[GW2] Post Launch w/Colin Johanson - Bigger than expected

[Vlad Morbius]

More food for thought; the game was created with a massive amount of open world content, with events playing the biggest PVE role in their original questing and leveling structure, why would Anet do all that work over 5 years only to have its developers’ devalue this major portion of content to this degree?
The most obvious of answers has to be they had no choice and were told to do so for the ease of controlling the in game economy which was accomplished by mass banning bots (good) and by nerfing the open world content and pigeon holing people into fractal s(very bad), resulting in a much simpler way to control the flow of gold, rares, etc.

[Kelesti]

Those tiny stat increases to ascended sure do make or break the game, man... i feel so useless wearing only exotics!

10 haste rating in tier 10 heroic gear. 10 haste rating. Not a lot, but it added up, and was functionally a tier higher. But it's okay, because it's "only a little bit, and therefore not a gear grind" and of course the famous "you don't need those stats anyways, you can do without it."

Why does ArenaNet and all of its fans get to blast other games for this, when they go ahead and implement the exact same design? The fact that it's only a few pieces now, and spread out over the course of X months doesn't change that it is nothing but exceptionally hypocritical.

[Svifnymr]

Why does ArenaNet and all of its fans get to blast other games for this, when they go ahead and implement the exact same design? The fact that it's only a few pieces now, and spread out over the course of X months doesn't change that it is nothing but exceptionally hypocritical.

The gear treadmill is not "hey, there's new gear", IMO, it's requiring that gear in order to access the next level of content, then requiring the next level of contents gear in order to access the newer tier.

The Fractals may reward some higher power gear, but they don't require it to start. When content comes out that says "sorry, requires Ascended gear to enter this dungeon", then I'd agree. I was locked out of varying dungeon/raid finder options in WoW for not having a high enough ilvl.

It's also tiresome to constantly see the same arguements that it's okay for folks to bash GW2 on the basis that in the past, GW2 fanboi's have bashed other games. I saw the same stuff in the TOR forum, and it's just irksome to use as a basis. There are plenty of moderators in this thread, so were these people that trolled WoW forums not infracted/ suspended when they did it? Either way, it means less than nothing now, it's just forum goers grinding an axe, mostly against people that weren't even the ones that you're talking about.

[Kelesti]

The gear treadmill is not "hey, there's new gear", IMO, it's requiring that gear in order to access the next level of content, then requiring the next level of contents gear in order to access the newer tier

The Fractals may reward some higher power gear, but they don't require it to start. When content comes out that says "sorry, requires Ascended gear to enter this dungeon", then I'd agree. I was locked out of varying dungeon/raid finder options in WoW for not having a high enough ilvl.

But at the end of ICC, there was infact a hardcap of stats until the expansion launched (plus potentially two pieces off of Halion for each spec?). There was a tier implemented above max tier, that "content didn't need to unless you were already pushing extreme amounts" (Heroic Arthas at 10-15% comes to mind), which is comparable to deep tier Fractals, you don't "need" Ascended gear unless you're already pushing too hard. People were saying it's something that's "wrong with warcraft, always chasing gear" but yet, somehow, "it's not a lot so it doesn't make a difference" works here. I just... I don't get it. At all. Do you, personally, not see the hypocrisy in such a statement, doesn't matter if it's from a developer, a moderator, or a fan? I'm not asking if you think it's a big deal or not (there are games and times when I like gear chasing myself), just if you acknowledge that it does go both ways.

As far as the Ascended Gear required to enter future dungeons, they've already laid it out for you that it is a mechanic they're moving forward with. And not only are they moving forward with it, but they've explicitly said that to help people who don't have some now, they'll be implementing something along the lines of "complimentary ascended/legendary" gear. Badges of Justice/Valor Point gear didn't fix the problem of minimum iLvLs, it only ingrained them further. This system in and of itself really doesn't address the issue at all, only glosses over and letting it fester.

It's also tiresome to constantly see the same arguements that it's okay for folks to bash GW2 on the basis that in the past, GW2 fanboi's have bashed other games. I saw the same stuff in the TOR forum, and it's just irksome to use as a basis. There are plenty of moderators in this thread, so were these people that trolled WoW forums not infracted/ suspended when they did it? Either way, it means less than nothing now, it's just forum goers grinding an axe, mostly against people that weren't even the ones that you're talking about.

I can't speak for the General Discussion threads of WarCraft or Rift or TOR or anything else, because I usually go out of my way to avoid them. I'd like to say if/when people crossed lines, they were infracted for it. But there are lines that need to be crossed to do so. As far as handling that here in GW2 territory, it still happens, regardless of what side of Fencer's bed err.. the fence I'm on.

[Fencers]

The gear treadmill is not "hey, there's new gear", IMO, it's requiring that gear in order to access the next level of content, then requiring the next level of contents gear in order to access the newer tier.

Isn't that exactly what Fractals and Ascended gear were created for?

