Titanforging Poll.

[Einsz]

Some of the world's best M+ players don't raid mythic:
https://raider.io/characters/eu/eredar/Fistbrah
https://raider.io/characters/eu/twisting-nether/Zmok

They don't need to just look at their titanforged gear.

[Thrif]

well i got a 985 trinket, from LFR on my shitty alt.

I had no idea items could proc that high before that, so it must be extremely rare.

That'd be way higher than anything I've heard of before, could you give armory link to it?

[Jerot]

It's already enough RNG to get the piece you want to drop. It just feels bad having an extra layer ontop of that. If they want a system that keeps rewards in lower tier content they can try something like item upgrades. Sacrifice a duplicate piece to upgrade the item level up to a cap. Or leave it at artfifact/azurite, which is still a step above the original system of zero rewards period.

Double RNG gating, triple for world boss spawns, ontop of time gating is just awful. It used to be that you could build a shopping list, run content to target gear, and actually make progress. The WF/TF system turns it into an impossible grind to get gear way above content your actually running.

It leads to a bad environment where a new piece of content gets added, and people immediately want you to have equal itemlevel to the rewards to participate, making the only valuable rewards WF/TF.

[Woobels]

Titanforging is basically gacha shit sneakily snuck into WoW, much like other things such as legendaries (thankfully going away) and Aman'thuls.

Just a carrot on a stick to keep you paying money while not adding anything positive to how the rest of the game is designed.

[vigostavrian]

hmmm nice vote

[Deleted]

Where is the option: "I prefer not having WF and TF in the game at all"?

I might be okay with the system if there was a very, very, very strict cap on it. To me, getting an item barely ever felt good this expansion, because almost always after getting something I actually needed I thought to myself: "Too bad it wasn't x ilvls higher". Also, one of my alts is ilvl 943, while never having done anything besides Argus zones and LFR (which drop ilvl 910 and 915 gear). I don't feel like I deserve to have an average ilvl on that character that is 30 higher than the highest content I did on it. It's just silly and causes the unnecessary ilvl inflation which is the whole reason we have stat squishes every other expansion now.

[munkeyinorbit]

Ion is wrong. Titanforging makes the game a lot worse...

Here we go. Another armchair developer giving their experience as cannon. Don't tell me, you have been playing since beta and you know exactly what the game needs. Nitros14 is wrong. Ion is right. That is how it is. Blizzard may change their philosophy in the future, they are entitled to do that, but people like you are the reason this community is so toxic. You think you are speaking truths when in fact you just want the game to revolve around your wants. That is pretty shitty developing there buddy.

[kary]

They don't need to just look at their titanforged gear.

The monk had 2 good titanforges. You know +15 rewards you with 960 +15 titanforged base, right?

As for the paladin, he had a+35 titanforge as his highest. It's really not that impressive when you look at it like that.


Oh, also thinking that gear is why they are good, not that they could just be skilled players, heh.

[Relapses]

Personally, I felt the WF'd system from WoD was fine. I understand they wanted to make "old content" seem appealing with this new system but to me it almost seems like it's had the opposite effect in that it creates a compulsion for some players to clear the content on the hope they'll get a certain WF'd item. Blizzard will of course say that these are isolated cases and generally they feel the current system is successful but they're basing their overall consensus on feedback from players who will never post here (ie, the unwashed masses).

[Jerot]

Here we go. Another armchair developer giving their experience as cannon. Don't tell me, you have been playing since beta and you know exactly what the game needs. Nitros14 is wrong. Ion is right. That is how it is. Blizzard may change their philosophy in the future, they are entitled to do that, but people like you are the reason this community is so toxic. You think you are speaking truths when in fact you just want the game to revolve around your wants. That is pretty shitty developing there buddy.

Its good for the game because it slows down gear acquisition. Getting the drop isn't the end of the grind anymore, so you'll keep chasing the dragon. It adds an exciting moment occasionally that will give you a rush, even in content well below what you should be running.

Its bad for the game because it artificially extends the gear treadmill. Your BiS dream drop is no longer just some 10-15% off a mythic boss. Now there are situations where you want to grind lower content for the extremely low chance to hit a lotto drop on a piece that outscales higher base rewards. There are items you will very likely never see which ultimately frustrates a lot of players. (Example, I got my TF arcanocrystal in 2 kills, a lot haven't through the entire expansion.)

It makes balancing content much harder. You can say they are meant to be random additional rewards for playing that aren't meant to be targetted. But any source of power in the players eyes is mandatory. Just look at some of the unhealthy habits that arose thanks to artifact power. As a result people have inflated gear score for the content they are running. You enter a new tier very close to the level of rewards that are available from it, making TF/WF the only source of upgrades. Throwing away 90% of gear feels like garbage, as does getting that drop you want, but its not +15 so its vendor trash.

There are people that don't grind for TF loot, and it creates a much larger gap between people who are on the same tier of content. They could both be wearing full sets from raid X and be over 10il+ apart. So you either force people to do it by balancing around titanforging, or you let the people that grind or get lucky, get ahead of the curve and outgear encounters.

Theres no clear path to upgrades anymore, its a spreadsheet of potential drops and percentages you have to calculate per slot. One where you are at the mercy of layered RNG and time gating.

It devalues any rewards you can earn, if someone doing content that is much easier can get something better randomly.

What are your justifications to say ion is right, or do you juat want the game to revolve around your wants too?

