Instead of "Dracthyr", we should just get player-sized Dragons

[Arikara]

Sorry, I didn't think I would need to cite the first page of the thread to people already in the thread. You can see at least two separate posters stating as much as if the actual reason such a thing would not be implemented is the impracticality of fitting dragons where bipedal playable characters are meant to be.

This thread has effectively been hijacked by Teriz to have a useless argument about his fanfic interpretations which he will defend like it's a warzone.

Quite sad, really, as it could otherwise have been a decent thread. Cheers to you for at least having something relevant to add earlier.

[Ielenia]

Except Drakonoids/Drakonids are mortals who were mutated into draconic monsters. They wouldn’t (lorewise) be able to emulate the powers of major dragon characters.

Neither can we. Especially considering the evoker's fire doesn't heal like the red dragonflight's fire heals.

That aside, why not? Even assuming they are lore-wise unable to wield draconic magic, why couldn't the dragonflights empower the drakonids?

How don’t they? They have abilities from Onyxia, Chromie, and Alexstraza, and we’ll obviously get more.

False. We have have not seen the evoker's abilities save for three/four abilities that haven't been named. To say that "we have abilities from Onyxia, Chromia and Alexstrasza" at this point is a blatant lie at the best of times.

- - - Updated - - -

Sorry, I didn't think I would need to cite the first page of the thread to people already in the thread.

You were on page thirteen and were complaining about something posted in the first page, a week ago, as if it was a current topic being discussed?

[Teriz]

You do realize that high elves are descendants from Night Elven Highborne right? You literally destroy your own argument that Dracthyr are dragons if you try and claim High Elves aren't night elves. You didn't even know he was half elf lol. You thought he was a human. It also doesn't say what elf is the other half.
"
The blue surprised the bronze by revealing that his visage was that of a humble half-elf. Kalecgos explained that while many blues chose elaborate forms, he instead wanted to be approachable and walk among mortals as a friend and equal. When Chronormu asked about his visage's blue hair, he replied "It suits me". " His very own quote says it wasn't because he wanted to show off his dragon aspect.

"They need to be elaborate and formal because that is what we expect of them. Yes? While many of my flight follow the example of the Aspects, I seek to walk beside the mortals as an equal. I chose a visage that is half-human and half-elf: a blend of mortal worlds, as I try to be a blend of our world and theirs. I didn't want my appearance to remind them of a dragon. I wanted them to see me as a friend, a peer, someone they can trust. I would say that was the heart of my choice and my identity, Chronormu: I chose to be approachable."
He didn't want to remind people of a dragon.

Maybe try and do some research before responding to stuff it would make you look less like an idiot.

That quote has literally nothing to do with the fact that Kalecgos' blue hair is an indicator that he is a dragon.

You know Void Elves are blood & High Elves right? And they have blue hair. And again Humans have blue hair as an option. You are just trying to win by saying its a slightly different shade.

Again, show me a Void, Blood, or High elf that have the same blue hair as Kalecgos. It's a pretty simple ask.

You haven't provided any evidence. You thought Kalecgos was a human lol. It took me 5 posts and 6 links to show how ignorant you were because you refuse to accept any reality that isn't part of your fanfiction. It's honestly quiet sad.

Yeah, Kalecgos' hair and Wrathion's burning eyes are my evidence. Your responses are nothing more than constant goal shifting.

Yeah they gifs don't have the smoothness of the videos. Rewatch the videos. It's clear they aren't burning.

Yeah, there's no human in WoW walking around with eyes like this;



Thus indicating that Wrathion is not human.

Undead humans have red burning eyes

Wrathion isn't undead, and the glow of undead eyes (like Sylvanas) is clearly different than what we're seeing from Wrathion;

Humans have a red eye option (without glow)

Which means they're not the same.....

So again I ask you if dragons don't have the eyes how are people going to know he is a dragon from the eyes? Why wouldn't he manifest horns instead? Or scales? Or wings?

Because he chose not to have scales, horns, or wings in visage form. He chose to have burning red eyes. Just like Kalecgos chose to have bright blue hair that no actual half elf could replicate.

These are shockingly simple facts that you seem unable to understand.

[threads]

i think everyone agrees that the walking lizards look hilariously bad. this class will be memed on harder than vulperas.

[Teriz]

This thread has effectively been hijacked by Teriz to have a useless argument about his fanfic interpretations which he will defend like it's a warzone.

