One playing cowardly should not be the winner in PvP

[Christina Paladino]

I understand that many think that Blizzard is balancing the game based on PvE only, but PvP balance needs to be addressed.

Quite simply, I do not hit as hard as a Raid Boss so Healers should not be healing like I am hitting as hard as one.

This imbalance has made PvP feel totaly wrong.

A Shaman hiding behind a box spamming HoTs should not win a battle. Agressive tactics should.

A Pally letting you take his health bar to almost nothing then back to full with one wave of his arm feels cheap. Running them down should result in their dimise, not a cowardly ascape.

A Priest throwing thier arms in the air repeatedly while acomplishing nothing but staying alive feels cowardly. Please don't make simple play-style like this win battles.

A Druid... don't get me started. You get the un-heroic picture.

In conclusion, the most valient, honor based part of the game has "no honor" in its current state... Let me hit as hard as a Raid Boss or fix this properly. Balance is the point.

[Yotei]

The thing is, no single DPS should (although, some can if they play well) be able to kill a healer 1v1 quickly. If they could, 3v3, 5v5, RBGs, and even 2s wouldn't even have healers as they would just roll over.

[oplawlz]

The 25% healing debuff will fix most of this.

[Hunterpower]

What yot said. If healers couldn't survive a single dps, what'd be the point? everyone would zerg a healer, kill it then procceed to run around yelling incoherently saying the game is balanced while healers quit.

[Yvaelle]

Perhaps you should give Diablo 2 or 3 a try, in these games you can cleave through 50 mobs simultaneously with ease.

How is a healer supposed to be able to win against you if they can't heal through your damage?

If its not possible for healers to win, how is the game balanced?

[Sandraudiga]

PVE and PVP cannot be balanced until player abilities affect players differently than mobs. You simply can't do it, balancing one will break the other in almost all cases. That being said, MMO champion forums have spell check, if what you write is underlined in red, right click it and it will give you the right spelling. A silly as it is, people will latch onto a simple spelling error and completely ignore any good points you make based on that one error.

[Iracor]

Bosses don't try to interrupt so you're able to turret heals. I can guarantee you that I heal for much less in pvp than I do in pve.

Your argument is invalid.

A Druid... don't get me started. You get the un-heroic picture.

Can't tell if trolling....have you ever tried fake swapping to force barkskin followed by a hard swap? They kinda just fall over..

[foxHeart]

If no dps has an issue killing an equally geared healer, what's the point of even having healers in arena? Teams would just rely on burst to get the job done because heals wouldn't be an obstacle to overcome. I don't particularly care to sit here and debate balance all day because it makes my head spin, but the game is not balanced around you being hopelessly kited from one end of WSG to the other by a resto druid that completely outgears you, it's balanced around the 3v3 and 5v5 brackets. A healer shouldn't be able to tank an entire team (which they can't unless your team is awful), but on the other hand they shouldn't be able to just get wrecked by a single dps either.

As a druid, when I kite it's to stay alive because (guess what!?) if I don't kite and let people sit on me, I am going to die. Period. We're designed to be annoying escape artists because we don't have the thoroughput/utility/shields/instants of other classes.

[Yotei]

PVE and PVP cannot be balanced until player abilities affect players differently than mobs. You simply can't do it, balancing one will break the other in almost all cases. That being said, MMO champion forums have spell check, if what you write is underlined in red, right click it and it will give you the right spelling. A silly as it is, people will latch onto a simple spelling error and completely ignore any good points you make based on that one error.

There is one way, unless there's a flaw I'm overlooking, if you can think of one feel free to say so.

Balance Characters for PvP. Now, balance Bosses around what those characters can put out and likewise with tanks and heals.

PvP = Characters, PvE = Bosses.. the way it should be. xD

[Bloodsail the Orc]

The lead balancer from Guild Wars said that splitting (some) skills between PvP and PvE was one of the best things that they did in regards to balancing the game on both fronts. I am a strong believer that doing this would be an excellent change for the game. Blizzard thinks that this will complicate the game to much. I disagree. When going into PvP, a spell changes to have <PVP> after the name of it, and has changes applied to it.

Example:
Fireball
1000 mana
Shoots a fireball that does 20,000 damage

**Enters Warsong Gulch*

Fireball <PVP>
1000 mana
Shoots a fireball that does 10,000 damage and dazes the target for 2 seconds

Another:
Sap:
60 energy
Requires Stealth
Saps the target for 1 minute

Sap <PVP>
60 energy
Requires Stealth
Saps the target for 1 minute, cannot be used on a target that is in combat

[Kynn]

The lead balancer from Guild Wars said that splitting (some) skills between PvP and PvE was one of the best things that they did in regards to balancing the game on both fronts. I am a strong believer that doing this would be an excellent change for the game. Blizzard thinks that this will complicate the game to much. I disagree. When going into PvP, a spell changes to have <PVP> after the name of it, and has changes applied to it.

Example:
Fireball
1000 mana
Shoots a fireball that does 20,000 damage

**Enters Warsong Gulch*

Fireball <PVP>
1000 mana
Shoots a fireball that does 10,000 damage and dazes the target for 2 seconds

Another:
Sap:
60 energy
Requires Stealth
Saps the target for 1 minute

Sap <PVP>
60 energy
Requires Stealth
Saps the target for 1 minute, cannot be used on a target that is in combat

I hope that's a typo, 1 minute cc for PvP lol.

