20k DPS... - Rawr lies

[Dangerfield]

I just loaded my armoury to rawr and after having configured various settings it is telling me that on a fight like HM chim I should be pulling 20k - 21k dps.

Currently I am only pulling 17-18k dps on this fight (and many similar fights that require not much movement/ no adds). That is a loss of 2k-3k. I don't understand what I am doing wrong apart from maybe getting a gimped combustion and thats not going to equal a loss of 3k dps.

Here is my chim log .worldoflogs.com/reports/eobts9gmlu3ust8o/sum/damageDone/?s=9856&e=10255
Here is my Armory us.battle.net/wow/en/character/thaurissan/coppas/simple


Any advice on play style or gearing would be aweesomee i do not enjoy rawr telling me I am bad.

(also should i be LB both valiona and theralion at all times? always wondered)
Thanks

[Reyzzz]

I don't think Rawr takes -75% hit debuff into account.

[Tastic]

I wouldn't take it to heart if you're not doing EXACTLY what Rawr says... It's a bench mark basically and is never 100% correct. It's just an estimated DPS output but along with that there could be some globals you're missing or maybe you're forgetting to prepot. Maybe crits/procs are a bit off... there could be anything that does it.

Yes, you should be DPSing both Valiona and Theralion by the way. Whenever the Dragon in flight is in range there should be some of your dots or direct damage on it.

[Dangerfield]

I don't think Rawr takes -75% hit debuff into account.

Even so from our most recent run ( i was away that night ) my other guildies where all pulling 19-22k, which is where i should be!

[Deleted]

i suppose the Latency and movement may have to do something.

RAWR simply tells you what would be possible in a perfect Situation.
Being slightly below that is not surprising

[ICEBERG]

Even so from our most recent run ( i was away that night ) my other guildies where all pulling 19-22k, which is where i should be!

And you're blaming the benchmark? If you just follow the instructions that Rawr does, like prioritize certain spells and so on. Is your latency at the same level as Rawr states? Do you use the spells accordingly? Do you move alot? Do you have the spells keybinded, do you watch the timers?

L2P bro

[Fojos]

i suppose the Latency and movement may have to do something.

RAWR simply tells you what would be possible in a perfect Situation.
Being slightly below that is not surprising

What Ryukaa said.

Latency and movement play a huge part in DPS. Those parts are usually what differentiates a good and a mediocre player.

[Exera]

Even so from our most recent run ( i was away that night ) my other guildies where all pulling 19-22k, which is where i should be!

Well they probably got lucky and hit less by his spit.

I can go from pulling 20k+ to 17k just because one night I get chained spit on and the next I hardly get any at all.

[soberundertow]

sims are best used as JUST ANOTHER TOOL to compare things

they are not a benchmark for what you should be doing

[Raevene]

Rawr seems to be a bit all over the place atm in terms of accuracy. It won't even recognise my enchants at the moment when I load from Battle.net, apart from the rare occasion when it'll decide to give me the wrong ones.

[Dangerfield]

What Ryukaa said.

Latency and movement play a huge part in DPS. Those parts are usually what differentiates a good and a mediocre player.

I don't think I move in in HM chim, blink in for feud, blink back out.
As for latency I don't think it plays a huge issues in this fight apart from maybe having LB refreshed .5 seconds later than with a 0 ms.

And to Iceberg I know exactly how to play my class well, that is why it is incredibly annoying if rawr is telling me im 3k off, even if that is a perfect situation with perfect combustions, ect.

[Exera]

I don't think I move in in HM chim, blink in for feud, blink back out.
As for latency I don't think it plays a huge issues in this fight apart from maybe having LB refreshed .5 seconds later than with a 0 ms.

And to Iceberg I know exactly how to play my class well, that is why it is incredibly annoying if rawr is telling me im 3k off, even if that is a perfect situation with perfect combustions, ect.

Thing is though, you put to much weight into what rawr says, that particular fight has some variables that is completely random.

[Donkeypuncher]

Rawr is a guide, not something that is set in stone. There are a dozen reasons why your not hitting what it "suggests".

1. Reaction time
2. Latency
3. Rawr is dumb
4. Etc
5. Etc
6. Etc

Just remember, your a fire mage, and your subject to some of the biggest rng in the game. Don't ever expect to be consistent like a program tells you your going to be.