My argument: Blizzard says that Dracthyr are dragons.

Blizzard:

Jeremy Feasel: “In this particular case, we really wanted to do ‘You can play as a Dragon’. So what is the player version of that? (Where you can play in raids without obstructing everyone’s view with a giant Dragon Form like Alexstrasza)”

https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/t...-abo-134133610

Where's the fanfiction interpretation?

[Dequanacus]

You were on page thirteen and were complaining about something posted in the first page, a week ago, as if it was a current topic being discussed?

I used the first page as an example since it is the one most likely to have been read by people posting in this thread? Don't blame me for your reading comprehension skills.

[qwerty123456]

That quote has literally nothing to do with the fact that Kalecgos' blue hair is an indicator that he is a dragon.



Again, show me a Void, Blood, or High elf that have the same blue hair as Kalecgos. It's a pretty simple ask.



Yeah, Kalecgos' hair and Wrathion's burning eyes are my evidence. Your responses are nothing more than constant goal shifting.



Yeah, there's no human in WoW walking around with eyes like this;



Thus indicating that Wrathion is not human.



Wrathion isn't undead, and the glow of undead eyes (like Sylvanas) is clearly different than what we're seeing from Wrathion;





Which means they're not the same.....




Because he chose not to have scales, horns, or wings in visage form. He chose to have burning red eyes. Just like Kalecgos chose to have bright blue hair that no actual half elf could replicate.

These are shockingly simple facts that you seem unable to understand.

The quote says he didn't want people to think he was a dragon. It also says he picked his form to be seen as an equal. If they have different hair then its not equal is it? If he directly states he didn't want to be seen as a dragon and you claim blue hair is a dragon trait then clearly it contradicts his intent.

I also like how I showed humans with blue hair, and night elves with blue hair and you still deny. Its nice to see that you admit dracthyr aren't dragons though since you say Highborne aren't Night Elves even though they were just the upper class night elves.

Since he never stated what type of elf the other half was I made an image with all the different elves and a human all with blue hair. They also have more blue tints you can see in game cause I'm not making another image for a troll.



You do realize those gifs are lower quality. Watch they videos they clearly aren't the burning you claim to be. It's sad that the only way you can "prove' your point is to use low quality gifs and ignore the actual game and cinematics.

I also like how you suddenly changed from him just trying to show himself as something more than human from your stance that he was trying to show people he was a dragon. Nice to admit you were wrong.

[Teriz]

The quote says he didn't want people to think he was a dragon. It also says he picked his form to be seen as an equal. If they have different hair then its not equal is it? If he directly states he didn't want to be seen as a dragon and you claim blue hair is a dragon trait then clearly it contradicts his intent.

How does having different hair color make someone higher or lower than someone else?

I also like how I showed humans with blue hair, and night elves with blue hair and you still deny.

Because Kalecgos' hair isn't blue-black, it's bright blue. Also Kalecgos' visage form is that of a half-elf, not a Night Elf.

Its nice to see that you admit dracthyr aren't dragons though since you say Highborne aren't Night Elves even though they were just the upper class night elves.

I said that High Elves aren't Night Elves. You know, the alliance version of Blood Elves.

Since he never stated what type of elf the other half was I made an image with all the different elves and a human all with blue hair. They also have more blue tints you can see in game cause I'm not making another image for a troll.

.......

It's High Elf/Human. Just like Alleria and Turalyon's son.

Again, this isn't difficult.

You do realize those gifs are lower quality. Watch they videos they clearly aren't the burning you claim to be. It's sad that the only way you can "prove' your point is to use low quality gifs and ignore the actual game and cinematics.

At this point you're simply lying, so I'll just invite anyone to view the cinematics for themselves where they can clearly see Wrathion's eyes burning throughout.

I also like how you suddenly changed from him just trying to show himself as something more than human from your stance that he was trying to show people he was a dragon. Nice to admit you were wrong.

When I say that Wrathion's burning eyes indicate he isn't human, what do you think I'm indicating that he is instead?

[qwerty123456]

How does having different hair color make someone higher or lower than someone else?



Because Kalecgos' hair isn't blue-black, it's bright blue. Also Kalecgos' visage form is that of a half-elf, not a Night Elf.



I said that High Elves aren't Night Elves. You know, the alliance version of Blood Elves.



.......

It's High Elf/Human. Just like Alleria and Turalyon's son.

Again, this isn't difficult.



