[MW] 90k healing on Garalon....

[Coraulten]

As the title says did 90k healing on garalon Raidfinder no wonder our aoe heals are getting nurfed...





475 ilvl armory link

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...oramonk/simple

[jairash]

149k on hc

yes we need a nerf bro

[Deleted]

You actually do that much healing on other fights it's just it isn't being shown because it's overhealing, on garalon 99% of the time nobody is topped and you will always get a healing value for any uplift.

[Nootz]

yes we need a nerf bro

As much as I hate to say it, it's true

[Astraios]

149k on hc

yes we need a nerf bro

So because we're 10% OP on one fight [You haven't seen a competent holy paladin, have you?], which is a joke and unimportant in the first place, we deserve a nerf even though we lack strong raid CD's or tank CD's, lack any respectable tank healing (though only really disc priests and h pallies have that) and our only strength is blanket raid healing?

Right, that makes COMPLETE sense.
Oh, no, wait, no it doesn't.
Anyway I've carried my share of garalon LFR's with 100k HPS and above, but it's LFR. It doesn't matter. And frankly on the fights that matter, disc priests and rsham's are simply better to stack, with the token one or two monk(s) and holy paladin(s).
As far as 90k hps goes, pretty much every healer is capable of that.

Monks have a place in 25s, sure. But you only really ever want one. Few guilds bring more.

Is our potential throughput high?
Sure. But at the moment it's balanced out by a complete lack of smart heals and a complete lack of control of said un-intelligent healing, and virtually zero utility.
PS: Holy paladins can compete with monks for raw throughput, if they dedicate to "raid healing" like all monks AUTOMATICALLY do. The reason most don't, is A: it's a much different playstyle, and B: they're the gods of tank healing, so unless you are overflowing with Hpallies it makes more sense to have them tank heal as it trivializes that aspect of the fight like no other healer can hope to do.

It's pretty frustrating when I play with some amazing healers of every class and don't get me wrong I win a large portion of the time, but the gap is no where near as large as most players make it out to be. When the rest of the healers are strong, monks go from "OP" to "Good."

Yeah when we wipe my throughput numbers look insane. But whenever the rest of the healers are alive and the entire raid does it's job, my throughput is maybe "Great". Not insane, not amazing, not overpowered. Slightly above average, yes. But at the cost of everything we lack? It seems fair to me. At least until those things are fixed. (Which they aren't being fixed. So...yeah.)

PS: Before someone says "what do we lack":
Smart healing
Spot healing
tank healing
tank healing CD
raid healing CD (I mean, healing tide is really just flat OP here)
raid dmg reduc CD (aura mastery (but they lack "conventional" raid CD's so its fine I suppose) and then theres just disc priests...don't even get me started)
raid utility (stormlash, mana tide, hymn of hope, stampeding roar, bubbles, lay on hands, BoP, divine shield, mass dispel, symbiosis, BoSacc, disc priest absorbs, paladins trivializing tank healing and still raid healing at the same time, etc)

Theres a reason why "the best" guilds bring 1 monk to most fights. They have good throughput. But other healers have to be around to make up the lack of utility. Sure, sure, "top 20" guilds bring more...but the most I've ever seen is 2. Whereas my guild frequently brings a 3rd rsham because of their raid healing CD's.

[Deleted]

Gnorrior. I'm afraid I will have to disagree with 99% of your post. Just looking at world of logs Normal and Heroic shoots down most of what you have just said.

I think you are missing the point of nerfing Monk healing. It's simple they heal too much.

In fact a quick look at the healing rankings for raids you see whole pages of monks. Monks are the top raid healers out there at the minute according to all logs.

Monks have a place in 25s, sure. But you only really ever want one. Few guilds bring more.

Most fights require 5-7 healers and two Monks is very common according to logs.

http://www.worldoflogs.com/rankings/...an_Vaults/hps/

Top ten healers for Heroic Vaults over Six fights. 60 healers and Only 11 non monk.

