A way to make everybody happy

[Backpack2]

We all are excited about WoW:C and everybody of us has a different opinion about how it should be done. Yet we all agree that WoW:C won't be LIKE WoW 2004. There are two strong fractions here, the purist and the modernists. I think we would ruin the game for one fraction if we really force our ideals on the other ones so why not take a approach that has worked in the past? A simple switch like they did in Halo: The Master Chief Collection (Halo: Combat Evolved) ([Since this is my first post i cannot provide you with links, but your welcome to do a quick google])

1.) about the patch level & bug fixes
1.1) patch level
We all loved the classic experience and the greatest of it was 1.12.2 and thats where we should stay. First of all it was the most & best balanced of all of classic. It's not the perfect solution but the best we have - since all of the overpowered abilities are known by this point the majority of the player base would choose a class/race that would be considered unfair by the others and would slowly be patched over time. That makes no sense. Also having not connected flight paths is a insane idea, it was implemented because it was a pain in the ass not to be able to travel long distances without watching your char fly for minutes just to click 2 times to make the char fly for another 5 minutes. also having them added later is just a waste of time. I'm not talking about LFG/LFR or summon on meeting stones here just that ALL that is considered classic should be included. And finally BGs and connected auction houses. I read a lot that the BGs were just a way to balance the server load. That may be true to some extend but that weren't the intention that was behind it. They should be available at the beginning since it was always a great experience we had fighting there and did not minimize the city raids and/or the open world PVP. I hope its clear that the point im trying to make (with all of these random examples) is that we should not come up with some excuse to make the game fit our personal nostalgia but to make it the most fun experience for all of us.

1.2) bugs
bugs were everywhere back in the day. I remember all of the many and random wow crashes to well. My client crashed a lot for some reason when there was a pvp-fight going on in Hillsbrad Foothills and there were a lot of them. And after every crash i had to run the wowrepair.exe that took its time. Nobody seriously can want this back or the random glitches that made you fall trough the ground, often happen when you were climbing a hill. Some of the bugs were fun and other were game breaking. Thats why the devs should start on 1.12.2 and fixing bugs that were in classic. Bugs are unindented behavior and are not meant to be there. Its like somebody is keying your car and you would claim that it wasn't bad at that time or didn't bother you, same goes for bugs. If there is a solution to get them out of the game, even if there were there in 2004 they shouldn't be in 2018.


2.) about the graphics & models
All of us love the comic style of WoW and yet all of us have a different approach to how to get this 2004 feeling in 2018/19. The only solution to this is a switch that allows us to switch between the old 2004 models and graphics and the new ones. Its totally legitimate to want the 2004 look but you cannot argue that all of us want that. The textures are a swamp of pixels and the models look just outdated. If theres a switch like there is in Halo: The Master Chief Collection (Halo: Combat Evolved) (Link removed since its a new account) why is half of the threads about WoW:C about the graphics. If you don't like the new models/shadows fine, just switch but forcing them on the other players would just make them leave. The graphics cannot be the point of all of this, its a legitimate aspect of the game, yes but just that, a aspect.


3.) about the user interface
3.1a) a approach for a updated interface vs the old one
like with the graphics there should be a toggle for a updated interface with minimal changes and the old one. The WoW 2004 interface was made for non-wide screen monitors and therefore looks like that. There is absolutly no reason to have the 2004-Quest log back. I personally would go with the Patch 3.3 Quest log. [Since this is my first post i cannot provbide you with links, but your welcome to do a quick google]

3.1b) some interface changes that weren't in classic you cannot leave out anymore
Simple things like the clock that shows you the local time and the server time. If you ever been overseas (like work & travel in Australia as a euopean student) the dual clock just saved you a lot of hassle. But also things like the calendar. Unlike LFG/LFR the calendar was something we had back in the day. Yes u had to open your browser and yes u had to navigate to the guilds website but why should we do this? Its just beyond me why this is a better approach than having it in game. Also you just can look up when the next events are (like Winterfest). Unlike LFG/LFR this is provided by other websites anyway so not to integrate it is just a waste of time. And if you really really don't like it, just use the toggle to turn it off). Also having a stats/achievements in WoW:C. Yes i want to see how many times i died in the game and yes i want to get a achievement if i done something great. Should be there any rewards for that? No. Should it be a requirement for anything (like in legion for the flying ability) No.

3.1c) the menus
yes, we gotta change that too. In 2004 the menus filled the whole screen ([Since this is my first post i cannot provide you with links, but your welcome to do a quick google]) and you could barley change anything. Its nothing game breaking or not purist enough to have the current (yes the patch 7.3.5 menus) in WoW:C. The menus are maybe the most overlooked changes in WoW but if you played all theses years you remember that the devs changed them a lot. The current approach with having a clear and structured menu with a add on tab is simply the best way to do it.