[Jontus]

You should post a log if you think you are playing "perfectly"

RAWR is just the potential of what you can do in the perfect situation while played perfectly and the RNG falls in line with exactly what RAWR predicts, it's not going to be 100% accurate.

[Dangerfield]

Thing is though, you put to much weight into what rawr says, that particular fight has some variables that is completely random.

Ok but say for example we look at world of logs, Mage pulling 21k dps

.worldoflogs.com/reports/o7be9wjo05gybw0m/sum/damageDone/?s=5550&e=5922

He got hit by 28 Caustic slime, I got hit by 25 in the log i posted. His gear is maybe 1 ilvls higher than mine. Yet he is pulling 3k more Dps. Now he may of had a really good fight but i still shouldn't be that far behind someone who is at the same Gear level as me. Ive compared the logs and I can't really figure out what he is doing to get that extra 3k. Apart from having a 7% greater up time on LB.

[takolin]

RNG, skill, ICD/CD tracking, TotD, PI, DI all could account for a change of damage.

That and blink is a GCD where you don't do damage, you shouldn't use blink unless you're out of range or you really need to get out of the fire now. HS pyro, FO, LB refresh and scorch are all things you should use while moving.

[mrcontribution]

another little secret about rawr, is if you've ever talked to Astrylian about it, specifically classes and specs off the mark, you'll come to realize, ok he plays a feral and does the work for that, and farms out "dev" work to other people, one case in particular when his guild merged with my old one back late in Wrath our hunters asked WTF was going on, turned out a casual Dps warrior from his old guild was doing the work on the hunters..... shit like that means take it with a grain of salt. you are at the mercy of god knows who, who may or not be playing, or perhaps not even playing the class.

[Deleted]

I know latency can be a problem but the mage in my raid group pulls 20k + regularly on our Chimaeron HC run last night (2% wipe makes me emo). I was on about 17.8k but stopped DPSing at 24% to help top people off and was spamming Healing Rain during Feud Phases (Ele Shaman). I guess its just latency and/or unlucky timings on the hit debuff. Miss a combustion or something. Chimaeron is a bit of a harsh fight to compare to "optimal dps", because although compared to most fights in this tier there is not much movement, the hit debuff can effect different classes in different ways. If you miss a really key spell (ie Combustion / Instant-Pyro ect) that goes on cooldown it screws you over, but if you miss say an Arcane Mage (example) missed an AB, they would just cast AB again afterwards and be fine. Personally, the only fight I care about DPS wise is Omnitron Defense. All other bosses either include AoE, tonnes more movement than Omnitron does (sure it has some, but nothing more than a couple of side steps every now and again really). The only other fight that at all if fair dps wise is Nef Normal, but in that fight you still get things like dps having to lose damage to interrupt, or (in my case) offheal to help out.

tl;dr - You probably should be doing 20k + dps on Chimaeron, but lag/low reaction times/bad luck can screw you over. So basically, don't worry about it, Chimaeron isn't a fair fight to measure DPS on anyway.

[Deleted]

Are you double potting?

[Woeful]

Please, you are looking to the sims to see what you should be doing? The simulations have to assume near perfect play. When I run the simulations they say I should be pulling 17K in a 25 man fully buffed situation, when I run it for my typical 10 man buffed condition, I come in at around 13K on the simulators. WHen I do fights like Chimeron I do around 11.5 to 12K. So I have roughly a 12% decrease from a perfect simulation condition to my actual play.

Additionally RAWR and the like, run thousands of simulations to arrive at a range. Look at the range distribution for your RAWR simulations, if you subtract to the lower range, aren't you much closer? Add in latency, and plain human error, the key not firing perfectly variations in latency, and presto you have a winner.

What I don't do is blame the simulation for making certain assumptions and then crunching numbers. The simulations are far better at predicting changes in your dps based on changes to your gear, spec, gemming and reforging. Concentrate on those things if you are min/maxing.

Also you are looking at someone who posted a high number on world of logs. I bet that person does not post every single encounter. So you are looking at the best score of a great player, and using that as a comparison also? Please have fun and give yourself a break.