Easing up rotations, any help?

[madokbro]

Hi guys,
I left my hunter in 5.0, due to the rotation being too complex for me. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's richer and more fun this way, but the whole "too many keybinds" thing doesn't really work well for my hands. That's why I rolled an ele shammy anyway.

I kind of miss the hunter gameplay though, it was the most fun class to spend time on. I would like to try again. Could you help me with the following questions?

-Currently, what is the spec that uses the least binds/hand movement to reach optimal or near optimal capacity? Asking this as a normal raider, I never do heroics.
-Are there any addons that can ease up the rotation process significantly?
-http://www.noxxic.com/wow/pve/hunter/survival/dps-rotation-and-cooldowns - This is the current survival rotation for the most fights, if noxxic is right. Is it possible to pass up some extra talents like murder of the crows, to ease up the rotation, and still have near optimal performance in normal raids?

Thanks!

[Thiron]

Overall, all the specs have very close number of buttons. BM has 1-min BW, SV has 24-sec BA, MM has proc-and-CA Aimed Shot.
I'd say BM is the easiest spec rotation-wise, only because there aren't really any procs to watch.
As for letting the buttons out, not much luck there. All three of our button talents give about 4-6% of the dps. You will notice significant (~10-15%) drop in your dps if you don't use them at all. You could take Thrill of the Hunt as a level 60 talent though, it's one button less. But it actually brings extra RNG in your shots, so it's not that big of a change. For 75, aMoC is already best, and it's longest cooldown.

Anyway, you say the rotation is complex, but that's not true. Rotation is pretty simple for all specs, just 3-4 buttons - it's the number of "medium" cooldown buttons that's too high.

[Libertarian]

Overall, all the specs have very close number of buttons. BM has 1-min BW, SV has 24-sec BA, MM has proc-and-CA Aimed Shot.
I'd say BM is the easiest spec rotation-wise, only because there aren't really any procs to watch.
As for letting the buttons out, not much luck there. All three of our button talents give about 4-6% of the dps. You will notice significant (~10-15%) drop in your dps if you don't use them at all. You could take Thrill of the Hunt as a level 60 talent though, it's one button less. But it actually brings extra RNG in your shots, so it's not that big of a change. For 75, aMoC is already best, and it's longest cooldown.

Anyway, you say the rotation is complex, but that's not true. Rotation is pretty simple for all specs, just 3-4 buttons - it's the number of "medium" cooldown buttons that's too high.

Well let's take survival:

Maintain Serpent Sting
Explosive on cooldown
Explosive on procs
Black arrow on cooldown
Arcane shot filler
Cobra shot to refresh Serpent Sting
Kill shot under 20% twice. (Why is it twice ... really?)

Then you factor in:

Murder of Crows which requires 60 focus
Glaive toss for single target / Barrage for 3+ where things do not line up (turn your character to hit everything in a 120 degree cone or so)
Dire Beast / Fervor every 30s

Then you factor in:

Trinkets
Racial
Rapid fire
Stampede
Readiness

And then:

Traps
Master Call freeing
Silencing shot or binding arrow
Misdirect
Deterrence
Focus

And finally to top it off:

Pet management




So saying the "rotation" isn't complex is somewhat true. Just hit your buttons on cd, and keep up SrS. But in reality hunter overall is one of the most, if not most complex class. These are spells that someone can pretty much use in just one fight.

[Skygoneblue]

Yea, every spec is basically...

Serpent Sting
Main Nuke
Some other ability to micro-manage
Arcane Shot
Filler to regen focus

+ way too many fucking cooldowns

BM is probably simplest just because of the lack of Black Arrow and Steady Focus, which make Survival and Marks a little bit more complex to manage. But at the end of the day, the difference is marginal at best.

[Tehterokkar]

Yea, every spec is basically...

Serpent Sting
Main Nuke
Some other ability to micro-manage
Arcane Shot
Filler to regen focus

+ way too many fucking cooldowns

BM is probably simplest just because of the lack of Black Arrow and Steady Focus, which make Survival and Marks a little bit more complex to manage. But at the end of the day, the difference is marginal at best.

BM is the hardest to execute right, MM is the most complex in priority, SV has the most RNG.

[AmaMonsta]

Well to answer the OP if your looking to maximize dps with the least amount of keybinds possible BM or SV are the ways to go. However, I did a quick overlook comparing the rotations and the amount of keybinds needed to optimize dps, and resulted in BM being the winner just by accessibility standards.

The key to it is just "stacking" certain abilities based on their cd's using macros. The way i set it up you could effectively have about 6-10 buttons for the entirety of a fight and even less if you decide to split them up into action bars for "Phases" of a fight.

The general pool abilities(with cd) we will define are:
Stampede(5 min)
Rapid Fire(3min)
Dire Beast(30 sec)
Serpent Sting (only use once Refresh with cobra)
Bestial Wrath(1 min)
Rabid(2 min)
Kill Command(6 sec)
Readiness(5 min).
Glaive Toss(15 sec)
Kill Shot(6 sec)
Arcane Shot(instant)
Cobra Shot(instant 2 sec cast)
Murder of Crows(2 mins) or Lynx Rush(1.5 mins)

In addition to managing frenzy with focus fire.

For AoE Phases we will also need to include:
Multi-Shot
Explosive Trap

(Please feel free to point me out if im missing anything.)

Because many of these abilities share GCD's the creation of your macros will be the hardest part and their synergy with an addon such as spellflash Hunter.
What you will wont to use is /castsequence on abilities with the same multiples using spell flash(or you brain if you can keep track of them) to check which abilities are availabe on that macro.

