Shadowpriest 5.1 -Why cant blizzard see all our current faults and flaws?

[Purpleisbetter]

I've very cool idea, wich is TOTALLY new.

Mind flay crits reduce the cooldown of bender/fiend. I swear its new and it adds a lot of synergies between crit, haste (ehy even powah infusion) mastery with its critted procs! (i actually never noticed if "ghosts tick" from mastery con crit. I guess so, damn MSBT and the wierd way i setted it up).

[Deleted]

- PI needs a buff, I like yvalles idea of adding 5% passive haste to it. Obviously numbers would be need to be tweaked but I really like the idea.

Still has the issue that it doesn't stack with hero/lust; I'd rather we got a straight up +% damage boost. More haste, while nice, is not really what we need.

[Minimoe]

Personally I feel that shadow priest shouldn't be doing as much dps as a lock or a mage. We are a hybrid class that can also heal. Mages and locks can't heal like we can. Why should we be able to do as much dps as a pure dps class? The entire point of a hybrid class like a priest or druid is that we are good a a lot of things but not great at one thing. In contrast a pure dps class can only dps. They should be higher dps. I know that it pisses people off to hear that but that's the way it is. If you are interested in doing a ton of dps then play a pure dps class and give up all of your utility that a priest gets that mages and locks don't get.

[Drye]

Still has the issue that it doesn't stack with hero/lust; I'd rather we got a straight up +% damage boost. More haste, while nice, is not really what we need.

While we have tof as a talent, that won't ever happen because it is just an on attack triggered +%dmg talent.

[Venaliter]

Just chance the Mindflay glyph to allow MF to be cast while moving.

They will never give us Mindflay while moving. They want spell dps classes to have horrible damage while moving. Full stop. Except mages, cause they are exempt from balance concerns. [sarcasm]

You can't give Shadow Priests a cooldown right now. It is a horrible suggestion to boost our overall damage. Giving us an Archangel type of CD would make us insanely overpowered in PvP.

This is true...and false. Right now, if you sit on a Shadowpriest, they are basically useless. Literally. Almost useless. On the other hand, if you *don't*, they have pretty uncounterable burst. The solution would be multipronged, like remove mind spikes extinquishing dots (to cast while sat on, at least something), and tweaks to mindflay.

Still has the issue that it doesn't stack with hero/lust; I'd rather we got a straight up +% damage boost. More haste, while nice, is not really what we need.

I suppose Shadowpriests could have a "Shadow Infusion" version of Power Infusion, for a DPS increase. It would share a CD with Power Infusion, but this may prove difficult to balance in PvP. It would be offset by Divine Insight being on the same tier.

Personally I feel that shadow priest shouldn't be doing as much dps as a lock or a mage. We are a hybrid class that can also heal. Mages and locks can't heal like we can. Why should we be able to do as much dps as a pure dps class?

This is a tricky argument. On one side If "Pure" Classes do more damage then Hybrids, you are penalized for every hybrid you bring that *isn't* healing. If Hybrids have on-par DPS, why play a pure class, because they are strictly limited to DPS?

[snaxattax]

our dots are the weakest out of all the dot classes. starting with 3 orbs is really not that big of a damage gain, and does nothing to fix the problem of a spriest getting some of the lowest benefit from lust. haste needs to have more impact on shadow orb generation, or we need to be able to substantially buff our mindflay damage (which scales very well with haste) during lust or *something*.

i mean, hell, we get more out of execute range than we do out of bloodlust.

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 05:22 PM ----------

These are lusted and procs at the start. Tonight it was doing from 850-1.5mil dmg. The 1.5mil was higher because of the lei's hope buff.

http://i.imgur.com/P1f4H.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/c3Faf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2olwG.jpg

that's shadowfiend, not mindbender.

