[Priest] State of Shadow - 4.2.0

[spiralout]

Scuse the hell outa me but shadow priest have been one of the top dps specs in game this ENTIRE xpac dot classes have excelled above the majority your "hybrid" statement is a fallacy try being a "hero" class and losing to hybrids hell just be a melee dps in general and you already have an advantage as a ranged

Out of caster comparison you SHOULD be able to out dps
Warlocks Demo/Destro
Shaman Elemental
Mages Fire/Frost

I read blue posts every day if new ones are up. The "hybrid tax" doesnt exist anymore. Not quoting or anything but in wrath they specifically said they didnt want multi role classes doing the same as single role dpser the "pure dps class".

IMO ele shammys have had the lowest numbers of caster deeps this xpac but most of everyone else claims the top tier of numbers caster wise
Yall deffinatly have a xpac favoring casters now you still have your self surviving tools n such to make great pvp opponents l2p everyone that dps is a dps role there is no support role in game technically besides a smite healing disc priest

Your sig is ""I'm Tru @ w/e I do" ~ TM"
I'm guessing that applies to everything but making a sensible reply to a month old post in The State of Shadow thread.

[Jalek]

After a couple raids for 4.2 I still believe hit cap isn't needed. I raided 5 hours last night, missed 6 spells (2MB, 1MF, 2VT, 1DP) on Alysrazor (normal). I think its the closest thing to a patchwork fight, cause you can cast while you move.

While its true is a measurable loss of dps to miss, those 6 spells were a drop in the bucket compared to the 42 million dmg done for the night.

I'm gonna stay between 15.5 and 16% hit. I still value haste highest to help proc more orbs. I'm not casting MB on CD anymore either, I'm waiting for an orb to boost MB dmg. (obviously mangaging ES the best possible). I value crit higher than mastery also, as the pet seems to return lots more mana. Critting often means even more pets and short CD. somone posted numbers that I agree with above. int>SP>Haste>>crit>mastery

For Alysrazor a large portion of the time you will be dpsing non-skull level mobs so you won't miss them at all with that level of hit, or are you saying that you only missed 6 spells while targetting Alysrazor?

[Keosen]

It's well know that 17% hit can be skipped at the current tier.
I'm raiding since WoTLK with ~16% and since previous week i am @14.63% missing 2-8 spells per fight not intended to change it any time soon

[Brusalk]

It's well know that 17% hit can be skipped at the current tier.
I'm raiding since WoTLK with ~16% and since previous week i am @14.63% missing 2-8 spells per fight not intended to change it any time soon

I took a chance this last week and decided to raid with 10% hit. I think I missed like 10 times the whole week, it's really not necessary, especially since Empowered Shadow is still put up if you miss.

[Arlee]

The value of hit really hasn't changed much this tier at all. The only issue I really forsee is that once you get the 4pc bonus and you miss on a MB then you have effectively rendered your 4pc useless for that cycle. Also the buff in damage might making missing on MB when you have the 4pc. While it certainly will hurt your dps more, I don't think it will be a large enough part of our dps to make it a huge deal. Though we'll have to wait until people have the 4pc to see for sure.

[Deleted]

I took a chance this last week and decided to raid with 10% hit. I think I missed like 10 times the whole week, it's really not necessary, especially since Empowered Shadow is still put up if you miss.

Sorry, I don't believe you

[CaseyTheRetard]

Sorry, I don't believe you

Maybe he only casted 143 spells last week?

[Arlee]

Actually it isn't unusual for the amount you miss in individual raids or weeks to not reflect the % under hit cap you are. Basically just because you are 7% under hitcap does not mean you will always miss 7% of your spells every fight/raid/week. It's the sort of thing that averages out over the long term.

[CaseyTheRetard]

How many spells do you suppose we cast in a given week? For anything over 600 casts, the probability of missing at most 10 times at 93% hit is less than one in a billion. It's possible that happened to someone in the world last week, but unlikely that person is posting on MMOC. Occam's Razor would suggest that Brusalk's recollection is most likely inaccurate.

