So is Shadowlands good?

[Ashleyxoxo]

Yes, we've had this thread before, but that was during launch. Now we can review what actually matters: the endgame. Is Shadowlands worth it? I feel like people will say "yes" just because it's better than BFA.

[kaminaris]

Not better than BfA, not even close. There are fundamental problems with game design decisions that will ultimately led to either swift change or mass exodus of more casual players.

Just because loot is now rare doesn't make it meaningful. Frustration of loot starvation is going to lead players away.
Just because travel is slow doesn't make it more fun because ultimately it just wasting time.
There is absolutely no bad luck protection and ultimately RNG is much more prominent.
Raids are again main focus of the game, its time to stop this (raider saying this).

[Jinpachi]

Not better than BfA, not even close. There are fundamental problems with game design decisions that will ultimately led to either swift change or mass exodus of more casual players.

Just because loot is now rare doesn't make it meaningful. Frustration of loot starvation is going to lead players away.
Just because travel is slow doesn't make it more fun because ultimately it just wasting time.
There is absolutely no bad luck protection and ultimately RNG is much more prominent.
Raids are again main focus of the game, its time to stop this (raider saying this).

1. Agree 100%
2. Agree 100%. Fuck non flying mounts, and DOUBLE FUCK no mounts in the maw.
3. Not a min/maxer or progression raider anymore, so don't care too much about this.
4. Make story-based raid scenarios, with appropriate loot. a "pre LFR" raid scenario, if you will. learn mechanics, get some upgrades, enjoy the story without waiting to be carried 4 months down the road just to see relevant narrative.

[Ringthane]

In a word, no. I've said this elsewhere, but every time I log in any more I sit there and ask "why am I doing this and why should I care?" I've never felt that way about an expansion, and I've been very vocal about my dislike for Cataclysm. Even that had more resonance with me than this steaming pile.

(And before anyone asks "then why are you still playing", my subscription ends in a couple of weeks. I'm just wasting time until then - I paid for the time, so I might as well use it.

[Masternap]

I voted yes, but I'm at a point where there's nothing to do anymore but raid. And the stuff that I did do just led to some cosmetic rewards I don't really care about. I'm guessing this will happen in the next few weeks to most players. We'll see what happens then.

[Voidwielder]

Player since late 2006.

Yes, it is. Better than BfA by a mile. Can't wait to start doing other Covenants on alts but for now I am focused on getting Curve and 15s achievement.

The loss of those who can't get used to the relatively slow gearing - which is still fast if that really bothers you - will be a net positive for the game.

[msmollymillions]

its meh. I had more fun at the start of Legion even with RNG legendary items and the crappy AP grind. They just took what was the slog of grinding AP to power up and slowed down gearing a ton so it feels like a slog in PvE. Plus you have to "gear" your soulbinds with conduits and also deal with the time gated renown system. Like the previous two WoW expansions it's already looking like one where the content isn't bad, but the systems are trash other than Conquest/Arena/RBG gearing. Honor gearing is ok but locking 197 behind a renown level that is so high you will outgear honor gear before you hit it is dumb. Basically the best time to play this expansion like Legion or BFA will be in the final patch when they've got lots of QoL improvements to the badly designed systems.

[kaminaris]

1. Agree 100%
2. Agree 100%. Fuck non flying mounts, and DOUBLE FUCK no mounts in the maw.
3. Not a min/maxer or progression raider anymore, so don't care too much about this.
4. Make story-based raid scenarios, with appropriate loot. a "pre LFR" raid scenario, if you will. learn mechanics, get some upgrades, enjoy the story without waiting to be carried 4 months down the road just to see relevant narrative.

Exactly because you are not min/maxer nor raider (well, like most players), you will hit a hard wall in progressing your character.
Because the only relevant loot is from great vault (weekly bingo lottery), and that is pure rng.
And because you don't farm M+ (you dont pull enough slot machines) you won't have enough weekly lottery tickets.

Unless you absolutely don't give a flying fuck about your gear.

[Denso]

Nah, they had a good formulae with M+ which they broke with Shadowlands.

We need titanforging back, and they need to up the ilevel of M+ loot.

There's a lot of us that strictly enjoy M+ and have no desire to raid or PvP, we're so far behind on gear for doing the actual keys it's a joke.

Best thing would be if we could have stats that separated raid, PvP and dungeon gear so that they didn't impact each other at all.

Probably just finishing off all the 15s then pausing till next season.

[Masternap]

We need titanforging back

Of all the things to hate about SL you pick the one people wanted to get rid of for years? Are you serious?

