5.1 Rogue Changes

[huth]

I meant to get any changes in to give us more mobility before 5.1, which is Tuesday I believe, and I don't expect them to do anything over the weekend.

A lot of us were pretty hopeful to see some fixes this patch, but it looks like we're going to have to wait a little longer.

I don't remember seeing any indication of the patch being brought to live.

[shalnath]

I don't remember seeing any indication of the patch being brought to live.

For some reason I had it in my head that 5.1 was going live with the rest of the tier being unlocked. My mistake.

[Lemons]

Well that blows, every time I see my Sprint cooldown nearly up lately I think "that'll be already ready when 5.1 hits!" Too bad they put it back. Not really much to look forward to in this patch now other than the 1.5 min Blind.

[Mafic]

Wound will deal more damage...but yeah other than that and the 1.5 Blind hopefully more changes are on the horizon or else it will feel very different moving forward.

[Gylindril1]

Also, I like how a single target, undispellable, 8s, 1m cd CC (Blind) is not ok while a AoE, undispellable, 8s, 1m cd CC (Intimidating Shout) is perfectly fine and has been forever.

Dirty Tricks it becomes quite a bit more than that. It allows damage to continue to tick, and it lasts long enough to re-stealth.

[Viradiance]

Dirty Tricks it becomes quite a bit more than that. It allows damage to continue to tick, and it lasts long enough to re-stealth.

Oh, shit, forgot about our absolutely crippling 3k rupture ticks and 6k Deadly Poisons.

[Deleted]

Its obviously a joke. Aswell as the current problem with rogue's is just mobility, our damage is fine.
Aswell as complaining about damage would be a retarded thing to do.
Anywho I completely agree that they should make blind 1 min, and not 1.5.
Aswell as upping the CD on sprint not even a day after reducing it is just giving me a kick in the nats.
The only reason currently, I have not leveled my rogue is because of their horrendous state.
I will consider it if my gf is out of town though, see whats happening.

[Deleted]

Oh, shit, forgot about our absolutely crippling 3k rupture ticks and 6k Deadly Poisons.

Dirty Tricks is a bad joke. It's not a talent that improves our abilities, it's a talent that completes our abilities, which is ridiculous by design. Gouge is completely useless without it, and the value of Blind is severely diminished...

[Flaks]

Dirty Tricks is a bad joke. It's not a talent that improves our abilities, it's a talent that completes our abilities, which is ridiculous by design. Gouge is completely useless without it, and the value of Blind is severely diminished...

When I saw the rogue talents when they were first released that was my first impression too. Basically just "shouldn't that be baseline". Same thing with how they removed the talents that EVERY PvP rogue took to reduce cds on vanish, blind and clos. Vanish and clos better get a cd reduction too.

Also, replacing sprint entirely with burst of speed would be amazingness incarnate. That whole tier needs a reworking. Putting prep there with sprint v2.0 and the most "rogueish" spell in the game (shadowstep) made me cringe even as a warrior who hated getting shat on by rogues all of 4.3. So what I'm saying is that one of two things should happen: shadowstep baseline OR burst of speed baseline.

[Zafire]

Dirty Tricks is basically an extra glyph slot. That tier is mostly meh anyway.

[Deleted]

Dirty Tricks is basically an extra glyph slot. That tier is mostly meh anyway.

No, Dirty Tricks should be fucking baseline'd! It's the goddamn other half of Gouge and Blind, these abilities that are integral to our class, do not function without this talent.

Let's put this into perspective by doing the same thing with Hammer of Justice, the main Pally stun:
Hammer of Justice
Hurl a hammer at your target, breaking their nose in the process.
1 minute cooldown.

Level 75 talent...
Sledgehammer of the Law
Your Hammer of Justice is now twice as large as it was before, and now completely remodels the face of your enemy!
Oh, and it also stuns your target for 6 seconds...



It's fucking retarded; a talent slot shouldn't be wasted on Dirty Tricks...

[Deleted]

I just wish there was some more communication between the devs and players.
Maybe christmas will come early and they'll surprise us..ha who am I kidding?