You can't give Shadow Priests a cooldown right now. It is a horrible suggestion to boost our overall damage. Giving us an Archangel type of CD would make us insanely overpowered in PvP.

just give it a 'less effective vs players' and it's fine. we need to be able to stack more with lust than an extra 3 pet melees and a potion.

[Drye]

that's shadowfiend, not mindbender.

Mind bender did on average the same if not more per use. Ill post those numbers when I get home. But the main reason I was posting the numbers with int procs and lust was due to the complaint about sf/MB not scaling well.

[snaxattax]

mindbender does not out damage shadowfiend per use. mindbender does about 20% more overall damage, but split into 3 uses.

[Deleted]

This is true...and false. Right now, if you sit on a Shadowpriest, they are basically useless. Literally. Almost useless. On the other hand, if you *don't*, they have pretty uncounterable burst. The solution would be multipronged, like remove mind spikes extinquishing dots (to cast while sat on, at least something), and tweaks to mindflay.

So what you're arguing is whether Shadow Priests are OP or not in PvP right now?

[Venaliter]

So what you're arguing is whether Shadow Priests are OP or not in PvP right now?

Honestly, I think they are about right. In general though, damage is too high, and I think Base resilience needs to come up. an addition of a cooldown would probably tip the balance over the top.

[Aica]

Personally I feel that shadow priest shouldn't be doing as much dps as a lock or a mage. We are a hybrid class that can also heal. Mages and locks can't heal like we can. Why should we be able to do as much dps as a pure dps class? The entire point of a hybrid class like a priest or druid is that we are good a a lot of things but not great at one thing. In contrast a pure dps class can only dps. They should be higher dps. I know that it pisses people off to hear that but that's the way it is. If you are interested in doing a ton of dps then play a pure dps class and give up all of your utility that a priest gets that mages and locks don't get.

3 DPS specs = 3 possibilities to excel in a fight.
1 DPS spec = 1 possibility to excel in a fight.
2 Healing specs when you're main-specced DPS = mostly useless because all the healer gear has been going to actual healers, and you won't have nearly enough spirit to use your dps gear while healing.

---------- Post added 2012-12-13 at 04:51 PM ----------

our dots are the weakest out of all the dot classes.

As far as I can tell, we've got the best dot scaling bar single target increases.

[Venaliter]

As far as I can tell, we've got the best dot scaling bar single target increases.

VT and SW:P maybe, but I was under the impression DP did not scale well. Actually, I understand Shadow has the WORST scaling of the DPS classes, except as you noted in the case of multiple targets. Hopefully, that happens a lot, or we will be ToC'd again.

[Aica]

VT and SW:P maybe, but I was under the impression DP did not scale well.

I don't really consider DP a dot. Especially not for multi-dot purposes which is what snaxattax is comparing.

[snaxattax]

our dots don't exist in the same galaxy as warlock dots. also, people talking about spriest heals... any of the dps shaman spec can out heal us just in terms of cast heals/their VE (because they can stack it with their cooldowns), and warlock healing utility via healthstones is just in a league of its own. shaman also get a unique cooldown, which can be stacked with crit banner, which further underscores our lack of an on-demand burst cooldown as other classes are doing 300k+ during lust while we peak at half that (unless we can gain extra orbs with swd, or if lust is during an aoe phase).

as far as being able to change spec to heals? yeah, sure, but to play heals competitively in a 25 man you have to completely regem, and have solid trinkets (which are all dearly coveted by mainspec healers). could you imagine if bladelord tayyak had an enrage timer as tight as garajal's? a spriest would be a significant sandbag.

[mindp]

Personally I feel that shadow priest shouldn't be doing as much dps as a lock or a mage. We are a hybrid class that can also heal. Mages and locks can't heal like we can. Why should we be able to do as much dps as a pure dps class? The entire point of a hybrid class like a priest or druid is that we are good a a lot of things but not great at one thing. In contrast a pure dps class can only dps. They should be higher dps. I know that it pisses people off to hear that but that's the way it is. If you are interested in doing a ton of dps then play a pure dps class and give up all of your utility that a priest gets that mages and locks don't get.

