Remember when hunters were fine? Zero in M CoS.

[bullseyed]

What kind of buffs do we need to be able to get into a raid group again?

Hunters should be given access to battleshout or a crit buff that could apply to casters and physical DPS.

SV should get a flat 10% damage buff at a minimum, likely revised higher after seeing how it goes.

[Grim32]

What kind of buffs do we need to be able to get into a raid group again?

Hunters should be given access to battleshout or a crit buff that could apply to casters and physical DPS.

SV should get a flat 10% damage buff at a minimum, likely revised higher after seeing how it goes.

It's a 2 boss raid. This is cutting edge where every % matters. It's expected that some classes will be left out in favor of others. It does not mean buffs are needed. That's making a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Uko]

Color me shocked a raid with all those targets to spread dot cleave doesn't suit a class that only does bunched up aoe.

[Nythiz]

I don't think hunters are in too bad a spot. Could we use some love? Yes. But it's not end of the world crazy.

If you look at mythic BoD, marksman is one of the higher dps (especially considering MM can't really handles 2 target cleave and spread AoE well).

BM is just on the low end of average, but that isn't a huge deal.

SV is all over the place. But survival's problem is not damage. Survival's problem is that it adds nothing to the already quite full melee group. It lacks the utility and versatility that other melee specs bring. Buffing damage won't really change that, outside of perhaps buffing the DPS to overpowered values.

Then we're often dropping off, dps wise, due to AoE (particularly: spread AoE).

MM's AoE is very much crippled by having the target restriction (3-6 mobs) and requires targets to be alive for a decent amount of time + being grouped well.

BM's AoE is quite strong, but also deals with spread AoE very poorly.

SV's AoE is much more limited due to it's talents. Plus it's AoE is very centered around a combination of a DoT that requires mobs to live quite long, and a bomb that requires very strict positioning and targeting. So it has this small ramp up time, then peaks after that ramp up and then drops again as the sustained AoE damage isn't great either. Also the scaling can't be really great with only 2 abilities (3 incl carve) really having an impact in AoE.

Ironically this is where the old ranged survival would have been nice to have. Having a ranged class that's good at multi-dotting and dealing with spread AoE is exactly what would fill the void we have in this class now.

[Jester Joe]

Almost every DPS spec needs a buff going by CoS, besides shadow priests and warlocks.

This doesn't really prove much, as pointed out it's the dots.

[Eapoe]

We’re also in the first week of a new raid. You will start seeing more as lower ranked guilds clear it, but on a 2 boss raid that has spread damage and lots of multi targeting why would you expect to see Hunters with top end guilds that run multiple alts for faster, efficient kills?

[RaZz0r]

Hunters are still "fine" they could do with some loving but they are not shit by any means but they are not the best for the task required the raid is not tuned for us normal people yet its tuned for some of the best with every class geared to the teeth ready to go and for it to still be quite the challenge for those at the top

[Bepples]

Ironically this is where the old ranged survival would have been nice to have. Having a ranged class that's good at multi-dotting and dealing with spread AoE is exactly what would fill the void we have in this class now.

This is exactly why anyone who put forward the idea that "Survival was just the same thing as Marksmanship so Hunters lost nothing when SV went melee" should be called out for being brazenly ignorant, including Ion Hazzikostas, Adam Kugler, Chad Nervig, and any other Blizzard hack pretending to be a real developer. Here we are in a tier which favours ranged DoT specs and we don't have that specifically because SV went melee instead of the multidot framework that was being developed since Cataclysm.

[Kaver]

Remember when Hunters didn't cry all the time? No me neither.

[cparle87]

This is exactly why anyone who put forward the idea that "Survival was just the same thing as Marksmanship so Hunters lost nothing when SV went melee" should be called out for being brazenly ignorant, including Ion Hazzikostas, Adam Kugler, Chad Nervig, and any other Blizzard hack pretending to be a real developer. Here we are in a tier which favours ranged DoT specs and we don't have that specifically because SV went melee instead of the multidot framework that was being developed since Cataclysm.

I thought homogenization was bad. I thought "every class shouldn't have everything" was the war cry. Oh no. Hunters don't have a spec that excels at these 2 bosses. Blizz obviously doesn't know what they're doing. Also, calling out people and name calling makes you sound like a 5 year old. Things change. Either accept it... or whine about it.

[Khallid]

Hunters are not the only class being shafted in this raid.

The amount of shadow priests on the first kills of Restless Cabal is insane. Almost no melee as well. I haven't seen the comps they're using on Uu'nat but I'm going to guess it's still tons of shadow priests.