So for example:
Glaive Toss, Murder of Crows, and Dire Beasthall have cooldown in multiples of 15 seconds and share a 1 second GCD. Note: that also these 3 abilities should be used as they come off cooldown. So why not macro them together??
It would look something like this (Excuse my sloppy notation):

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=3 Glaive Toss, Dire Beast, Murder of Crows

What this does is apply a single button to multiple cooldowns. The reason spellflash comes into play is due to the relative ease it will allow you to manage them.
So basically this will work like:
1. Glaive Toss is glowing! press it!
2. If still glowing press again! Dire Beast was now cast.
3. If still glowing cast 1 more time! Murder of Crows was cast!

Now dps rotations are now priorities to defer this method of dpsing. On average i believe you will miss out on a few cd's here an their just due primarily to the way fights work. But it should be fine for normals. You can apply this to any of your abilities and it is strongly suggested that you check their GCD's before you macro them over at WoWdb. Good luck hope it was helpful.

Note: Please feel free to point out/correct any mistakes made in my post. Questions/curiosities are always happily accepted!

[Shahad]

I'd recommend using macros to reduce the number of keybinds. For instance, macro Glaive Toss into Arcane Shot, with Bestial Wrath and Murder of Crows. Sure, you lose some theoretical DPS by not using your CDs perfectly, but as a Normal raider that wouldn't matter too much really. Mechanics are usually much more likely to make your raid wipe than your personal DPS. At the end of the day, it comes down to if you're willing to sacrifice a bit of theoretical damage to play the way you enjoy the game.

[Namarus]

Yea, every spec is basically...

Serpent Sting
Main Nuke
Some other ability to micro-manage
Arcane Shot
Filler to regen focus

+ way too many fucking cooldowns

BM is probably simplest just because of the lack of Black Arrow and Steady Focus, which make Survival and Marks a little bit more complex to manage. But at the end of the day, the difference is marginal at best.

How odd, don't BM use Focus Fire anymore? Yours is one of a few posts that fail to mention this ability.

[AmaMonsta]

I'd recommend using macros to reduce the number of keybinds. For instance, macro Glaive Toss into Arcane Shot, with Bestial Wrath and Murder of Crows. Sure, you lose some theoretical DPS by not using your CDs perfectly, but as a Normal raider that wouldn't matter too much really. Mechanics are usually much more likely to make your raid wipe than your personal DPS. At the end of the day, it comes down to if you're willing to sacrifice a bit of theoretical damage to play the way you enjoy the game.

I literally just posted about this and i think its the most effective method also. Too bad it was too long and needs to be reviewd. #SadLyfe

[Sylvari]

In terms of cobra shot (SV). Does anyone have a "rule" in terms of use. I understand it refreshes SS and you don't want to use cobra if a main cd is up. Say you have around 60 focus, no CDs up. Are you casting another Cobra or waiting 2 secs for the next cd. I find myself shooting them in pairs as long as I cap or have a cd?

What should the ratio be for arcane to cobra. Using Fervor. I understand nothing is exact but I don't think I'm using enough arcane.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=5521&e=6030

[Tehterokkar]

I'd recommend using macros to reduce the number of keybinds. For instance, macro Glaive Toss into Arcane Shot, with Bestial Wrath and Murder of Crows. Sure, you lose some theoretical DPS by not using your CDs perfectly, but as a Normal raider that wouldn't matter too much really. Mechanics are usually much more likely to make your raid wipe than your personal DPS. At the end of the day, it comes down to if you're willing to sacrifice a bit of theoretical damage to play the way you enjoy the game.

Can't macro AS and GT together.

[Shahad]

Can't macro AS and GT together.

What do you mean you can't macro them together?

[Skygoneblue]

How odd, don't BM use Focus Fire anymore? Yours is one of a few posts that fail to mention this ability.

Yep, Focus Fire would roughly be the "ability to micro-manage" as BM.

---------- Post added 2013-03-22 at 01:08 PM ----------

Can't macro AS and GT together.

Yes you can. I do, and it works just fine.

/castsequence Arcane Shot, Glaive Toss

[Tecnice]

I would recommend casting more arcanes and less of cobra, but I use TotH.

[Tehstool]

How odd, don't BM use Focus Fire anymore? Yours is one of a few posts that fail to mention this ability.

BM uses focus fire right after BW.

[Hayro1]

BM is probably simplest just because of the lack of Black Arrow and Steady Focus, which make Survival and Marks a little bit more complex to manage.

Spamming Explosive Shot back to back during LNL isn't complex, it's actually braindead easy.

[Namarus]

BM uses focus fire right after BW.

It was rhetorical.

[Shahad]

It was rhetorical.

Icy-veins still says: "The DPS difference between using Focus Fire wisely and not using it at all (i.e., having your pet have 5 stacks of Frenzy at all times) is practically non-existant."
lol

[Tehstool]

Icy-veins still says: "The DPS difference between using Focus Fire wisely and not using it at all (i.e., having your pet have 5 stacks of Frenzy at all times) is practically non-existant."
lol

Icy veins is wrong my friend. It's actually pretty significant with the changes to the RPPM things, the increase would be even greater than it is now.

[Skygoneblue]

Spamming Explosive Shot back to back during LNL isn't complex, it's actually braindead easy.

I didn't say spamming Lock and Load procs was complex. I said Black Arrow, which is a cooldown you have to watch (as opposed to Focus Fire which lights up when you need to press it - easier). Don't put words in my mouth.