because you can resist or otherwise mitigate the damage portion (its nature damage) WOL takes "Healing done - Damage done = net heal" and adds that result to the shaman. the other addons just ignore all the damage and count the rest as raw heals which is not acurately showing how much healing it actualy did. SL may display 500k healing done but it also damaged for 400k, WOL takes that into account and shows just 100k healing while recount would show the 500k.

Do you happen to have a link to this post?

---------- Post added 2011-07-05 at 04:41 PM ----------

My guild runs two druids. It also doesn't change the fact that Holy Priests have nothing to save the raid.

You keep saying this, and it's total BS. You have Divine Hymn. It's not going to give you as much HPS as Tranquility, but it does group healing and increases the healing done to them by 10%. We've all agreed it could do with a buff, but comparing HPS across druids and holy priests (for spells in general or just CD's) should not be what decides if a raider gets their slot.

If you're having issues with your guild over this, you're either having other issues with healing or your raid leader doesn't know how to judge a healer.

[Afflictid]

You keep saying this, and it's total BS. You have Divine Hymn. It's not going to give you as much HPS as Tranquility, but it does group healing and increases the healing done to them by 10%. We've all agreed it could do with a buff, but comparing HPS across druids and holy priests (for spells in general or just CD's) should not be what decides if a raider gets their slot.

If you're having issues with your guild over this, you're either having other issues with healing or your raid leader doesn't know how to judge a healer.

Divine Hymn is not a raid saving cooldown. All it could be considered is a mana saving cooldown because you are channeling and therefore regening some mana during it.

[Zuziza]

Nvm about the link, it's on the front page, just knocked down a few posts. I was on May 15th.

After researching the details of Spirit Link and brainstorming on the problem at hand, we decided that what we really wanted was for WoL to show actual, net healing done. Historically, we've always tried to achieve this -- deducting overhealing from heal events and guesstimating/tracking shields and counting only absorbed amounts as healing are prime examples of this policy. For Spirit Link, specifically, we decided to classify its damage as negative healing, essentially subtracting it from its healing. This would leave us with the amount of HP that was actually added to the raid health pool, i.e. the net amount healed for. This solution is currently in place and seems to be working quite well.

During testing of the final Spirit Link handling change, we discovered that, while Spirit Link may generate positive net healing, it can also lead to negative net healing. An example we came across showed one player (a tank) getting a major Spirit Link-sourced heal with overhealing. Since overhealing is not counted toward healing done (as it does not increase raid health), the total "effective healing" is lower than the damage done, generating a negative total healing amount. Note that this is working exactly as intended, as raid health is actually decreased by this instance of Spirit Link use.[/h]Furthermore, the change has only been made to the aggregate views, i.e. the Analyze, Damage/Healing Done/Taken, Friendly Fire and Hostile Healing pages. Actor details pages are unaffected and will still show the raw damage/healing amounts for Spirit Link (though overheal is still deducted as usual). Keep this in mind when viewing Spirit Link effects.

It's nice that WoL kept up with this sort of thing. Does anyone know if Recount/Skada meters have updated to the same, or if they only take the flat increases to health as heals?

Divine Hymn is not a raid saving cooldown. All it could be considered is a mana saving cooldown because you are channeling and therefore regening some mana during it.

For the last time. A cooldown should never be the deciding factor in who gets to raid. It can be A factor, but ultimately, it comes down to skill. A bad druid cannot compare to a good priest, and vice versa, regardless of the capabilities of their class.

DH does not save you mana at all, unless you're trying to be snarky and implying that it does no healing and you're saving mana by not casting another heal. Excuse me for refusing to completely disregard a helpful spell. It's not the best it could be, but it's not worthless either.

If you have such a grudge about a spell, you should be turning your attention to other problems in your raid group.