[Uko]

This is exactly why anyone who put forward the idea that "Survival was just the same thing as Marksmanship so Hunters lost nothing when SV went melee" should be called out for being brazenly ignorant, including Ion Hazzikostas, Adam Kugler, Chad Nervig, and any other Blizzard hack pretending to be a real developer. Here we are in a tier which favours ranged DoT specs and we don't have that specifically because SV went melee instead of the multidot framework that was being developed since Cataclysm.

This is why I still cant believe they passed up the perfect chance to make a hunter tank with the survival name and made a generic melee spec that gives no benefit or reason to bring one to a raid.

[ydraw]

We’re also in the first week of a new raid. You will start seeing more as lower ranked guilds clear it, but on a 2 boss raid that has spread damage and lots of multi targeting why would you expect to see

Eventually I'd expect to see some kind of ability or talent that allows hunters to damage more than 1 enemy at a time, like we used to have when ranged survival was a thing.

[FLANOFETT]

Eventually I'd expect to see some kind of ability or talent that allows hunters to damage more than 1 enemy at a time, like we used to have when ranged survival was a thing.

Need to make Volley a button that you push again. Make it function similar to how it did in Vanilla but not channeled and put it on a 45 second cool down. make it actually do damage.

[Nitros14]

Multidotting is way too strong right now. You can have a niche without absolutely dominating people who don't have that niche.

[Gasparde]

They are right there with Mages who haven't been brought for anything in all of BoD except to provide an Int buff for the other 13 Shadow Priests.

Class balance is stupid atm. Their stupid hard-on for every spec having to have certain niches (while then completely refusing to nerfs specs that are just good or flat out busted on everything) is beyond stupid. Designing an encounter that ridiculously favours multi-dotters after a raid that heavily favoured multi-dotters (multi-dotters that were even bis on ST fights) also signifies that the developers are stupid.

Their silly little niche project isn't working, specs that don't require a niche to perform well are simply brought for everything. Fuck this niche thing, fuck specs having to choose between ST, burst and sustained AoE via talents, fuck only a handful of specs bringing something unique to the table. Fuck this whole class design team, they clearly fail at whatever it is they're attempting.

[Marrilaife]

What kind of buffs do we need to be able to get into a raid group again?

Hunters should be given access to battleshout or a crit buff that could apply to casters and physical DPS.

Because that definitely helps dps warriors to secure raid spots... oh wait.

I'll cry for hunter's fate after dks, rets, dps warrs & monks and all the other "not able to get into a raid group" classes are fixed first. But that would require Blizzard actually designing raid bosses for everyone instead of just locks and similar.

Tbh what's the hard-on for locks in dev team, since Nighthold they're must bring to every raid comp, not sure if any other class has that luxury (spriests were crap in uldir for example).

[Speedlance]

mm hunters need to go back to legion style. much more fun.

[Gasparde]

Tbh what's the hard-on for locks in dev team, since Nighthold they're must bring to every raid comp, not sure if any other class has that luxury (spriests were crap in uldir for example).

Warlocks have 3 very different specs that can all cover different situations. You have Affli with a bunch of spread out stuff, Destro for 2 target and demo is pretty swell for low movement and clumped up stuff. With all of these being covered they pretty much just need to get the numbers somewhat right and Warlocks are good. Many other classes don't have the luxury of having 3 well defined specs - like the 3 hunter specs overlap in so many cases yet they all suck once enemies are more than 10yds apart. Hunters sadly can't just swap specs or even swap talents to become gods at 2 target cleave fights, hunters can't change from ST to spread out multi target specs, hunters can change from ST... to another ST... or ST melee.

Warlocks are simply well designed (arguably maybe not as good as they used to be, but still, well rounded class), other classes simply aren't so they often end up in these balance feast or famine situations.

[Marrilaife]

Warlocks are simply well designed (arguably maybe not as good as they used to be, but still, well rounded class), other classes simply aren't so they often end up in these balance feast or famine situations.

Why wouldn't Blizzard make mages, hunters, warriors, dks etc. classes with multiple dps specs excel in different situations then?

They could make mm excel on spread aoe for example by redesigning the spec. They could make it an excellent execute spec. Something that would make it stand out.

BM already has a niche that is high mobility scenarios, but it needs to actually do good dps in these cases, atm boomkins / locks still win in high movement scenarios over bm hunters. Pet pathing also needs still work, case on point last boss in siege of boralus.