[Nitros14]

Here we go. Another armchair developer giving their experience as cannon. Don't tell me, you have been playing since beta and you know exactly what the game needs. Nitros14 is wrong. Ion is right. That is how it is. Blizzard may change their philosophy in the future, they are entitled to do that, but people like you are the reason this community is so toxic. You think you are speaking truths when in fact you just want the game to revolve around your wants. That is pretty shitty developing there buddy.

You haven't addressed any of my points and you've just made personal attacks.

[Einsz]

The monk had 2 good titanforges. You know +15 rewards you with 960 +15 titanforged base, right?

As for the paladin, he had a+35 titanforge as his highest. It's really not that impressive when you look at it like that.


Oh, also thinking that gear is why they are good, not that they could just be skilled players, heh.

Its not about how high his titanforges are but thanks to that system he has access to mythic level gear. I never said they are good because of the gear, but without titanforged system they wouldn't be able to compete at all

[khazlol]

That'd be way higher than anything I've heard of before, could you give armory link to it?

sorry for late reply :P https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...n-ring/snappit

Raid Finder Titanforged 985 Terminus signaling beacon

[Atreyes]

There's no "remove the worst thing they've done to the game ever" option.

This so much. Titanforging is in my eyes one of the biggest mistakes ever, makes gear progression feel bad. Nothing worse than killing a boss, getting an item that should be an upgrade but it isn't because the one you have from the same boss on a lower difficulty is titanforged. Just adds another level of RNG and with it frustration to the gearing process, makes balancing raid encounters harder but other than keeping people farming content they really shouldn't have to it has no positives.

[Yunaqt]

Don't overly care if it doesn't have a cap or if it does.
Didn't bother going and farming prior raids at a slim chance to win the lottery even during ToS where T19 was far superior to T20 being a Resto Druid.

Just approach it with a time v reward approach, wasn't worth the time investment for such a small chance at a gain.
So I just kept playing the game and enjoying when I did happen to pick up a decent forge.

[McFuu]

Ion is wrong. Titanforging makes the game a lot worse.

It makes raids much harder to tune so we get things like dramatically overtuned Tomb of Sargeras and dramatically undertuned Emerald Nightmare and Antorus (except for Argus).

It also means you tend to get fewer and less meaningful upgrades from killing mythic bosses and kill times don't decrease as much as they have in previous expansions leading to burnout.

It also means you have to stupidly try to farm old trinkets that are broken for titanforges. The absolute anti-fun.

I don't know what people are talking about with titanforges being rare, I'm wearing six titanforges and had tons of them from the previous tier long into this one and I've seen people with lots more than me.

Out of all the negatives to Titan Forging, this is the absolute worst part. Having BiS trinkets from a dungeon or EN Raid in the final tier of raiding is absolutely annoying. Having to actually quest Argus for the stupid shards so I can roll trinkets constantly in the hope it TFs to a number above 920 or 930 on a Trinket that was originally 860....

I don't think TF should leave the item Tier it's in. If a Trink happens to compete for BiS as a TF 890 vs 945+ trinks I see on drops, that's fine. That doesn't bother me. But when they remove these trinks and items and allow them to be viable because of a scaled up item level at end game, that's ridiculous to me. Now I can't get these items except for the hopeful lottery of picking them up through a vendor.

[Count Zero]

I think the Legion system but with a look at adjusting the rates would be good. I do think it's a case where a few outliers make the high forges seem more common than they are, but it wouldn't hurt to just look at the numbers to see if they could be adjusted in some way. I wouldn't be mad at a moderate reduction in overall frequency.

[FuxieDK]

Curious on what people ACTUALLY think, as my previous "titanforging gone out of hand" thread recieved alot of non-specific answers and questions.

Ion previously said "A hard cap on Titanforging that kept it from going into the Mythic item level space would be very restrictive."

What do people actually think about his opinion?


The Poll is up

Explaination:

#1: No Cap = Gear can cap to w/e the highest possible itemlvl cap is CURRENTLY. (Pr. Expansion only) = All legion gear can cap to 985.
#2: Capping to tier max = ie. Normal, Heroic and mythic EN cannot go past 895 (as it was that tiers max ilvl).
#3. Cap to tier difficulty = Items from Heroic cannot titanforge into mythic itemlvl ranges, aswell as lfr -> normal and normal -> heroic.
#4. Cap titanforging at +12 = pretty straightforward.
#5 Cap to +15 = Pretty straightforward.


Poll Updates:

So as it currently stands; 24.18% of voters didnt want any cap on Titanforging.
75.82% Wanted 'some kind of' cap on titanforging.

The majority of the 75.82% wanted a +15 Cap / Difficulties cant titanforge into next difficulties (N->hc->mythic).

As it stands currently the itemlvl gap between difficulties is 15 itemlvls.
Back in MoP the itemlvl gap between difficulties was 13 itemlvls, with "titanforging" being 12 itemlvls(if i remember correctly), giving a buffer of 1 itemlvl.

Where is the "Remove War-/Titanforge" option?

It's a horrible feature, and should be removed..

[Thrif]

sorry for late reply :P https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...n-ring/snappit

Raid Finder Titanforged 985 Terminus signaling beacon

Oh wow, that's pretty ridiculous. Honestly a random +70 roll like that might change who gets a world first or something. I know I voted for "no caps" for TF but I'm reconsidering it now...

[Deleted]

I'd like to see one of these 985 world quest titanforging people have been claiming procced.