We should just vote with our wallets, it's the only way they listen.

[Sturmbringe]

Its obviously a joke. Aswell as the current problem with rogue's is just mobility, our damage is fine.
Aswell as complaining about damage would be a retarded thing to do.
Anywho I completely agree that they should make blind 1 min, and not 1.5.
Aswell as upping the CD on sprint not even a day after reducing it is just giving me a kick in the nats.
The only reason currently, I have not leveled my rogue is because of their horrendous state.
I will consider it if my gf is out of town though, see whats happening.

Huh? Where did this guy come from? Is he playing MoP?

Rogue PvP damage as Subletly, supposedly the PvP spec, is not at all fine. It is PITIFUL. Even with the Sanguinary veins buff up and the regen effect from SnD, it is not possible to solo anything in PvP as Sub b/c the spec has got no burst to speak of and generally low damage output. Shadow Dance is quite useless, mostly b/c Sub is always energy staved in PvP.

About the only chance a Rogue has to kill someome in PvP is during the Vendetta+Shadow Blades phase as Assa or Adrenaline Rush phase as Combat. If the Rogue misses these windows of opportunity they have no chance of killing the opponent and should just quit the scene as the battle is going to be a loss.

The change to Wound Poison is laughable as well, b/c its damage output will still be so low again that nobody will use it.

---------- Post added 2012-10-31 at 09:53 AM ----------

I just wish there was some more communication between the devs and players.
Maybe christmas will come early and they'll surprise us..ha who am I kidding?

We should just vote with our wallets, it's the only way they listen.

I think that deleting the Sub spec altogether from our dual talent spec will work as well, b/c I understand that Blizzard has got a tool that checks and reports back to them the talent specs that Rogues are using. Maybe if we delete Sub and spec dual Assa or Combat/Assa this will start ringing some bells at Blizzard.

[Stede]

When I saw the rogue talents when they were first released that was my first impression too. Basically just "shouldn't that be baseline". Same thing with how they removed the talents that EVERY PvP rogue took to reduce cds on vanish, blind and clos. Vanish and clos better get a cd reduction too.

Also, replacing sprint entirely with burst of speed would be amazingness incarnate. That whole tier needs a reworking. Putting prep there with sprint v2.0 and the most "rogueish" spell in the game (shadowstep) made me cringe even as a warrior who hated getting shat on by rogues all of 4.3. So what I'm saying is that one of two things should happen: shadowstep baseline OR burst of speed baseline.

How about Prep baseline? Replace it on the talent tier with an actual mobility talent. That way we all get Prep and can choose our flavor of mobility.

[shalnath]

Updated OP:

Sprint now has a 45 sec cooldown, down from 60 sec.

Seems like they can't quite make up their minds. It's not just with rogues either, every class is going back and forth on their changes.

Oh and this:

Poisons should now be more responsive.
Revealing Strike should now be more responsive.

Yay, I guess.

[MuteTV]

Its obviously a joke. Aswell as the current problem with rogue's is just mobility, our damage is fine.
Aswell as complaining about damage would be a retarded thing to do.
Anywho I completely agree that they should make blind 1 min, and not 1.5.
Aswell as upping the CD on sprint not even a day after reducing it is just giving me a kick in the nats.
The only reason currently, I have not leveled my rogue is because of their horrendous state.
I will consider it if my gf is out of town though, see whats happening.

I love these dudes who act like they know a class because they're leveling one.

Granted we need more mobility, but it is a bit more complicated than that. Personally I think Rogues need a whole new resource system revamp. Just like Warriors received. I don't care what excuse Blizzard makes about gear progression; being energy starve simply leaves for disengaging combat, lack of class attention and lazy design. Which brings me to my next point.

Our damage is fine but most people are not disputing Rogue damage, but how damage is outputted. At the moment there is too much of a focus on poisons and auto attack. Also, every spec seems extremely similar. Implementations such as Glyph of Disguise shouldn't have been wasted on vanity bullshit that no one uses because there are more optimal choices and worked them into making the class more engaging. How about making us Disguise randomly while attacking, or giving an ability that steals your enemy's ability.