And this is already in the game for Sap btw.

[Stanton Biston]

A Shaman hiding behind a box spamming HoTs should not win a battle. Agressive tactics should.

Someone takes advantage of cover mechanics in Call of Duty or Battlefield: Skill

Someone takes advantage of cover mechanics in WoW: (*&^*&^&^RR*&%^%*&#$&^% loser.

Does not compute.

[ramolegenda]

well, everyone say that dps shouldn't be able to kill healer 1V1 but no one mentions that if you put same geared dps against same geared healer, healer will eventually kill dps. that is also wrong. there should be at least 50-50 chance that dps can kill a healer. i am talking about melee dps. ranged ones might have a chance, it's been a while since i played pvp with ranged toon.

[Icpie]

So what, is this an RP reason or something? The aggressor should always reign over everyone else? I don't see any reason you should be able to take down a healer alone in arenas or any form of PvP because it's not balanced around 1v1.
Besides, even IF it's 1v1, the dps usually comes out on top because EVERY dps now has ways of regaining health in PvP while healer damage/pressure has been significantly reduced compared to wrath. It's clearly not a balance issue you're getting at here. (Disclaimer: You're not talking about arenas, and I never said they were balanced)

[Hyurukun]

The 25% healing debuff will fix most of this.

this, pretty much.

[PizzaSHARK]

The lead balancer from Guild Wars said that splitting (some) skills between PvP and PvE was one of the best things that they did in regards to balancing the game on both fronts. I am a strong believer that doing this would be an excellent change for the game. Blizzard thinks that this will complicate the game to much. I disagree. When going into PvP, a spell changes to have <PVP> after the name of it, and has changes applied to it.

Example:
Fireball
1000 mana
Shoots a fireball that does 20,000 damage

**Enters Warsong Gulch*

Fireball <PVP>
1000 mana
Shoots a fireball that does 10,000 damage and dazes the target for 2 seconds

Another:
Sap:
60 energy
Requires Stealth
Saps the target for 1 minute

Sap <PVP>
60 energy
Requires Stealth
Saps the target for 1 minute, cannot be used on a target that is in combat

No, you'd basically swap it around - you'd enter a dungeon or raid and it'd receive a <PVE> tag. Remember, players can encounter each other in the world and start fights, and while I wouldn't suggest balancing around world PvP, there's no reason people should be rolling around with PvE-stats skills. It's not like questing would be hard even if Blizzard arbitrarily reduced everyone's damage output by 30%, though people might actually have to group up for the group quests for once.

There is one way, unless there's a flaw I'm overlooking, if you can think of one feel free to say so.

Balance Characters for PvP. Now, balance Bosses around what those characters can put out and likewise with tanks and heals.

PvP = Characters, PvE = Bosses.. the way it should be. xD

This is the inferior, compromise option - things stay the same but PvP takes the focus as the baseline for all abilities and skills and PvE is built around those values.

You still have the same problem, though: what happens if a class is underperforming in PvE or overperforming in PvP? Regardless of which end needs tweaking, it will still cause problems for both ends. It might save them a little effort, but compared to simply splitting things right down the line? No way.

I hope that's a typo, 1 minute cc for PvP lol.

And this is already in the game for Sap btw.

That's the point. There is already precedent for exactly what we're asking here, and in every case the differences aren't even specified beyond "less effective against players."

And yet no one is confused. I never see Retardins going Y REPANTENCE ONLY 6 SECUNDS!? even though Repentance doesn't state exactly how long it lasts versus players. I understand Blizzard has designed the game so that anyone can play it (if you need examples of just how bad you can be and still play, look at almost every single Hunter in the 10-14 and 15-19 brackets), but I really think they're overestimating how confusing it'd be to the playerbase.

[Mozu]

A Shaman hiding behind a box spamming HoTs should not win a battle. Agressive tactics should.

I agree with the core of your point, but I'm just wondering why you think this. Aggressive tactics shouldn't always determine the winner. Intelligent play should decide the winner, whether it is the "coward" or the "hero".

[Chirri]

I dunno. This sounds a lot like the Warriors who start shrieking when they duel a Rogue, and the Rogue uses Stealth.

Healing is what Healers do. They don't DO much else. They're certainly not much of a threat to you when they're spamming a heal, they're just making your dmg on someone else less effective.

A ton of players find ways to take healers out, or outdmg the healing the healers can do. Perhaps you need to re-think your strat vs healers.

[drogoganor]

I've always found it cheap and dishonorable to run around/through a player so their casts will fail ("you must be facing the target").

Guess that's why I don't pvp much!

[PizzaSHARK]

I dunno. This sounds a lot like the Warriors who start shrieking when they duel a Rogue, and the Rogue uses Stealth.

Healing is what Healers do. They don't DO much else. They're certainly not much of a threat to you when they're spamming a heal, they're just making your dmg on someone else less effective.

A ton of players find ways to take healers out, or outdmg the healing the healers can do. Perhaps you need to re-think your strat vs healers.

My personal preference would be to remove pure healers from PvP entirely, and leave healing to be done only through self-heals or hybrids healing (who wouldn't be able to afford to heal for long) so that PvP is more fluid and interactive. But people usually label me a heretic when I start talking like that.