[Smash Adams]

Perfect? No. Good? Absolutely.

[kaminaris]

Of all the things to hate about SL you pick the one people wanted to get rid of for years? Are you serious?

"People"? Which people? Let me tell you: people that had no clue of implications of static gear, people that farm content hard, people that didn't know the actual math, people that had OCD, people who parroted streamer without giving it a second thought.

TF wasn't perfect but it was far better for overall health of the game than the rng shit we have now.

[Osmeric]

It's catastrophically bad. It may spell the end of the Warcraft franchise. I expect massive changes at Blizzard.

[Hibiki]

Nope. It's WAY worse then BfA. Everything is SLOWER and more time consuming. This is boring design. Class and covenant balance is joke.

[shoc]

It's definitely good, but there's a long way to go before it's great.

[Voidwielder]

"People"? Which people? Let me tell you: people that had no clue of implications of static gear, people that farm content hard, people that didn't know the actual math, people that had OCD, people who parroted streamer without giving it a second thought.

TF wasn't perfect but it was far better for overall health of the game than the rng shit we have now.

Here's my Christmas gift to you - you are fucking moron.

We have a clear path of gearing and instead of getting only one choice, you can work your way up to 9 options for max ilvl gear. Anyone who is serious about gearing and M+, runs at least 3-5 dungeons a week. And killing the few easiest HC bosses will give you another option to choose from. We have far less RNG to deal with now than in BfA.



- - - Updated - - -

Nope. It's WAY worse then BfA. Everything is SLOWER and more time consuming. This is boring design. Class and covenant balance is joke.

Ran through S1 logs just now and either you have memory loss problems or you didn't play then.

[Doffen]

Yes. 10 times better than BfA. If the content we got now in 9.0.2 was all of the content in Shadowlands that alone is at better quality and quantity than the dull shit we got in BfA.

Work today, and then I have 3 full days of devoted to play WoW after 2 full months of work work.

Bought myself a pyjamas yesterday, gonna jump into that when I come home from Christmas dinner tonight and its not coming off before I go to work again on Monday! Shadowlands ftw!

[WowIsDead64]

Yes, we've had this thread before, but that was during launch. Now we can review what actually matters: the endgame. Is Shadowlands worth it? I feel like people will say "yes" just because it's better than BFA.

Still too early to tell. It will depend on gates and changes in future patches. If Blizzard will cater to "infinite grind, gate everything, no catch-ups" crowd, then this xpack will be lost again, as it happened with BFA.

Overall it's better, than BFA. Not as good, as Draenor was (in terms of quality - not quantity). At least it's playable. But if we'll take BFA's leveling and 8.0 experience alone, then we'll realize, that they weren't that bad. It's future patches, that ruined this xpack.

Current situation is promising. Yeah, we have time-gates now. But at least they'll be lifted within 2.5 months. There are some problems here and there. Like mandatory Maw, broken leveling path and Nazjatar-like design of some WQs. But they're bearable.

[Baroclinic]

I'm not impressed with it one bit. They went stingy on gear so your running everything each week for a few measley drops (if that). But, to my surprise, I find that I can just buy near equivalent crap with honor and upgrade it 4 times.. with honor. All that time wasted in mythics....
Legendaries, not only are they another grind, but I expect them to also become a gold sink too. Everytime you want to upgrade, prepare to grind dust and then buy the base items off the AH.
Any ease of travel is gone. Hope you saved your Dalaran hearths and teleport stuff. Or be an engineer.

The storylines are ok and coherent. It's the only thing I have to enjoyed, but instances went back to Cataclysm quality (more work, less rewards). I may eventually sit back and just wait for flying before resubbing.

[kaminaris]

Here's my Christmas gift to you - you are fucking moron.

We have a clear path of gearing and instead of getting only one choice, you can work your way up to 9 options for max ilvl gear. Anyone who is serious about gearing and M+, runs at least 3-5 dungeons a week. And killing the few easiest HC bosses will give you another option to choose from. We have far less RNG to deal with now than in BfA.

You don't have a clear path dude, not even in alternative reality. Your gear from dungeons is shit compared to weekly bingo lottery.
And those 3-5 runs won't ever allow you to "clearly" get the gear you want.
The only people who can get what they want is mythic raiders and even then, it's not even close to being "done" after months.

We have much much more rng than BfA ever was, you just don't know math and never really understood probability.
This is a lie, that you believed in.

At the very least it's not as bad as legion legendaries rng was.