At this point you're simply lying, so I'll just invite anyone to view the cinematics for themselves where they can clearly see Wrathion's eyes burning throughout.



When I say that Wrathion's burning eyes indicate he isn't human, what do you think I'm indicating that he is instead?

He was trying to blend in and look mortal. Night Elf is an elf. High Elves are former Highborne and their descendants.

You have proof he is High elf/human? Where does it state that? Also I already showed you in the above screenshot they do have the hair color.

I'm Lying? LOL the video thumbnail clearly shows them not burning lol. Ok I'm done with you. You are either mentally ill, Completely dishonest, or just trolling at this point. I already wasted way too much time showing you proof in game.

[Ielenia]

I used the first page as an example since it is the one most likely to have been read by people posting in this thread? Don't blame me for your reading comprehension skills.

New readers very rarely get sent to the first page of a thread they see on the "Recent Forum Posts" blurb at the top of MMO-Champion's page. They'd have to actively look for the thread in the forum section and then click on the 'first page' link. And none of that changes how you were talking about as if that was one of the main topics being discussed.

Don't blame me for your lack of communication skills.

- - - Updated - - -

My argument: Blizzard says that Dracthyr are dragons.

And your argument has been debunked as it has been explained to you several times over, by quite a few posters, that this is PR speech.

Where's the fanfiction interpretation?

When you completely ignore that they're hybrids and what hybridization means, meaning they cannot be dragons like Alexstrasza, Wrathion and Kalecgos. When you completely ignore the official Blizzard deep-dive video where they explain exactly that.

When you take PR speech at face value while discarding the deep-dive video.

[Teriz]

You have proof he is High elf/human? Where does it state that? Also I already showed you in the above screenshot they do have the hair color.

Kalec - The blue dragon Kalecgos's humanoid form is a half-human, half-elf, using a unique model with custom blue hair, face, and clothes.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Half-elf

Gee, I wonder why his model has custom blue hair…..

I'm Lying? LOL the video thumbnail clearly shows them not burning lol. Ok I'm done with you. You are either mentally ill, Completely dishonest, or just trolling at this point. I already wasted way too much time showing you proof in game.

Yeah, once again, anyone can view those videos and see Wrathion’s eyes burn just like they do in the gifs. The idea that the speed of the gifs are causing some effect not shown in the videos is absurd.

[Glormon]

You have proof he is High elf/human? Where does it state that? Also I already showed you in the above screenshot they do have the hair color.

So I don't have much stake in whatever argument is going on but I went ahead n browsed around through multiple sources (wiki's, in-game stuff, the chronicle books, that one manga kalecgos was in) and pretty much anything that refers to a half-elf exclusively references the elven part always referring back to a High Elf in some capacity. (whether thats one parent being a high elf + human, high elf + half-elf, or two half elves in some examples)

I can't find a single reference to there being any Night elf hybrids, nightborne, void elf ect ect. Something that I'd chalk up to them being fairly new* (night elves only "recently" coming into contacts with humans, same with every other flavor of elf ect. ect.)

Which is why everyone safely assumes when kalec is referenced as looking like a "half-elf" that it assumes a form of parentage of high elven in the bloodline.

edit: tracking down which novel this quote from but he states "There are any number of reasons for selecting a particular form. The Aspects command the respect of our flights, and of mortals as well, so their guises serve a necessary function. They need to be elaborate and formal because that is what we expect of them. Yes? While many of my flight follow the example of the Aspects, I seek to walk beside the mortals as an equal. I chose a visage that is half-human and half-elf: a blend of mortal worlds, as I try to be a blend of our world and theirs. I didn't want my appearance to remind them of a dragon. I wanted them to see me as a friend, a peer, someone they can trust. I would say that was the heart of my choice and my identity, Chronormu: I chose to be approachable."

[Syegfryed]

Except Drakonoids/Drakonids are mortals who were mutated into draconic monsters. They wouldn’t (lorewise) be able to emulate the powers of major dragon characters. Dracthyr are more in line with Chromatic dragons: artificial dragons created by the black Dragonflight to possess the powers of various dragonflights.

Lmao, dracthyr are literally beings combined with MORTALS, they are as much dragons as drakonid, you like that or not.

They having the powers is a matter of blizzard wanting that.

How don’t they? They have abilities from Onyxia, Chromie, and Alexstraza, and we’ll obviously get more.