Ascended gear wouldn't have any function in the game at all if it wasn't part of a gearing treadmill. It's designed to be explicitly so.

There are plenty of moderators in this thread, so were these people that trolled WoW forums not infracted/ suspended when they did it?

Many users bring this up in more than one sub forum.

The answer to these assertions are the same: Mods can only moderate the forum(s) they are in charged of. For example, Rift forum moderator Azuri can't go in the Shaman subforums and slap folks with infractions. Endus can though. Because Endus mods the Shaman forums. Etc, etc.

Further, no mod makes decisions willy nilly without checks and balances. Posts which are reported are seen by ALL mods including the bosses of said mods. I can honestly say Bibi, Sunshine and other admins are not slackers. Nor are they hesitant to tell a mod, "Hey you're doing it wrong".

I know sometimes it can appear mods are biased from a user POV. But that's not really case- we're still individuals. As such we may all not agree on a judgement.

However, when you see Tommy Trollhard banned you can bet dollars to donuts Tommy's offense was egregious enough that all mods do agree it was warranted.

Having a negative POV of a game isn't against the rules. A lot of what people think is "trolling" or "game bashing" is just a matter of not liking the other guy's opinion.

[InfiniteRetro]

Any grinding that people thought WoW had died out YEARS ago. all the grind now is optional. there is some high level content (not that much) which may exclude you if you choose to ignore dungeons all together to get a higher item level. however, i recently decided to up my dungeon gear IL, so i did maybe 5 dungeons and already unlocked everything above my level before i hit the cap at 90. so, by using the ingame dungeon journal, and knowing what bosses would drop what i was able to get better gear (and transmog). this was no grind, at all. the grind associated with ascended already is a JOKE.

i love gw1, but it had tonnes of hidden optional grind. if you want your racial skills for the asura, dwarves, norn, ebon vanguard to be effective you NEEDED to grind out the rep. same with sunspear and lightbringer, same with kurzick and luxon. otherwise, having the skills was pointless because they were so low level they were ineffective.

in saying that, this grind i did like, because it IMPROVED my characters potential. didnt need a higher tier, it went sideways in the intelligent way. now WoW has its way of doing things, and thats how it is but some of these gw2 fanboys think Vanilla WoW still exists today. it doesnt.

---------- Post added 2012-12-08 at 12:02 PM ----------

Seriously, if the mods infracted/banned people for disagreeing with them or something, Fencers woulda shoved me in front of a bus ages ago.

been there done that, lots. well not sure if by fencers but i was getting infracted/banned because my gw2 opinion wasnt licking anet's butt. truly.

[willowe]

idk. "A whole xpac worth of content."

I see that as 5-10 new zones
5+ More Levels
new class(es) and/or race(s).
3+ new dungeons.
Slightly Closer to Asura World Domination.
Some new mini-game/system.
More sPvP Stuff like Maps
Even closer to Asura World Domination.
A new story arc.
Did I mention Asura World Domination?!


IDK, if it's 'actually' an Xpac worth of content, I'll patch it up and check it out. As it is, you could call any old patch an "Expansion Worth of Content......"

[sacrypheyes]

How else can you explain a post on their forums with 600 + comments and 20k + views questioning a change in the loot parameters forcing the player base into buying gems for real money to buy in game gold(...)

just what the hell is that about?
and again, why would you even need to buy IG gold for? exo items? precursor items? those who are willing to do so can just empty their wallet until it gets as hollow as their brains for all i care.

and here you were talking about sensationalism jsut a few posts ago... damn right.

[Tradewind]

So this boils down to 9 pages now of arguing over Colin's use of the term "expansion." It's still been 2, soon to be 3, not-insignificant content updates in a non-sub game in 4 months since launch. Call it whatever you want to call it, at least it's something.

[Fencers]

Was there any long term content added the Halloween October patch?

I don't really remember anything being added besides to annual games. I am looking at the wiki right now and almost all of the notes are bug fixes and minor corrections.

It might be that Sunshine Cove patch is the only significant update thus far in Guild Wars 2.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game...s/October_2012

[InfiniteRetro]

Was there any long term content added the Halloween October patch?

I don't really remember anything being added besides to annual games. I am looking at the wiki right now and almost all of the notes are bug fixes and minor corrections.

It might be that Sunshine Cove patch is the only significant update thus far in Guild Wars 2.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Game...s/October_2012

not sure if you still play gw1 but the faith people have in anet i think only resides then. an example of how good the old anet was, remember when they completely revamped the entire way the Dervish worked? or in recent times going back and regutting the Elementalist to make it a better profession? THAT was epic and showed how they could handle classes. atm, they're bumbling.

[Tradewind]

There's still things held over from then, the new cosmetic items, new forge recipes, new events, changes to achievements and karma etc, plus a "new" two week event for the holiday. It's not like a new raid was launched or w/e, but it was just a start and remains to be seen if it will just be recycled next year or if they will expand on it for Halloween 2013.

