do you want a redesign for ret?

[Vanderhuge]

Complete revamp? I wouldn't go that far, but a few QoL changes for PVE wouldn't be too bad. I'm sure they could make some changes that wouldn't make a massive dent in PVP, but the only ideas that come to mind look like this:

1) Improving Sanctity of Battle so that Haste has a greater effect on the CS cooldown, and making it a somewhat better stat. While Exemplar's latest findings may show Haste being decent, we still have no solid proof.
2) Allowing Exorcism to auto-crit on anything that isn't attached to a player, or at least extending the auto-crit effect to Elementals and other creature types.
3) While I suspect this will be a final tier bonus of sorts, allowing TV to grant some extension/refresh of Inquisition.

I'm going to completely throw RNG out the window, as I've seen how it can effect other specs (No crits during a burn phase as Arcane? Have fun with that. I don't even want to go on about Fire) and how performance can swing because of it. Plus, it doesn't matter whether you want a revamp or not, it's going to happen before the next expansion hits in some fashion. They need to do it in order to keep all of the specs feeling fresh and interesting.

[Imurbandaid]

I love it accept for the change to divine storm and them trying to make TV our signature move...I miss looking at spiraling golden blades spin around me...only get to see it for aoe, which is rarely.

[Matrlx]

Holy power idea is gr8 but the Mechanics of it is Bad
a Really Simple ideas would make it a lot better a little Tweaks actually would make many Rets happier * make Judment have a Good damage and Give 1 holy power * And Cs have 3 Sec cool Down , with these things u wont have a loss of Dps ur kinda have like 60 to 70 % sustained Dmg Until U can use ur Big Cds again

[RemyLaCroix]

I can't for the life of me get more then 12k dps out of my ret atm, I just have bad luck with proc's etc.

Edit:

I love it accept for the change to divine storm and them trying to make TV our signature move...I miss looking at spiraling golden blades spin around me...only get to see it for aoe, which is rarely.

I do miss that lovely Divine Storm yes.

[beingmused]

I really hate people like you that try so hard to convince people Ret was something it wasn't.

I'd recommend meds, therapy, yoga, or all three if you honestly "really hate" someone because they believe a class in a video game was easier during a period of time than you happen to.

1k is clearly an exaggeration, although if you assumed perfectly equal gear/latency/buffs then it wouldn't be *too* far off. But whether it is 1k, 3k, or 5k, the point remains that Rets were a running joke in WotLK for a good reason. If you honestly want to make the case that WotLK Retribution did not have fewer elements to it that required skill, then I'd love to hear it.

[Barrowwind]

Either you all suck or you have rocks in your head - Ret pally is awesome i have no issues with it at all.

[Requital]

I'd recommend meds, therapy, yoga, or all three if you honestly "really hate" someone because they believe a class in a video game was easier during a period of time than you happen to.

1k is clearly an exaggeration, although if you assumed perfectly equal gear/latency/buffs then it wouldn't be *too* far off. But whether it is 1k, 3k, or 5k, the point remains that Rets were a running joke in WotLK for a good reason. If you honestly want to make the case that WotLK Retribution did not have fewer elements to it that required skill, then I'd love to hear it.

You should consider learning how to read, maybe some hooked on phonics to help you understand. He is trying to convince people that Ret is something it most certainly isn't. He used numbers that aren't even relatively close to how Ret performed and yes I do hate people that are so ignorant they try disparately to convince everyone else they are right about something they know nothing about.

Ret is just as much of a joke in cata than it was in wotlk it requires no more effort the fact people think it does is laughable at best.

[Badpaladin]

Ret in Wrath felt more special. We brought buffs that were paladin-specific, and it felt like we had a real role in raids other than just another DPS spec. Speaking of DPS, competition between good players in Wrath was more focused on cooldowns and timing. There were large DPS discrepancies from top 10 to top 50, and from top 50 to the rest it was even more staggeringly large. Certainly more so than it is now. Was it the case that all the same players were worse in Wrath, or is it easier to achieve that competitive echelon of DPS when playing to your full potential?

I'm thinking it's the latter, which is kind of a shame for top players. It's gotten better, though. Holyshitfuckdouchestorm, from 4.0 to 4.1 it was hellacious. RNG was ridiculously out of control.

[wylatron]

I mostly like it now. Played from early tbc as ret, left ret in wotlk, finally back to it in cata. TV needs a new sound and to feel like it actually hits something, I think it just does not feel solid like it should for the grunting dmg it does.
I still feel the cd's up=god, cds down = slob problem is there, but I have had some favorable experiences in pvp and pve with ret as of now.
A self cast hand of salv on cd's makes it all so smooth for pve, and pvp, as long as I play very aggressively feels good and doable.
Of course the old snare thing is an issue, but then I have found hammer and repent to be doing the job somewhat, and the clunky crusader strike issue will eventually smooth out when there is enough haste on gear to not reforge out of it totally one day.....guess we'll just sit on it for now? haha? /sadface

As for the usage of hopo, inq, tv, and wog are ok, I could see it being used to boost how or judgements dmg one day....how very rogue-ish, but whateve's

[juzalol]

1. Give Paladins Dual wield.

2. Make it possible to use Seals on shield.

3. Give Paladins 3 types of Seals
- Offensive(damage / heal)
- Defensive(tank / turtle)
- Utility(Debuffs / Dispels etc.)
(2 active at one time, pref. Offensive or Utility on Main hand, Defensive or Utility on Offhand)

4. Give them Main hand judgement and Offhand judgement.

5. Make seals back to 30seconds and fading on judgement, rotating different offensive
seals would be the core damage / healing mechanic for paladins.