^
Think this is a troll?

[Karei]

Personally I feel that shadow priest shouldn't be doing as much dps as a lock or a mage. We are a hybrid class that can also heal. Mages and locks can't heal like we can. Why should we be able to do as much dps as a pure dps class? The entire point of a hybrid class like a priest or druid is that we are good a a lot of things but not great at one thing. In contrast a pure dps class can only dps. They should be higher dps. I know that it pisses people off to hear that but that's the way it is. If you are interested in doing a ton of dps then play a pure dps class and give up all of your utility that a priest gets that mages and locks don't get.

Hybrid tax has been removed for a very long time now.
Keep your ridiculous comments to yourself please...

---------- Post added 2012-12-14 at 02:00 PM ----------

^
Think this is a troll?

Very much so, or just plain ignorance. Take your pick.

[Deleted]

2 Healing specs when you're main-specced DPS = mostly useless because all the healer gear has been going to actual healers, and you won't have nearly enough spirit to use your dps gear while healing.

Dno bout that, I'm 25man raiding as a SP mainspecc, and my Disc gear is superior over my Shadow as we get loads of Spirit gear dropping. So your argument is invalid, as the rate of getting your OS gear "good enough" is purely based on the luck/unluck with the gear dropping.

Personally I'm still loving the fact I can both heal and dps, or do both in a mediocre way (ie heal whilst dpsing). Utility <3

[Purpleisbetter]

Lol i'm laughing hard because i'm watching at my last night healing done recount as a warlock while there are some brainless chickens here that keeps invoking the hybrid tax (wich for casters is there, gg blizzard) because a s.priest can heal if he wants.

A dps, dedicated one told to suck it up and go discipline or holy.

Was just thinking about my health as a warlock, wich is around 450k. One of my Healthstone heals another one for 90k, (180k for me as a strong hot and a DK with vampiric blood). 25*90k = its like 2.25M heal right? Doing this twice or three time if the fight is very long. Lol.
Recount tho didn't accounted for my 450k shields with a minute of cooldown. My self heal was MUCH higher then 2 shadowpriests in raid considering the huge heals from mortal coil and the costant and quite strong ones from soul leech and grimoire of sacrifce (10% of my dps as heal + 2% of my maximum health every 5 seconds)

Where's the hybrid tax?

Where's the hybrid tax for this joke?

[Deleted]

Selfhealing is a factor of it's own. Having Healthstones is all good and fine, making people use them is another thing.
The hybrid fact is more in essense to the fact we can throw around PoMs while running, we have VE which is fairly strong as a raidhealer, depending on the fight we have either Halo (critting for 250k as an aoe heal on the raid) or Cascade, that can be used as a heal from a SP pov where needed. In addition to that we have a CD to save the tank, we can grip away people thus save them, not to mention speedshield and from a draenei pov Mana hymn.

Point being, its very nice you have your self heals, and healthstones, but the heals we provide doesnt require the other raidmember to do *anything* to gain that heal, clicking on a healthstone without it being called out seems to be a very difficult task for people in general in raids.

THERE is the hybrid tax.

[Washuwa]

your healers must bet terrible if you think your halo is going to heal for 250k everytime it lands in players, and its more amazing if you think you are going to be at max range everytime so halo can heal for 250k, the only true fight where a spriest is without a doubt the only class you can use is on wind lord to mass dispell the buff on adds, other than that shamans can outheal our Hybrid tax easily, so tell me how horrible has to be your dps if your casting prayer of mending everytime its in cd or using cascade in friendly targets instead of enemies, hybrid tax are in the past, shadowpriest as support class was gone with TBC, we are really behind is most of the fight, u can count with your hands fingers what fights we are "ok" or "amazing" , compare to Firelands or DS where we were top dps in most of the fights(except ultraxion)