3.2) Interface add ons
The 2004 API of WoW literally allowed you to change and to do anything. There were add ons like healbot (im not sure on the name) that basically were hacks. Blizzard limited the capability of the add ons for a good reason and it should stay like this. To make things easy Blizz should just use the patch 7.3.5 API so add ons work for both clients. Also like mention in point 3.2 doing this would de-clutter the interface. Back then you had to use add ons for add ons like Minimapbuttonbag which only function was to collect all the add on buttons (and you had at least 20 of them) into another button. Also every add on had a different way to change settings in the chat and it was annoying. Add on 1 was like "/add1 change THING1-412 1,2,3,32" while another Add on handled it like "/add2 5" and Add on 3 handled it with a menu in a menu in a mini map button. If you don't know what im talking about consider yourself very lucky.


4.) about game mechanics
4.1 WoW Token
There will be gold sellers. Like on non official servers there will be gold sellers on WoW:C too. The only working approach that i have seen is the WoW Token. Do i like it? HELL NO. But it is the only working thing we got. Banning gold sellers/buyers? Yes but you know, they just create another account.

4.2) Phasing
This is kinda personal for me because phasing (introduced in WotlK) was the point where the game broke for me. Luckily there was no phasing in any way in Vanilla-WoW and there shouldn't! If the realms are not populated so be it. I literally hate that you just get phased with other realms because that just make sure the quest-mobs are dead and you don't make any friends since the people are fading away after 15 minutes.

4.3) Live/Classic-Cross
WoW:C should be separated completely form the current WoW.

5.) about the technical backbone
There are some necessary changes to the games engine. Like support for dual monitors and IPv6. I think this is a non issue and everybody agrees on that. Also integrating the client in the new Battle.net.



Since i am playing on a european server, i cannot post on the official US forums ([Since this is my first post i cannot provide you with links]) where the devs are keeping their eyes on. So if any of you want to copy & paste this there, you are free to do so. This is about spreading the idea and i want to discuss (or at least read) with all of you.
updated: v1.0 - 2018-02-16 12:49 pm CET

[Bythedar]

You cannot. Just a fact of existence.

[Kantoro]

"A way to make everybody happy"

Does not exist. Some people live to complain, it is all they know how to do.

[lummiuster]

You really think WoW token is there to prevent gold sellers? lool. Explain me how selling 180k gold for $16 will prevent people from buying 1Million gold for $10.

[jellmoo]

I like the way you presented this. I don't agree with all of it, but it's well written and your thoughts are clearly conveyed.

Sadly, it won't matter as there are a vocal minority that are convinced that they are 100% right and will not accept any compromises, even ones that wounldn''t even affect them.

[Demolished]

You really think WoW token is there to prevent gold sellers? lool. Explain me how selling 180k gold for $16 will prevent people from buying 1Million gold for $10.

You find me that rate and I will break the ToS, this is not remotely accurate and you should be ashamed for stating it as fact.

I'm not sure I can link the top gold selling websites, but for Illidan the rates are as follows across 3 websites.

1,000,000 gold = 165$
http://prntscr.com/ifqwgk

1$ = 7146 gold. // 140$
http://prntscr.com/ifr3nx

1,000,000 gold = 162$
http://prntscr.com/ifr4v7

Noticing a trend here? The gold rates were DESTROYED BY THE TOKEN, and the only people that don't realize this never used the third party market after the token was implemented.

[Projectmars]

We all loved the classic experience and the greatest of it was 1.12.2 and thats where we should stay.

Patch 1.12 does not capture the full extent of the Classic Experience. The only reason why people seem to be ok with this is because private servers are forced to run 1.12 due to limitations. Since Blizzard won't be bound by these, they can give a more authentic experience than those illegal frauds ever could.

[Teri]

We all loved the classic experience and the greatest of it was 1.12.2 and thats where we should stay

Don't state this like it's a fact, cause it's not. And certainly not for a fresh start.

[Vineri]

Bugs, yes.

The rest, no thanks.

Tokens ruin the value of gold, which many people underestimate. Gold in Vanilla IS Power. Blizzard is more efficient at preventing botting and account thefts nowadays. If you think I want to PVP against someone will full flasks/potions/buffs because they paid for power, guess again. If someone wants to risk a ban for buying gold, by all means - hope they get tossed.

Graphics may be all well and fine for PVE, but when it comes to PVP, the version that has the slightest edge will be the one used, as an advantage. Player detection may be on uneven ground. Responsiveness may be a factor as well.

Phasing. No. I want a server community. If someone on my server is nearby, I WANT to see them. CRZ blows too, but don't think you mentioned that.

Addons simply nerf challenge, complexity. If anything limit addon interaction to very basic functionality, like in the original.

I'm not sure what Blizzard has in mind for engine upgrades, but if it does not "feel" like Vanilla, then it's just another Hollywood reboot. We all know how well those end, don't we?

[MMKing]

I can already see it.

Looking for more to form pre-made. ''insert the common generic requirements, skill, gear, class, time etc''. Need to spend real life money to purchase consumables if needs be.



The wow token for gold only works on retail because gold holds no actual value. In classic wow, people will farm materials for hours on end for gold that you bought with real life money. So that you can spend 30-60 gold an hour winning battlegrounds, facing people that will think twice before using consumables that may win them the game. Playing in a WSG premade, facing an opposing premade is probably the most expensive endeavor you can engage in, short of progress raiding in Naxxramas.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

No changes.