Theres a reason why "the best" guilds bring 1 monk to most fights. They have good throughput. But other healers have to be around to make up the lack of utility. Sure, sure, "top 20" guilds bring more.

You contradict yourself here.

"the best guilds bring 1 to most fights

and then

Sure, "top 20" guilds bring more.

I could link log after log of guilds using two/three monks out of five/six healers.

Nobody likes nerfs to their own class even if they deep down know they are out healing or out dpsing others by a long way. Unfortunatley the nerf is needed at the minute in my opinion and according to healing logs.

[Deleted]

Same old discussion over and over again. The people who want nerfs point at logs for their arguement (rating healers by their HPS is very short sighted) and those that don't want nerfs outline the fact that monks are a one trick pony (they raid heal or they suck).

One thing about the logs is that it is incredibly easy to snipe heals as a monk, I was in LFR yesterday with a pretty decent healer group, then come Garalon and for lols I thought I would just see how much sniping I could do. I pushed out 95k HPS and forced all the other healers down to 30-35k HPS, does that make me a better healer? Ofcourse not.

You need to look at the bigger picture.

[jairash]

I agree with people that say we need nerf.
I agree with people that say that with the current nerf we will suck hard.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/it/forum/topic/5847637081

That's my deep analysis in italian for 25 men. Unfortunately my english is not good enough to write it on EU forums without losing every important aspect so that it can be considered by moderators.

I m ready to roll back to my priest

[Dorfie]

Monks getting nerfed to the ground baby. Jab jab uplift = high skill ceiling, jk class.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 01:02 PM ----------

PS: Before someone says "what do we lack":
Smart healing
Spot healing
tank healing
tank healing CD
raid healing CD (I mean, healing tide is really just flat OP here)
raid dmg reduc CD (aura mastery (but they lack "conventional" raid CD's so its fine I suppose) and then theres just disc priests...don't even get me started)
raid utility (stormlash, mana tide, hymn of hope, stampeding roar, bubbles, lay on hands, BoP, divine shield, mass dispel, symbiosis, BoSacc, disc priest absorbs, paladins trivializing tank healing and still raid healing at the same time, etc)

Smart healing: Healing 25 people simultaneously is pretty smart I think

Spot healing: Why not spot heal 25 people at once?

Tank healing/CD: Lol? Who tank heals these days? Don't they just heal themselves with WoG/Death Strike/Frenzied Rejuv

Raid CD/utility: Raid being full HP and never dying isn't good enough?

Jabjabuplift isn't enough to carry some players I guess

[jairash]

I understand haters, some of them are good healers that got sitted out by some tard jabjabbing or spinning around without a clue.
Unfortunately they gave only a couple of spell viable and that's why i do think we need some drastic change for the class.
With the actual nerf even if you are good you won't have anything good to bring to the raid.
That's just a switch "which class is the useless now?"
I hope for a change that balances every class

[Deleted]

Monks getting nerfed to the ground baby. Jab jab uplift = high skill ceiling, jk class.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 01:02 PM ----------



Smart healing: Healing 25 people simultaneously is pretty smart I think

Spot healing: Why not spot heal 25 people at once?

Tank healing/CD: Lol? Who tank heals these days? Don't they just heal themselves with WoG/Death Strike/Frenzied Rejuv

Raid CD/utility: Raid being full HP and never dying isn't good enough?

Jabjabuplift isn't enough to carry some players I guess

1/10 10char

Do not post if you have nothing to add to the conversation. - Malthanis

[Deleted]

Monks getting nerfed to the ground baby. Jab jab uplift = high skill ceiling, jk class.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 01:02 PM ----------



Smart healing: Healing 25 people simultaneously is pretty smart I think

Spot healing: Why not spot heal 25 people at once?

Tank healing/CD: Lol? Who tank heals these days? Don't they just heal themselves with WoG/Death Strike/Frenzied Rejuv

Raid CD/utility: Raid being full HP and never dying isn't good enough?

