The GC version that's currently on PTR is absolutely stupid whenever tanking a significant amount of mobs. But i was thinking, seeing how the version on PTR is the one where GC only procs off of avoidance it still felt like a good amount of procs while tanking a melee'ing boss. And with the crazy amount of haste we can get up to with 2 ret pieces (4pc might not be desirable enough in 10-man for everyone, although i like it) and a similar gearing philosophy in terms of offpieces, it's going to be a bit tough to balance it so we won't get a flat buff from additional avenger shields.
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...D0%B0/advanced
i think i can still get some more haste(swap wep.enchant for +200expertize, belt and helm gems)
Last edited by mmoc74c38174fc; 2013-02-13 at 04:05 PM.
I'm going to re-roll prot from holy on 5.2, but I feel I should start getting the gear now. I followed more or less closely the haste discussion with GC but since I haven't played prot since Ulduar, I got a bit lost. Anyway, from what I gathered, although I can't find it on the patch notes, there was going to be a change to Grand Crusader to make parry and dodge more desirable. Will this change the way you're advising people to gear, that is, will playing a mastery or haste build still be superior to one of parry and dodge? If a parry and dodge build does come ahead in 5.2, does it require hit and expertise hard-capping?
I came in here to ask a question, but looking at some of the posts I have a feeling I know the answer already. My question was if 'dps' pieces were better for prot than 'tank' pieces or if there is some threshold.
Your comments are duly noted and ignored.
I punch a hobo every time someone says 'it's not a rotation it's a priority list lol'.
This whole "dps piece" and "tank piece" needs to be forgotten about. Stick to the stat priority and then judge based on what stats are on the gear. As much as Firefly disagrees with me on this, I'd rather a Mastery/Dodge than a Mastery/Crit - so which you go for could be either but it's to do with what stats are on it there is no threshold, just get hit and exp capped then pile on the haste with mastery as the second best stat. If you could get all haste/mastery pieces you're rocking but as a temporary upgrade or something, a dodge(parry)/mastery or crit/mastery isn't going to hurt but be a benefit. There's no limit to pass other than get hit and exp cap and then you're away.
Think there is a high haste value when we no longer want haste but you won't be reaching it yet, so don't worry about it.
I just simply think that in a vast majority of the cases, a crit will benefit me and the raid group more than a dodge.
A crit is always useful, a dodge is very rarely useful.
For the current state of dodge/parry to work good.
The damage in-take per attack round needs to be very low compared to your HP, so that healers can have you wobbling around 70%~ life with mana effective heals.
Or you need to be attacked by a big number of attacks each round making it less RNG if you will get a dodge/parry that round or not.
The first is just simply false in every scenario in mop except perhaps LFR and 5HCs. The second is false on every fight except Wind-Lord maybe, it is borderline the number of adds required imo. Not enough adds on empress. Possibly Elegon adds but wouldn't even consider that.
Feel like the second combat table for avoidance really screwed them over, lost so much of the value right there.
Not to mention the insane DR atm.
Are you seriously saying crit will be a better stat than a dodge in 5.2? With the GC change?
Also, unless Blizzard decides to fix it it's possible to dodge some boss debuff abilites in the next tier.
I get that dodge isn't a good stat, but crit is right there with it at the bottom for all intents and purposes.
The second combat table screws over block, not avoidance. Crush, Crit, hit, dodge, parry, miss are on the first combat table. If "hit" is rolled, then there is the second roll for block.Feel like the second combat table for avoidance really screwed them over, lost so much of the value right there.
Have you guys considered your 5.2 trinket choices? I'm seriously disappointed by the tank trinket choices. I'll probably go and piss our Ret off and grab the Spark one, dunno what to get for the second slot yet.
Spark of Zandalar
Soul Barrier
I still hope the numbers haven't been tweaked on the stamina one yet cause that's barely a step up from the firelands one
Spark of Zandalar looks... amazing.
Block being screwed over also screws over avoidance since the previous expansions CTC capping severely increased the value of dodge and parry due artificially reducing the maximum hit taken.
Not argueing that block is being screwed over, just think that avoidance get screwed over even more (as mastery still gives SotR reduction, the block is not the only factor)
Baiscally, the old CTC table was a car where the block was the tires and the avoidance was engine.
Now they removed the tires from the car and put them on the ground seperately. The tires are useless now, but the car ain't going anywhere either even though the engine is still running.
@Trinkets Yeah, those trinkets looks amazing though I often do not spend to much time looking at gear before it is live. Still PTR, stuff changes
Will be fun to see if GID is still BiS trinket or not.