I really don't like the current paladin mechanics at all. Holy power is just
annoying.

I think the 30 second seals had potential even tho they were kinda clunky
in TBC.

[wylatron]

1. Give Paladins Dual wield.

2. Make it possible to use Seals on shield.

3. Give Paladins 3 types of Seals
- Offensive(damage / heal)
- Defensive(tank / turtle)
- Utility(Debuffs / Dispels etc.)
(2 active at one time, pref. Offensive or Utility on Main hand, Defensive or Utility on Offhand)

4. Give them Main hand judgement and Offhand judgement.

5. Make seals back to 30seconds and fading on judgement, rotating different offensive
seals would be the core damage / healing mechanic for paladins.

I really don't like the current paladin mechanics at all. Holy power is just
annoying.

I think the 30 second seals had potential even tho they were kinda clunky
in TBC.

HOLY MICRO MANAGEMENT BATMAN!
Just sayin is all, not sure I want to go back to that playstyle haha

[Bluepants]

I think id like Holy Power more if it worked less like combo points and more like runic power, but that's just me.

[Turanduban]

As you could see from top 100 parses on world of logs, paladin is the worst dps class atm overall in Firelands hc.

[Oerba Yun Fang]

I'd just like it to be a little a lot less RNG-dependent.

[cquirki]

People who like facerolling will always hate new ret. The actual good ret paladins love it because its smart and fun. Now see if you can pick out the bad pallies in this post

You. It's a GCD locked class basically with a FEW procs and cds. The skill cap is extremely low in ret sir.

[RincrowTheOmnipotent]

I like ret. Problem is that its at the mercy of the RNG gods. No spec should be handicap because the RNG Pantheon isn't pleased. I don't want to have to sacrifice my firstborn son or my best animal just so I can get push some buttons besides Crusader Strike or Divine Storm. Everyone hates them and apparently they hate us more.

[Baracuda]

You should consider learning how to read, maybe some hooked on phonics to help you understand. He is trying to convince people that Ret is something it most certainly isn't. He used numbers that aren't even relatively close to how Ret performed and yes I do hate people that are so ignorant they try disparately to convince everyone else they are right about something they know nothing about.

Ret is just as much of a joke in cata than it was in wotlk it requires no more effort the fact people think it does is laughable at best.

If you think it required effort in LK you're nostalgic.

[4KhazModan]

Smart and fun? Quit sniffing glue there is nothing smart and fun about it.

This. It feels wonky and slow. I was ret os in wrath, but changed to holy when cata hit. My RL forced me to switch back to ret OS, and I don't hate it as much as I did at the beginning of cata, but it just feels weird to me.

[Elbren]

So here is the thing, I have been playing a human pally since vanilla, ret has always been my spec of choice, and at the end of Wotlk I wanted to shelf him. The class had no difficulty in play...I mean...did DS auto reset? Could you hit face to keyboard at least once a GCD and not stand in fire? If so you could play a pally well and therefore everyone who wanted to experience end game content played the easiest class they could get a hold of. When they redesigned the class 80% of the bad rets became bad prot pallys and realized tanking requires thought...and then gave up on the class. The class took work to figure out a rotation, many hours of getting data for spreadsheets, experimenting and just pain. Cata drops and figures out the mastery sucked and then changed it (which was not totally a loss due to the higher focus of ranged dps during BoT/BWD). Now the class is awesome, it has difficulty in play, active thought is now required while playing to effectively use the two resource system, while still maintaining the support class that the pally is. In pvp rets are outstanding, unrootable, rediculous burst, great healing...I mean what more could you ask for...O wait we do wear plate and have bubble...yep nothing more could be wanted. In my opinion ret is at a high point in its career I have never had so much fun as a ret pally as I am now. For those who were too lazy to learn how to play a complicated class, roll an arcane mage I think that is pretty manageable right now...I mean other mages will laugh at you for going oom but your dps will be good until then

Wait ... what?

Guessing you don't do Arena ... random BG's where you can pick off players that are undergeared, in PvE gear or don't know what they're doing doesn't count.

As for Ret being at it's "high point", You might wanna ask why some of the top progression guilds all but refuse to bring a Ret paladin on progression. Hell, they won't even bring an elemental / enhance shaman and both of those specs do better dps than Ret. Back to your PvP comment, you may also want to ask why none of the top arena teams carry a ret pally.

[Deleted]

Standing around auto attacking because you aren't getting procs is not fun.

RNG is the real ret problem. We're great for 20 seconds every 2 minutes, rest of it is just... waiting.

With the retarded Cata nerf to ret healing abilities we can't even help the rest of the raid.