[FertsBlert]

You really think WoW token is there to prevent gold sellers? lool. Explain me how selling 180k gold for $16 will prevent people from buying 1Million gold for $10.

Even if your numbers weren't completely wrong there is the fact that people will buy gold from Blizz because there is absolutely no chance of your account being flagged for action and surprisingly if you offer an option that is legal at a reasonable price people tend to use it.

Bugs, yes.

The rest, no thanks.

Tokens ruin the value of gold, which many people underestimate. Gold in Vanilla IS Power. Blizzard is more efficient at preventing botting and account thefts nowadays. If you think I want to PVP against someone will full flasks/potions/buffs because they paid for power, guess again. If someone wants to risk a ban for buying gold, by all means - hope they get tossed.

Graphics may be all well and fine for PVE, but when it comes to PVP, the version that has the slightest edge will be the one used, as an advantage. Player detection may be on uneven ground. Responsiveness may be a factor as well.

Phasing. No. I want a server community. If someone on my server is nearby, I WANT to see them. CRZ blows too, but don't think you mentioned that.

Addons simply nerf challenge, complexity. If anything limit addon interaction to very basic functionality, like in the original.

I'm not sure what Blizzard has in mind for engine upgrades, but if it does not "feel" like Vanilla, then it's just another Hollywood reboot. We all know how well those end, don't we?

I used to PvP with full buffs because why not and I never bought gold you could arrange for all the pots\flasks and other buffs quite easily through normal play and the Token will be there as it seems this will be linked to your retail account. People will need to have the ability to pay for Classic even if they do not play retail, also do you think Blizz is going to turn down a chance to make money while keeping gold sellers away?

The Vanilla client was far more open to mods and those mods had much greater functionality, even macro's could do a lot more 'in the original'.

[ydraw]

I can already see it.

Looking for more to form pre-made. ''insert the common generic requirements, skill, gear, class, time etc''. Need to spend real life money to purchase consumables if needs be.



The wow token for gold only works on retail because gold holds no actual value. In classic wow, people will farm materials for hours on end for gold that you bought with real life money. So that you can spend 30-60 gold an hour winning battlegrounds, facing people that will think twice before using consumables that may win them the game. Playing in a WSG premade, facing an opposing premade is probably the most expensive endeavor you can engage in, short of progress raiding in Naxxramas.

Gold has plenty of value in retail. People use gold to pay people to play with them. Carries for both PVE and PVP content are everywhere.

[Soon-TM]

I consider myself a purist, but I have no problem with things like improved graphics/animations/models (as long as they are optional), bug fixes, bnet integration, better API (the original one basically allowed you to cheese), that kind of stuff. But things like CRZ, LFG/R or class balance are huge red flags for me.

[Storfan]

A BIG FU**ING NO! to achivements.

achivements is like gearscore-light. If you have it then people will be:

"LFM: MC Pug. Link achi or no invite".

F**K that shit.

[dacoolist]

I hope blizz keeps every damn vanilla bug in game along with the 2004 shit ass game engine just to show people how damn bad the game was back then. It was grindy, buggy, laggy, and more imbalanced than people these days could ever fucking imagine.

I hope the new classic wow servers crash and burn every nostalgia cry baby away from WoW forever

[Ton00]

yeah like blizz is going leave broken op skills in game like unlimited fears etc dream on

[Veyne]

or class balance are huge red flags for me.

This is the single argument about classic I cannot get behind. It's literally saying "The game was terrible and unbalanced, but being so bad is what made it good."

What the actual hell?

[Deleted]

I see only one reason this was posted from an alt account. Because the OP wanted to spark a new pruist vs non purist discussion.

It takes a complete retard to say that those specific things will make everyone happy.

You get 1 point simply for the lenght of the post


1/10

[Vineri]

Even if your numbers weren't completely wrong there is the fact that people will buy gold from Blizz because there is absolutely no chance of your account being flagged for action and surprisingly if you offer an option that is legal at a reasonable price people tend to use it.

Things change. I am familiar with players having the gold removed from them when caught buying. Try getting your money back from a Chinese bank exchange. Yes your account gets flagged / punished. Generally into the next month, so you still count as a subscriber.

I used to PvP with full buffs because why not and I never bought gold you could arrange for all the pots\flasks and other buffs quite easily through normal play and the Token will be there as it seems this will be linked to your retail account. People will need to have the ability to pay for Classic even if they do not play retail, also do you think Blizz is going to turn down a chance to make money while keeping gold sellers away?

The Vanilla client was far more open to mods and those mods had much greater functionality, even macro's could do a lot more 'in the original'.

Cool, if you earned your potions and flasks, then you know the value of them, and how hard they are to afford / create. We're talking Black Lotus rarity. You earned all your stuff in-game and you played Vanilla, good job.

I would prefer people not be able to use their credit cards to buy power, all the same. It wasn't fair then, it isn't fair now.

It's called Pay to Win P2W.

It's Blizzard's job to stop it from happening, not to welcome it. It's why WoW is not a free-to-play shitfest. People pay a monthly fee for a level play field. If the equality disappears, so do the customers. Gold IS Power in Vanilla.