I am just throwing out random possibilities, but all-in-all we need more abilities and less auto damage. More procs, more control.

[Deleted]

Updated OP:

Seems like they can't quite make up their minds. It's not just with rogues either, every class is going back and forth on their changes.

Oh and this:

Poisons should now be more responsive.
Revealing Strike should now be more responsive.

Yay, I guess.

What does that even mean; "Poisons should now be more responsive"??

[Rotesbart]

Also, I like how a single target, undispellable, 8s, 1m cd CC (Blind) is not ok while a AoE, undispellable, 8s, 1m cd CC (Intimidating Shout) is perfectly fine and has been forever.

I suggest reading the patch notes. You will find that Intimidating Shout is going to the 1.5 minute CD also. And it was hardly a 1 min cd 'forever' since it wasn't 1 min cd until this expansion..

[shalnath]

What does that even mean; "Poisons should now be more responsive"??

I'm guessing it means they will appear on the target quicker when they proc, but who knows. Hopefully it fixes the PvP 4-piece set bonus, as it lags when applying crippling poison.

It also looks like the Sprint buff/nerf/rebuff/whatever got crossed out and is still a 60 second cooldown.

[Knuckle]

Things I'd like to see.

-Your enemies vision is blurred while in the smoke bomb, reducing their chance to hit by 30%. (Works on bosses, a raid cool down)
-After shroud of concealment fades, your raid does 10% increased damage for 15 seconds. (Raid cool down)
-Shadow Blades has a new spell effect, you become engulfed in shadows. (You look like chaos bane, the Shadowmourne proc)
-New killing spree glyph, You focus your killing spree and no longer move from your current location during its duration.
-The recuperate glyph grants you energetic recovery with recuperate instead of slice and dice, giving you 8 energy every 2 seconds.

-Versatility is baseline
-Blade Flurry takes Versatility's place in the talent tree

-Shadow Step is baseline
-Slime Bomb takes shadow steps place in the talent tree. Slime bomb- throw a vial of slime on the ground increases your movement speed by 30% and reducing all enemies movement speed by 30% while in the slime pool, 15 yard radius. Lasts 10 seconds. 1 min cd

-Preparation removed, all rogue cool downs that were previously effected have had their cool downs reduced by 1 min.
-Shadow charge takes preparations place in the talent tree. Shadow Charge- Wrap yourself in the shadows, movement speed is increased by 30% and removes any movement impairing effects and makes you immune to them during its duration. Afterward your body is unable to handle any shadow skills for 10 seconds. (You can't shadow step, shadow charge or use Shadow Blades). Lasts 5 seconds. Costs -25 energy

The intent of this ability is to allow us to stay on other melee without a huge loss in our damage

-Remove Paralytic poison
-New Skill, Tear Gas. Throw a vial of Tear gas, stunning all enemies in a 5 yard radius. Lasts 5 seconds 1 second cast. 1 min cooldown.

-The dot breaking portion of dirty tricks is baseline. The gouge glyph is now baked into Dirty Tricks.
-Stealth no longer breaks from spells with a radius of more than 10 yards, but you take 15% increased damage while stealthed.
-Shadow Walk is built into the night stalker talent
-Venomous wounds proc chance is increased to 100%, the damage is slightly nerfed to compensate.
-All our finishers and damage builders hit for 10% more, but our slice and dice is nerfed to balance out the damage.
-Spells now only have 1 cost, energy or combo points.
-Tricks of the Trade now lasts 10 seconds, but the damage bonus is reduced to 10%.
-Our energy regen is normalized and no longer effected by passive haste. (Still would be effected by blood lust, haste procs etc)
-Kick cost reduced to 10 energy
-Change subs mastery to increased damage with backstab and ambush

I'm sure not everyone would like the talent ideas I have but anything that would spice up rogue gameplay is welcome as far as I'm concerned.