If Brusalk is that one-in-a-billion person, then I apologize. But posting that experience here as representative of what other priests who raid at 10% hit can expect is not reasonable

[Arlee]

Well... honestly it only applies to spells cast while raiding. Gimmie a min and I'll dig up some logs from when I was under hit cap by almost 2% as an example.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/6lgr4.../3/?enc=bosses

So on that one I missed on .9% of my spells on boss fights. At the time I was at about 15.6% hit which 1.4% under the cap.

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/dzmnn.../5/?enc=bosses

On this one I missed on 3% of my spells. I at no point ever went that far below hit cap.

[Deleted]

Wouldn't the importance of Hit cap go up with 4.2? Since DoTs now do less damage and MB/MF deal more damage, wouldn't it be even more important for those Shadow Orbed Mind Blasts to hit? Yes I know it still gives the Emp. Shadows buff if it misses, but since the damage of the Mind Blast itself is now higher wouldn't we want it to always hit?

[Kilee25]

In my experience, my world of logs reports generally match my hit % almost perfectly. I check the other shadow priest I raid with and his match up too. If it doesn't match up, there's either a bug in the reports or a bug in the game. It's true that you can have an anomoly for a single fight, but for the entire night? No, I'd be inclined to think someone was outright lying or grossly exageratting with that type of claim...

Anywho.... to Erto - yes hit is higher in stat weight in 4.2 than it was in 4.0 and 4.1. It ranges between .4 and .6 in value depending on your current value of gear. I'ts almost always your 2nd or 3rd highest secondary stat weight (only ever behind haste occasionally).

[Arlee]

@Erto- Hit is slightly more important for the reasons you state. However, we are still doing the majority of our dps with our DoTs by a fairly large margin so those misses on MB and sw: death are still pretty small when you look at the overall picture, plus we still cast those two spells far fewer times then we cast everything else. This may change a little more once 4pc is out there as well.

---------- Post added 2011-07-19 at 08:45 PM ----------

That's interesting Kilee because my hit % never seem to match up with what my hit is at.

[CaseyTheRetard]

... If it doesn't match up, there's either a bug in the reports or a bug in the game.

I've never noticed before, but looking at the report Arlee linked it looks like WoL is calculating Miss% incorrectly for DoTs. Mind Flay for example: 10 misses is 1.4%. That would imply the total number of casts is 10/1.4% = 714. If 10 of them missed, then on average Arlee would have had (711+254) / (714-10) = 1.37 ticks per mind flay cast. That's far enough outside the realm of belief that I think we can safely conclude the Miss% is incorrect.

Edit: 10 isn't 1.4% of 965 ticks either, my early conjecture that WoL is calculating Miss% as #Miss / (#Ticks + #Miss) doesn't fit the data either.

Edit Again: 10 is 1.4% of 711 + 10. WoL is calculating Miss% = #Miss / (#non-crit ticks + #Miss) for dots. This holds for Devouring Plague, Mind Flay and Vampiric Touch as well.

[Kilee25]

Hm.. Arlee something weird was going on during the OMD fight to make your miss 8.9%. For all the other fights it was exactly as it should have been. between 1-1.5 miss %. Probably some weird fight mechanic on the OMD fight.

I don't see anything off with those reports. Seems fairly accurate within a normal margin of error.

[CaseyTheRetard]

Hm.. Arlee something weird was going on during the OMD fight to make your miss 8.9%.

None of those "misses" are misses, they are absorbs from Magmatron's shield.

[Worshaka]

Wouldn't the importance of Hit cap go up with 4.2? Since DoTs now do less damage and MB/MF deal more damage, wouldn't it be even more important for those Shadow Orbed Mind Blasts to hit? Yes I know it still gives the Emp. Shadows buff if it misses, but since the damage of the Mind Blast itself is now higher wouldn't we want it to always hit?

