I'm having trouble understanding liberal accusations of "racism"

[Grizzly Willy]

Going to have to explain which jobs, otherwise I'm just assuming that you're making a blanket statement that it's foolish for all jobs.

[Endus]

As long as you cover your privates it's not indecent exposure...

Go wear a mankini to an elementary school and see how long it is before someone speaks up, then.

And? Can't I use the other end of the spectrum for an argument?

When it biases the point being made? No. There's other reasons for potentially opposing burqas; you could make arguments of their use as a way to repress women, or that facial expressions are an integral part of inter-office communication. There's an argument to be made there, but there's really no argument against a hijab, unless you just hate Muslims for some reason.

I'm not questioning that for your home or in public, we where talking about in the work place.

You don't sign off your human rights when you take a job, dude. There's absolutely nothing about a hijab that could interfere with anyone's work, unless someone's bigoted against Muslims and enraged by the sight of someone being unapologetically Muslim.

[N-7]

As I said before, the better solution in my opinion is to simply not allow religious expression through cloths in the work place, it's neutral for everyone involved.

Why? If it isn't against the dress-code why is it a problem what someone wears?

Yes it would, current law isn't written with Sharia law taken in to consideration, thus allowing Sharia law would mean a lot of laws would need to be looked at to prevent loopholes. Much easier to just not allow it in the first place.

Care to give an example? I find it hard to believe. What is the difference between that and between when you ask a 3rd party to mediate between you and another person that you two approve of?

It doesn't have any legal authority over a person after all...

[Redblade]

Going to have to explain which jobs, otherwise I'm just assuming that you're making a blanket statement that it's foolish for all jobs.

Well as I clearly stated on two occasions that I think expression of religion in the workplace shouldn't be accepted I clearly think it's foolish for all jobs. But to give an obvious example, any customer relations type job.

---------- Post added 2013-05-31 at 03:34 AM ----------

Why? If it isn't against the dress-code why is it a problem what someone wears?

Because religion is supposedly ok to use as an excuse to wear things against the dress code...

Care to give an example? I find it hard to believe. What is the difference between that and between when you ask a 3rd party to mediate between you and another person that you two approve of?

It doesn't have any legal authority over a person after all...

I'm not going through that effort for a discussion here, I'm sure you can figure it out if it's that important to you and you have the time to invest.

[Endus]

Well as I clearly stated on two occasions that I think expression of religion in the workplace shouldn't be accepted I clearly think it's foolish for all jobs. But to give an obvious example, any customer relations type job.

The only reason that could be an issue is if you have customers who are bigoted against Muslims. You don't not hire black people because you're worried about customers who hate black people, do you?

---------- Post added 2013-05-30 at 11:37 PM ----------

Because religion is supposedly ok to use as an excuse to wear things against the dress code...

The only reason to ban a hijab under the dress code is if you like oppressing your employee's human rights.

[Redblade]

The only reason that could be an issue is if you have customers who are bigoted against Muslims. You don't not hire black people because you're worried about customers who hate black people, do you?

I don't even know what to say...if you can't see why it would be an issue for customer service or sales job there isn't much to discuss. I'll give you one more just for good measure, a factory job where loose garments can't be worn due to safety risks, religion trump that as well?

[Anonymitylol]

I believe immigrants should have to understand American history and the United States Constitution, in order to become citizens.

Before holding immigrants to that standard, why don't you hold American Citizens to that standard?

[LilSaihah]

You don't sign off your human rights when you take a job, dude. There's absolutely nothing about a hijab that could interfere with anyone's work, unless someone's bigoted against Muslims and enraged by the sight of someone being unapologetically Muslim.

What if you're a hat model? Are you allowed to wear a hat on top of your hijab?

On a more serious note, it could arguably present a safety risk if you're working with heavy machinery, but I doubt OWHS concerns are really that big of an issue considering the typical employment a muslim women might find. Unless people start wearing a hijab as a fashion piece rather than a religious one, which would be interesting.

[Endus]

I don't even know what to say...if you can't see why it would be an issue for customer service or sales job there isn't much to discuss. I'll give you one more just for good measure, a factory job where loose garments can't be worn due to safety risks, religion trump that as well?