Lost Shores is probably the most significant so far yes, after just over 2 months since launch, new dungeon (or 10 mini dungeons however you want to look at it), new gear and so on and so forth. At the risk of a WoW comparison, in roughly that same time frame, they've done...Brawler's Guild and fucked it up for the most part.

The real test is if they can maintain that pace.

[Fencers]

There's still things held over from then, the new cosmetic items, new forge recipes, new events, changes to achievements and karma etc, plus a "new" two week event for the holiday.

Fair enough on new events. Although I thought the bulk of new DEs were with the karka patch. Could be I only noticed some of the new ones w/ the karka patch. Likely too busy trick or treating or mining candy corn to notice first time around.

I don't think adding new cosmetics, recipes and achievements is anything to brag about as "significant" though. That type of stuff is pretty routine or mundane. Other MMOs both sub and F2P add similar minor things such as those & typical fixes/updates all the time. Some like weekly.

The majority of the patch seems to be the annual Halloween event. Which is fine but like every MMO from FlyFF to Tera has holiday events with busy/casual content in tow. Wish some of them would stop sending me emails about them too. -_-

[Tradewind]

tbh my only long term mmo experience is WoW and GW2, with dabbles in EVE/LOTRO/AoC/SWTOR. So for most "other games" I have no frame of reference. But I think the idea some people have about anet just resting on their laurels is somewhat undeserving and for a game that doesn't require me to pay a monthly fee, I don't feel as if they owe me any more than what they've delivered thus far and if they keep up the pace with monthly updates and frequent larger updates, my sack is looking pretty full.

[Fencers]

I think the idea some people have about anet just resting on their laurels is somewhat undeserving

Yea, I agree with that for the most part.

The monthly fee part is kinda meaningless. There is more than one sub MMO in town and so many quality F2P MMOs that it hardly matters any more to say, "For the money...".

Not that I think GW2 is a bad value for money but certainly not like some gold crown of value either. F2P, Hybrid and other subscription games have all delivered since the dark days of 2008.

Yes, I do know you were speaking personally. I just wanted to address that in a more overarching fashion.

[Kiry]

Sounds to me like it's about perspective. Some are fine, some want more, some dont even know there was more. Like others, I liked the Oct event, not that fond of the Nov event. I'm fine with the value of the game that I have. I'm glad that they continue to add content in by any name they put it, I really dont care. Why? Because it's content, it's the new shiny on the block. It's give players something to do, and that in itself is value.

[Tradewind]

Yea, I agree with that for the most part.

The monthly fee part is kinda meaningless. There is more than one sub MMO in town and so many quality F2P MMOs that it hardly matters any more to say, "For the money...".

Not that I think GW2 is a bad value for money but certainly not like some gold crown of value either. F2P, Hybrid and other subscription games have all delivered since the dark days of 2008.

Yes, I do know you were speaking personally. I just wanted to address that in a more overarching fashion.

For me it's time. Working 45-50 regular hours a week, plus on call 24/7, add on other commitments and self imposed ones like WoW raiding :P If I had more time, truthfully I would probably only play EVE lol. So I tend to think of "for the money" often, as my "enjoyment to dollar" ratio becomes important.

[VibrantViolet]

Bahahaha don't even get me started on how poorly designed, mismanaged... frankly just one of the worst things I've ever seen out of ANet in 8 years... the whole Lost Shores thing was. It is literally case and point of everything that is wrong with this company now. It's like the Zaishen Tournament issue from GW1 on crack, now with bonus exploitation of players via microtran$actions.

So let's see... people who were unable to attend the event are still left out of Free Precursors For All Day, yet people who logged in for 2 minutes, hit 3 karka and said "fuck this" are getting chests like they participated fully. Someone in my guild got Dawn AND Dusk because of this on alts. My rage is only 20% jelly and 80% "what the fuck is wrong with ANet these days?"

It was just an example. Not everyone got a precurser from that event....I didn't. I actually liked the karka event, it was fun. Granted, I didn't DC or have any other issues.

[Sackman]

It was just an example. Not everyone got a precurser from that event....I didn't. I actually liked the karka event, it was fun. Granted, I didn't DC or have any other issues.

Can't say I "enjoyed" the event. I got bored so fast and continued because I had already put so much into it and wanted to find out what happened at the end. Legendary precursors was silly though, that was bound to cause a shit storm.

Regarding value for money - I haven't even 50% the game, and I am satisfied, and I am a frugal person who buys about 1 game a year. Expecting more, fine, stating that it's bad without more? Lunacy. There is so much in the game already that more than makes up for a shit event.

[Arbs]

not my fault. if i go to an mmo forum and post people seem to connect me immediately to youtube. thanks to the butthurtedness of the gw2 fanboys they made it so more and more people were exposed to my vids. kinda counter productive when they didnt want my apparent 'lies' to be spread.

Oh you mean the Reddit, I get what your saying now