If the trinkets stays in current state
For dps purposes:
Spark of Zandalar
- Will probably be king, probably a go to trinket.
Fabled Feather of Ji-Kun
This trinket looks great, however I do not really like hit passive on trinket, as it kinda locks you to that trinket, or you need to reforge regem when swapping trinket. If survivability trinkets is not needed, this + the haste one seems like reasonable choices. Will maybe prefer this over the haste one so you do not have to worry about the hit cap when swapping trinkets
Gaze of the Twins
Could be a viable choice simply because the facts mentioned above, not having to worry about the hit/exp caps. Not sure how many procs we will get with it though.
Primordius' Talisman of Rage
Really like this one to be honest. Can see this one + the haste one being to go to trinkets. Depends a bit on the uptime on the proc.
So yeah, dps trinkets all boils down to how often do we swap trinkets? Haste+hit one looks like the two best however with a lot of trinket swaps I could opt out from the hit trinket or opt out from the haste trinket and keep the hit one as the permanent one. Which one is better of the other two depends on the uptime of the procs.
Survivability trinkets:
Ji-Kun's Rising Winds
Looks good on paper but think it will fall short because it has expertise for same reasons mentioned above. This trinket is by no means the best must have trinket on every fight, and having a situational trinket with expertise is kinda awkward. It should have had mastery instead.
Fortitude of the Zandalari
For sure the best survivability trinket. I used the battlemaster trinket a lot in this tier, mastery + hp on-use. It is awesome. This is just a buffed version. Really really strong survivability trinket.
Soul Barrier
Will be second/third choice for survivability. Will have some niche uses for heavy magic fights. Dunno if we have any lei-shi fights this tier so will wait and see.
Overall I expect Spark + Primordius/Gaze to be standard. Swapping in Fortitude when needed. Gotta say, a lot more interesting trinket choices this tier.
Spark + Ghost Iron Dragonling will also be a very powerful combo if we do not need trinket swaps that often. ( And do not need to piss melees of as much )
7(8) semi viable trinkets instead of 4(5).
---------- Post added 2013-02-14 at 04:57 PM ----------
Funny though that with current stat weights, ghost iron dragonling proably pulls ahead of the LFR version trinkets, and arguably ahead of the normal mode trinkets, kinda even there. Heroic mode trinkets ahead of ghost iron dragonling for sure though.
Last edited by mmoc4d8e5d065a; 2013-02-14 at 04:44 PM.
You're still valuing Dragonling over all current trinkets?
I subbed out of that pretty early on in the tier, and never looked back. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on why (not trying to be inflammatory, I just don't see how it can compare).
Armory is in the sig, though at this time I'm in ret gear. Currently using 2/2 Lei Shen's (489) and Liquid Courage for most content, and sitting at 7.7 hit and 15.0 expertise with ~19% haste IIRC. Given my gearset, I'm reforged out of hit everywhere possible (unless it's detrimental to do so, i.e. tier gloves I went Dodge -> exp and left hit alone) and still over cap a bit. I've got some haste/hit in blue sockets for bonuses, but by and large it's all forged out. Using double-stam on certain fights (Lei Shi, sometimes HC Empress), and on more farm stuff I swap in Vortex or Dragon's Blood.
I guess I just don't see what 600 Haste, X, and Y would give me that I couldn't get from other, better options. I could put in Haste, Mastery, and Exp, and maybe swap some red gems from Exp/Haste to Str/Haste? But at that point, I could just use Darkmist Vortex if I was after more DPS/threat/parry. I could also just as easily put in the Vial of Dragon's Blood (502, reforged for haste gives ~500ish) if I was after Mastery, no?
I get that not everyone has these options, and I'm certainly not trying to brag "hurr durr look at mah trinketz"; I'm just trying to qualify your assertion that GID remains a contender for top trinket this tier.
Current options (ranked in no particular order):
Lei Shens - Haste passive, str proc
Darkmist vortex - Str passive, haste proc
Jade Warlord/Liquid Courage - Stam passive, Mastery on-use
5.1 Rep tank - Dodge Passive, mastery on-use (I think)
Vial of Dragon's Blood - Mastery passive, dodge proc
Stuff of Nightmares - Mastery passive, dodge proc
Ghost Iron Dragon - 600x3 of unique secondary stats
At any rate, the sheer number of options provided from the new trinkets looks amazing. Sad that there are 20+ item loot tables, esp as a 10-man raider now, but one can hope for the best!
I'll definitely be going for the Spark as my #1 and for #2 I'll probably swap between Ji-kun's and Soul Barrier.