Call me when we get to be a gnome in the visage form

or are you going to be very selective about their "powers", implying a normal class could not do the abilities

[qwerty123456]

So I don't have much stake in whatever argument is going on but I went ahead n browsed around through multiple sources (wiki's, in-game stuff, the chronicle books, that one manga kalecgos was in) and pretty much anything that refers to a half-elf exclusively references the elven part always referring back to a High Elf in some capacity. (whether thats one parent being a high elf + human, high elf + half-elf, or two half elves in some examples)

I can't find a single reference to there being any Night elf hybrids, nightborne, void elf ect ect. Something that I'd chalk up to them being fairly new* (night elves only "recently" coming into contacts with humans, same with every other flavor of elf ect. ect.)

Which is why everyone safely assumes when kalec is referenced as looking like a "half-elf" that it assumes a form of parentage of high elven in the bloodline.

edit: tracking down which novel this quote from but he states "There are any number of reasons for selecting a particular form. The Aspects command the respect of our flights, and of mortals as well, so their guises serve a necessary function. They need to be elaborate and formal because that is what we expect of them. Yes? While many of my flight follow the example of the Aspects, I seek to walk beside the mortals as an equal. I chose a visage that is half-human and half-elf: a blend of mortal worlds, as I try to be a blend of our world and theirs. I didn't want my appearance to remind them of a dragon. I wanted them to see me as a friend, a peer, someone they can trust. I would say that was the heart of my choice and my identity, Chronormu: I chose to be approachable."

Yes most half elves are high elven which are the descendants of the Night Elf upperclass. The term can apply to anyone with any elven heritage though. The whole argument was that He picked blue hair to show his dragon form which from the quote I linked and the one you did he states he did not want to remind people of a dragon and I showed Teriz that you can make blue hair with every elf and human race. He then tried saying wasn't the exact shade of blue I now just explained to him how the hair is in fact custom cause you can't make the hairstyle.

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Half-elf

Gee, I wonder why his model has custom blue hair…..



Yeah, once again, anyone can view those videos and see Wrathion’s eyes burn just like they do in the gifs. The idea that the speed of the gifs are causing some effect not shown in the videos is absurd.

Holy shit dude you are dumb. Do you even read any of the shit you link? It's getting really embarassing at this point I kinda feel sorry for you.

From your own link:
Half-elf is a term used to describe the half-breed offspring of an elven or half-elven parent and a parent of any other species (such as a human). Most half-elves are the hybrid offspring of both a human and a high elf. Half-breeds are rare in the Warcraft universe. It doesn't say that a half elf has to be high elf.

And as for the hair. Do you know why its custom. Cause you can't make that hairstyle you moron. Jesus dude how bad do you need a win. It's just pathetic how bad you are trying to move the goalposts and then keep failing em.

Are you just trying to throw shit and hope something sticks?

yeah literal screencap thumbnail image shows non burning eyes and watching the video shows none but I guess your right lol.

[Arikara]

My argument: Blizzard says that Dracthyr are dragons.

Your argument is completely meaningless and leads nowhere. You are wasting your time, and that of everyone else present here.

The lore exists to serve the gameplay and viceversa. Blizzard are incompetent at managing both, and as a result there is no rhyme or reason to be found in it—nor would it matter if there was.

Harking page up and page down about some eye color that an artist chose with little thought given to it is utterly without any point. You are hijacking this thread purely to satisfy your own substantial ego.

If Blizzard wanted to do something different, they'd just do it without caring whether or not there is any precedent.

[Teriz]

Lmao, dracthyr are literally beings combined with MORTALS, they are as much dragons as drakonid, you like that or not.

Your opinion. Blizzard plainly states otherwise.

They having the powers is a matter of blizzard wanting that.

Yes, Blizzard would want dragons to have the power of dragons.

Call me when we get to be a gnome in the visage form

Being a gnome isn’t the power of Chromie and the bronze Dragonflight. It’s the power of time, which the dracthyr possess as well.

or are you going to be very selective about their "powers", implying a normal class could not do the abilities

Blizzard stated that no existing race or class could accomplish what they set out to do with the dracthyr evoker. Hence why they created.

[VinceVega]

Why are people piling on Teriz for?
Drakthyr are dragons. No matter what people argue.
If blizz says this chair with scales is a dragon... it is a dragon.

[Teriz]

Holy shit dude you are dumb. Do you even read any of the shit you link? It's getting really embarassing at this point I kinda feel sorry for you.