Jabjabuplift isn't enough to carry some players I guess

You clearly don't play a monk and have no real clue how a monk works, if you have something useful to say then say it, otherwise you just look like a clueless troll.

The thing about nerfing a class just because they top healing meters is that someone will always have to top meters, so do you just keep nerfing everyone all of the time or do you just pick one class to nerf each tier when WoL start fresh? Monk AoE throughput is very high and could do with a small amount of rebalancing, somewhere in the region of 10-15%, which would still leave monks on top, just not by quite so far. Why leave monks on top? Raid healing will always give the highest numbers and raid healing is all that a monk can do effectively right now.

In a straight up comparison shamans crap all over monks in versatility and raid utility.

The thing that makes monks look too strong is that all of our contributions to the raid can be shown clearly in logs where as other classes abilities (Aura Mastery, Barrier, Spirit Link etc) can't be easily quantified, at least not by a quick look at WoL.

I've said it before and i'll say it again, WoL is a tool to help evaluate healers if you know what your are looking at and use it in the correct context, looking at over all healing done or HPS snapshots from a kill is not an accurate reflection. If you want to top meters, go play a dps class, that's your job, as a healer you have a different role.

[land]

OP: yes, we're seriously good on that fight and others with constant aoe damage. Same for Stone Guards with jade (raid aoe damage) and it seems like we're op too for the last 2 bosses in HoF... But on fights where the damage isn't raid-wide (i.e. Will of Emp, mostly tank damage) etc we aren't that great really.

[Deleted]

OP: yes, we're seriously good on that fight and others with constant aoe damage. Same for Stone Guards with jade (raid aoe damage) and it seems like we're op too for the last 2 bosses in HoF... But on fights where the damage isn't raid-wide (i.e. Will of Emp, mostly tank damage) etc we aren't that great really.

Actually, will is constant aoe damage just like garalon. Unless you're talking about normal mode, which frankly, who cares, you can heal that even blinded.

[Deleted]

The thing about nerfing a class just because they top healing meters is that someone will always have to top meters

The reason for the nerf is not just because Monks are topping meters by a little they are topping meters so high other healers are being left out of raids. Sometimes these healers are better players but they just can't pump out the healing of a monk.

Monk hps is being brought down and is 100% justified weather you chose to ignore all the logs is up too you.

The argument that monks should top healing as they don't bring things other classes do is not a valid one imo and you should perhaps make a sugestion to Blizzard they give monks a raid type cooldown now that their healing is being brought in line with other healers.

[land]

Actually, will is constant aoe damage just like garalon. Unless you're talking about normal mode, which frankly, who cares, you can heal that even blinded.

Yes I'm talking about normal lol, maybe I should go poke my eyes and test it out.

[Deleted]

The reason for the nerf is not just because Monks are topping meters by a little they are topping meters so high other healers are being left out of raids. Sometimes these healers are better players but they just can't pump out the healing of a monk.

Monk hps is being brought down and is 100% justified weather you chose to ignore all the logs is up too you.

The argument that monks should top healing as they don't bring things other classes do is not a valid one imo and you should perhaps make a sugestion to Blizzard they give monks a raid type cooldown now that their healing is being brought in line with other healers.

I have been championing better utility for monks since beta. The devs don't listen. Which is why the nerf worries me.

Here is a questions for you though, assuming you agree that monks have very little utility/raid CD's why should they not be topping meters by an ammount that is equal to the average value of something like spirit link or aura mastery or barrier? If you want to see monks below other classes on all/most fights then what you are asking for is for monks to be underpowered, not just for them to be not overpowered.

I am quite happy to admit that monks could do with a ~10% nerf, which would leave them above others but by much less, but how is it reasonable to have the healer that can only raid heal and bring no utility be below other classes on the meters, you would literally have no reason to take them to a raid if that was the case.