I'm inclined to agree with this logic. Missing spells has always hurt nuke damage and with the redistribution of damage (and 4pc T11), spriest nuke spells make up a larger proportion of damage than before.

Also with gear scaling it should be a lot easier to reach the hit cap without completely nerfing other secondary stats, I think it a wise choice to hit cap. Of course some players will disagree and do what they want, but it would seem to me it's time to do the safe thing and hit cap.

[Arlee]

I'm inclined to agree with this logic. Missing spells has always hurt nuke damage and with the redistribution of damage (and 4pc T11), spriest nuke spells make up a larger proportion of damage than before.

Also with gear scaling it should be a lot easier to reach the hit cap without completely nerfing other secondary stats, I think it a wise choice to hit cap. Of course some players will disagree and do what they want, but it would seem to me it's time to do the safe thing and hit cap.

The logic is sound on the surface, however the thing you are discounting here is that our DoTs still do the lion's share of our dps. Yes our Direct Damage spells have a larger share in that before, but not enough to totally make missing one ever a horrible thing.

[Worshaka]

The logic is sound on the surface, however the thing you are discounting here is that our DoTs still do the lion's share of our dps. Yes our Direct Damage spells have a larger share in that before, but not enough to totally make missing one ever a horrible thing.

Considering I'm in mediocre gear and can get 50k MB crits while soloing, that in a raid buffed situation, 4pc T11 in decent gear that MB hits well in excess of 30K regularly. I'm not convinced this is a trivial matter, particularly for a spell that is in the 1.1 to 1.2 second cast range.

Missing out on MF is also going to reset the dot clip timings, and on the assumption you are purposely clipping MF to avoid reaction lag on chain MF casts missing on this spell significantly hurts as well.

Factored into all of this is the fact that hit is simming out within the ball park of haste and in most cases is identical or better than that of the other secondary stats. Worst case scenario from hit capping would be to do identical damage, but in a real case scenario is more than likely going to increase your damage once you account for players not being perfect.

I see very little evidence that places other secondary stats so far above hit to warrant not being at the hit cap any longer.

[Arlee]

Considering I'm in mediocre gear and can get 50k MB crits while soloing, that in a raid buffed situation, 4pc T11 in decent gear that MB hits well in excess of 30K regularly. I'm not convinced this is a trivial matter, particularly for a spell that is in the 1.1 to 1.2 second cast range.

Missing out on MF is also going to reset the dot clip timings, and on the assumption you are purposely clipping MF to avoid reaction lag on chain MF casts missing on this spell significantly hurts as well.

Factored into all of this is the fact that hit is simming out within the ball park of haste and in most cases is identical or better than that of the other secondary stats. Worst case scenario from hit capping would be to do identical damage, but in a real case scenario is more than likely going to increase your damage once you account for players not being perfect.

I see very little evidence that places other secondary stats so far above hit to warrant not being at the hit cap any longer.

Doing 120k on one MB is what % of average damage in a fight? (and yea it can hit that hard I am giving you a best case scenario here). Lets take my totally mediocre total damage done on shannox tonight of 7,786,682. That means if I had a MB that would have hit for 120k and missed then I would miss out on a total of 1.5% of my dps there.... you are right that is huge. Also, that is completely not taking into account that if you are stacking more int/haste/mastery for the hit you are dropping then your spells are all hitting harder all around which also mitigates a miss on MB.

As far as hit always sim'ing out of the ballpark compared to the other stats... no this is not always the case. It depends on the variables you select and what kind of fight style you sim with. I have seen hit/spirit be equal/slightly below mastery.

I am not sure what your point about missing a MF is. Suddenly you are out one GDC if you miss it, but that's not a huge deal either. Also you should be clipping MF for ANY other spell that comes up.

For more information about this read Priest Hit Cap FAQ.

Also last thing, current number 1 ranked shadow priest (#2 overall dps) on shannox http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-qo...&e=5153#Velran take a look at how many times he missed on that fight.