From your own link:
Half-elf is a term used to describe the half-breed offspring of an elven or half-elven parent and a parent of any other species (such as a human). Most half-elves are the hybrid offspring of both a human and a high elf. Half-breeds are rare in the Warcraft universe. It doesn't say that a half elf has to be high elf.

I never said a half elf has to be a high elf, however those are the only half elves we’ve seen, and those are the variety that Kalec clearly imitated, because NE/Humans have never been shown in WoW.

And as for the hair. Do you know why its custom. Cause you can't make that hairstyle you moron. Jesus dude how bad do you need a win. It's just pathetic how bad you are trying to move the goalposts and then keep failing em.

It says custom hair COLOR, not hair STYLE. His model’s hairstyle is available on human males.

yeah literal screencap thumbnail image shows non burning eyes and watching the video shows none but I guess your right lol.

Instead of looking at the screen cap, I recommend watching the video.

Anyway, once a poster resorts to name-calling, they’ve lost the argument, which is clearly the case here.

[Ielenia]

Your opinion. Blizzard plainly states otherwise.

No, it's a fact. And Blizzard has stated so in the deep-dive video.

Yes, Blizzard would want dragons to have the power of dragons.

And drakonids and dragonmen are as much "dragon" as dracthyr.

Being a gnome isn’t the power of Chromie and the bronze Dragonflight. It’s the power of time, which the dracthyr possess as well.

But, as pointed out, you don't have Alexstrasza's powers, since hers is the power of healing flames, where you have no healing flames in the evoker class.

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Drakthyr are dragons. No matter what people argue.

Blizzard stated, unambiguously, that dracthyr are not dragons like Alexstrasza, Kalecgos and other aspects, when they declared the race to be hybrids.

They are dragons as much as drakonids and dragonmen are dragons.

[Teriz]

No, it's a fact. And Blizzard has stated so in the deep-dive video.

Blizzard stated they were hybrids. Blizzard has never stated that hybrids cannot be dragons.

Again, if you disagree, please provide the quote where Blizzard states otherwise.

And drakonids and dragonmen are as much "dragon" as dracthyr.

And please post a quote from Blizzard where they stated this.

Again, here is Blizzard themselves stating that Dracthyr are dragons;

Dragonflight introduces a new race and class in one known as the dracthyr Evoker, allowing players to play as a dragon (one that can still fit in a raid without crushing your allies.)

https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/worl...ight-deep-dive

Ion: "Dracthyr fulfills the fantasy of literally playing a dragon".

https://youtu.be/yw0rPbFshrY?t=299

Berger: Early on, we knew we wanted to make a playable dragon. We started with the pillar of making you feel like a dragon–not just looking like one, but feeling like one. Everything came out of that. If we want you to feel like a dragon, we want you to fight in certain ways. What does that mean? We want you to breathe fire, we want you to fly across the battlefield. Being able to embrace the uniqueness by adding the class restriction actually lets us do a lot of things otherwise we wouldn’t have been able to do.

https://gamerant.com/world-of-warcra...etting-future/

Cory Taylor: The Dracthyr have wings because they are dragons obviously

Jackie: We want to be clear that Dracthyr are Evokers, and Evokers are Dracthyr. They’re one and the same. It’s definitely a race/class combo. Dracthyr aren’t like warriors. They are Evokers. The Evoker class abilities are such so tied to being a dragon — wings and tails and claws and dragonflight magic — that the two are just like interconnected at the core.

https://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blo...-and-tina-wang

Ion Hazzikostas:The dragon form certainly isn't like a metamorphosis for demon hunters. It is the innate form that the Evoker takes, and all their abilities will be usable in it. But we're looking to find ways to work humanoid form into combat. But ultimately, we want to let players do what they prefer aesthetically, rather than forcing gameplay based on mechanics.

https://www.buffed.de/World-of-Warcr...hen-1393543/3/

Jeremy Feasel: “In this particular case, we really wanted to do ‘You can play as a Dragon’. So what is the player version of that? (Where you can play in raids without obstructing everyone’s view with a giant Dragon Form like Alexstrasza)”

https://www.podchaser.com/podcasts/t...-abo-134133610

Still waiting for you to provide anything beyond your opinion....

But, as pointed out, you don't have Alexstrasza's powers, since hers is the power of healing flames, where you have no healing flames in the evoker class.

How would you know this? All of the Evoker's abilities have not been revealed yet.