[IxilaFA]

The reason for the nerf is not just because Monks are topping meters by a little they are topping meters so high other healers are being left out of raids. Sometimes these healers are better players but they just can't pump out the healing of a monk.

Monk hps is being brought down and is 100% justified weather you chose to ignore all the logs is up too you.

The argument that monks should top healing as they don't bring things other classes do is not a valid one imo and you should perhaps make a sugestion to Blizzard they give monks a raid type cooldown now that their healing is being brought in line with other healers.

No good raid or raid leader would leave Resto Shammies or Holy Pallies out of the raid, and even Druids are capable of keeping up. Priests have ridiculous versatility so even they're useful. If your raid leader is taking only Monks he is a complete moron and I would expect you will wipe on more fights where bursty single-target healing is needed.

Mistweavers bring no raid utility or healing CDs (my raid leader is constantly annoyed that I can't be put into a cooldown rotation because I don't have any). Our raid buff is provided by druids and pallies of all specs, two of the classes most brought to raid. Whether you want to believe tank healing still exists, it's still nice to have a bomb healer that can drop 200k heals during emergency situations. I guess what would be better to say is Monks have little single target burst healing, and the bit we do have will leave us OOM in 20 seconds. Our only tank CD is a 170k absorb that gets knocked off in one hit.

With the nerfs rolling out to Renewing Mist, Blizzard is essentially nerfing the only thing we're good at. Shamans faced the same thing in early Cataclysm, when they nerfed our AOE heals but didn't buff our single target heals. It wasn't until Mastery scaling was fixed that Shaman became competent healers. I fear the same thing will happen to Monks. Which is why I'm leveling my Holy Pally and will probably switch my Monk to tank.

[Luqt]

I have been championing better utility for monks since beta. The devs don't listen. Which is why the nerf worries me.

Here is a questions for you though, assuming you agree that monks have very little utility/raid CD's why should they not be topping meters by an ammount that is equal to the average value of something like spirit link or aura mastery or barrier? If you want to see monks below other classes on all/most fights then what you are asking for is for monks to be underpowered, not just for them to be not overpowered.

I am quite happy to admit that monks could do with a ~10% nerf, which would leave them above others but by much less, but how is it reasonable to have the healer that can only raid heal and bring no utility be below other classes on the meters, you would literally have no reason to take them to a raid if that was the case.

Valient, after all these pointless threads and after reading your comments I have come to the conclusion that you're one of the few users with a balanced, rational opinion and thus, you can have many internetz.

I'm playing a monk 25m healer and although I look upon the nerfs with a frown, I accept them because I recognize that monk healing is in fact, overtuned. Yes, our strength is really our ability to have so many heals occuring at a cheap mana cost so essentially raid blanketing. With these nerfs which aren't even THAT BAD, we'll still be the best at topping the raid off if you will.

The thing is, most healers think that all 3 roles in WoW instances are similar, "the more numbers you push, the better you (or the spec) is". Fortunately, this can only be held PARTLY true as a DPS. Being top on the meters is a DPS mentality. A healer's task is not to top meters but to effectively keep the raid alive and by effectively I mean being efficient with mana and simultaneously being responsive enough for any following ability. Yes this is said over and over again but many healers fail to understand this and instead expect healers of different specs with obvious differences to compete for a role which is limited by various factors. And if you like to look at WoL - hold on, this is gamebreaking - you can select the top 200 of a specific spec! If you want to compete / compare yourself to your spec, that's where you should look.

[Zeelot]

The excessive raid healing seems to be a compensation for the lack of raid-wide cooldowns/utility imo. Maybe they can make Revival good, because currently in my guild we hardly consider it a cooldown, and I sort of just use it whenever, although it feels like I only uplifted a couple times.

On a side note, I wish they would make life cocoon put 2 buffs on the target: 1 being the absorb, and the other being the increased periodic healing taken, so that we can actually benefit from both aspects of the cooldown, instead of it being destroyed from a single boss hit.