I'm asking you for one reason why a hijab is against the dress code. Just one.

It isn't "loose garments", since it can be tucked up tightly. There's no impact on customer service positions, assuming your customers aren't bigots.

Do you even know what a hijab is?

[Redblade]

I'm asking you for one reason why a hijab is against the dress code. Just one.

It isn't "loose garments", since it can be tucked up tightly. There's no impact on customer service positions, assuming your customers aren't bigots.

Do you even know what a hijab is?

Well I was thinking about the burqa still, my bad. The hijab is fair enough I suppose, although in the case of dress code I simply don't think religion should trump it, but then again as I said we're really not big on religion here so I'm assuming it's a very different mindset.

[Grizzly Willy]

I could understand a burqa not being allowed in factory settings where loose clothing has the risk of getting caught. That's a basic health concern. I disagree, however, with it being "foolish" in every professional setting, even more so the hijab. Why a hijab would be an issue is beyond me.

[N-7]

I'm not going through that effort for a discussion here, I'm sure you can figure it out if it's that important to you and you have the time to invest.

If you don't want to support your arguments I won't bother replying and no it isn't important to me how Sweden treats it is immigrants (if it was the UK it would be another matter).

[Cybran]

You don't sign off your human rights when you take a job, dude. There's absolutely nothing about a hijab that could interfere with anyone's work, unless someone's bigoted against Muslims and enraged by the sight of someone being unapologetically Muslim.

Way to ignore the point. Again.

The Hijab is a symbol of the role of women in muslim society. They are told "You have no control over your life and body, you belong to you husband only, men see you as a sexual object and if you want to protect your self and dignity you need to cover your body from head to toe"

Such a culture has no place in the Civilized world. Still, even if you ignore the that, the hijab is a serious safety concern.



The video shows how taliban in full burkas were able to conceal weapons and explosives and carry out a terrorists attack on the US ambassy.

Last week a "black widow" in Degestan killed 2 police officers in a suicide bombing. The bomb was hidden under her Burka.

A few weeks ago a woman was able to abduct child from a kindergarden, simply because she was wearing a hijab.

There are many many many issues with this clothing. Trying to pass it by as a innocent cultural trait doesn't work.

[Wells]

The Hijab is a symbol of the role of women in muslim society. They are told "You have no control over your life and body, you belong to you husband only, men see you as a sexual object and if you want to protect your self and dignity you need to cover your body from head to toe"

Well that's not patriarchal or anything.

Such a culture has no place in the Civilized world. Still, even if you ignore the that, the hijab is serious safety concern.

The video shows how taliban in full burkas were able to conceal weapons and explosives and carry out a terrorists attack on the US ambassy.

wat

[N-7]

There are many many many issues with this clothing. Trying to pass it by as a innocent cultural trait doesn't work.

Hoodies work pretty the same as Hijabs I don't see you up in the arms against those and none was arguing for burka aside from personal use when the person wants to. After all, I believe that a person should be able to wear anything in public or home.

[Cybran]

Well that's not patriarchal or anything.

I know you think that free contaceptives (only for women and paid for by the tax payers) and quotas are more important, but I don't. Just drop it.

wat

The hijab isn't outlawed in Europe. The Burka is outlawed as a safety concern in a few countries, this is why I brough that up. They are both demeaning.

[N-7]

wat

He cannot differentiate between the two apparently.

[THE Bigzoman]

I know you think that free contaceptives (paid for by the tax payers) and quotas are more important, but I don't. Just drop it.


The hijab isn't outlawed in Europe. The Burka is outlawed as a safety concern in a few countries, this is why I brough that up. They are both demeaning.

Some people even see it is apologetic for rape. Although I wouldn't take it that far.

[Wells]

I know you think that free contaceptives (paid for by the tax payers) and quotas are more important, but I don't. Just drop it.

Carry on telling women what they should wear and pretending that's not what's sexist.

[N-7]

The hijab isn't outlawed in Europe. The Burka is outlawed as a safety concern in a few countries, this is why I brough that up. They are both demeaning.

So you want to protect these poor women from themselves? Am I right?

Also to quote you "hijab is serious safety concern." lol

EDIT: Also thanks for the new sign.