[Megathread] DotA 2

[Charge me Doctor]

Except the hardlane isn't even the most pressing problem. When people start to group up and all your Prophet has is a Midas and some gold in the bank, the enemy team can easily make up for any gold difference your Midas made by getting towers and now the enemy team has more gold because poor Mirana got nothing.


Situational, yes. Depends on set-up, why? All Sprout really depends on is that the enemy doesn't have tangoes or another way to escape. (Magic immune can still be hit if you're mlgnoscope360 enough and Sprout is actually pretty good against moveveryfast heroes) Prophet also has what is basically a 250 damage nuke. That hits 2 people.


Except TP scrolls don't guarantee you'll defend a tower, it doesn't even guarantee you'll make the enemy team even flinch.

Honestly, Mirana don't need anything except levels to be useful. Defending towers must be #1 on the list "what to learn before playing dota".

Sprout can hurt your gank if you use it on ranged hero and you zone out your melees (slardar, brewmaster, axe) and they can't do anything while enemy escapes because of tango-ed tree.

Usually in pubs TP scroll gound effect will ether make enemy disengage or land nuke/stun combo on you as you arrive to defend tower, so, kinda, yes...

[Deleted]

Honestly, Mirana don't need anything except levels to be useful. Defending towers must be #1 on the list "what to learn before playing dota".

How are you going to defend a tower against a foe that overwhelms you?

Sprout can hurt your gank if you use it on ranged hero and you zone out your melees (slardar, brewmaster, axe) and they can't do anything while enemy escapes because of tango-ed tree.

That's why you:
1: Check for tangoes.
2: Sprout between CC cooldowns.

Usually in pubs TP scroll gound effect will ether make enemy disengage

Why would they disengage when they're still clearly superior?

or land nuke/stun combo on you as you arrive to defend tower

Uhh...what? That's pretty much the definition of "not even flinch"

[Charge me Doctor]

How are you going to defend a tower against a foe that overwhelms you?


That's why you:
1: Check for tangoes.
2: Sprout between CC cooldowns.

Why would they disengage when they're still clearly superior?

Uhh...what? That's pretty much the definition of "not even flinch"

Well, that's pretty obvious, by TPing in and zoning enemy away. If they push in all 5 (which never happened to me before at least 20 minute), you have two free lanes to push by furion and w/e you have in team.

And in pubs, everyone buys tangoes, and those making furion ganks useless (in theory, usually people forget to use tango when ganked by furion).

Again, at that minute when furion is still farming for his desolator, you won't see much 5v4 action. Even if they all-in by pushing one lane, furion should TP in and help you defend it. Again everything dumbs down to furion being too stubborn to quit farming and start helping team before getting rapier.

Yes, because that's what happens when you TP into a fray. And too many people don't know what it means

[Deleted]

Well, that's pretty obvious, by TPing in and zoning enemy away. If they push in all 5 (which never happened to me before at least 20 minute), you have two free lanes to push by furion and w/e you have in team.

Except all Furion has by now is his Midas and the enemy can easily clear the tower and TP down or get a pickoff on the 40-sec CD Teleport Furion.

And in pubs, everyone buys tangoes, and those making furion ganks useless

Even if Sprout does literally nothing, Furion still provides rightclick damage, something which doesn't vary all too much during the earlygame. Beyond some borderline examples like Lesh, most of the damage people deal early is rightclicks and Furion can effectively increase that output by 50%

Again, at that minute when furion is still farming for his desolator, you won't see much 5v4 action. Even if they all-in by pushing one lane, furion should TP in and help you defend it. Again everything dumbs down to furion being too stubborn to quit farming and start helping team before getting rapier.

But if your Furion does nothing besides farm farm farm and make you 4v5, why on earth would you pick Furion? There are far better carry junglers than him in the game and splitpush isn't something he's that much better than anyone else at until fairly late into the game.

[Coffer]

I was going to ask which 'unconventional' supports would be worth giving a try, but if SD's no-swap nonsense taught me anything, it's to completely avoid doing that.

[Longview]

I was going to ask which 'unconventional' supports would be worth giving a try, but if SD's no-swap nonsense taught me anything, it's to completely avoid doing that.

the things i learn from this thread though

[Lysah]

Weaver is depending on shuckuchi way over too much, and I think that is factored in when balancing this hero.
I've ruined weaver's farm and laning more than once with early Sentry wards.

I've never seen a Weaver denied farm at my MMR. You bring sentries and try to zone him, he just waits two minutes and then kills you. With solo experience he will vastly overpower any support by 5 minutes, sentries or not, and you can't really stop people from getting experience in a lane without a seriously heavy tri. Let's not pretend that even pulling two heroes to stop Weaver isn't already a win for his team without pulling three heroes to stop him.

So first you describe two different playstyles for Furion to explain difference in skill between players and then when you come to heroes like Void and Storm you instead explain what they do in fights? You know what Furion does in fights? Right-click.

Are you just arguing to argue? I know you're good enough to understand that 90% of the skill involved in carrying is timing and positioning - two concepts that heroes like storm or void completely IGNORE.

I think you're Doom'ing wrong if he attacks that slow...haha

I just hate how slow his jungle is, even now when he can eat a boss creep at :30.

[Longview]

Are you just arguing to argue? I know you're good enough to understand that 90% of the skill involved in carrying is timing and positioning - two concepts that heroes like storm or void completely IGNORE.

i dont know ive seen some shitty ass void players

embarrassing

[Lysah]

i dont know ive seen some shitty ass void players

embarrassing

I can already tell you what the problem is - you aren't getting into character. You have to BE the Void. Every time you play that hero with your face on you are just asking to lose.

[Morally Grey Storm]

i dont know ive seen some shitty ass void players

embarrassing

instead of a thousand words:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3P1WbC_F-E


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKv5gQgtGys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Nbl1q4TOis


incase you wonder, the song played through these videos is called "Golden Domes" in Russian

[Deleted]

Are you just arguing to argue? I know you're good enough to understand that 90% of the skill involved in carrying is timing and positioning - two concepts that heroes like storm or void completely IGNORE.

I just find it hard to not respond to such over exaggerated and ridiculous statements.

Storm in team fights is all about timing and not all Void players use Chronosphere the same. Have you heard of Loda sphere?

Timing and positioning is exactly the things that are vital on Void and Storm. A bad playing Faceless could jump in and get instantly lifted by a good Rubick and die or something. A good one would probably stay back, avoid heroes that can pick him off and jump in when he can land a chrono. And there is more to Void than just team fight.

Void gets easily outfarmed by harder carries such as AM, Alchemist, Spectre and such. Therefore, your decision making on when to farm, when you can fight and win is crucial. As a Void player there are also many more options in temrs of items that will dictate your play style. You can try to go BF and farm. You can go Agahnim's or whatever Burning did. You can go Mael MoM to fight etc. It's much more straight forward on heroes like AM. These are just examples. I'm not saying Void is the most difficult carry to play or anything but saying he is as easy as just jumping in and placing an ultimate and win fight is ridiculous.

If you wanna compare you can't just compare two completely different things. A Storm player's ability to gank and put pressure can be seen as same as a Furion player's, which you said differentiated two players.

[Hermanni]

Because It's pub.
Don't you get it?
In a pub, the most efficient way to play ANY team-oriented hero iis to play like a selfish douchebag.
You may feel bad about it, but you will fill worse when your aspiring hopes and wishes for a competent team play will be stomped into dirt.
and they will.
in 90% of times.

Team oriented? Jungle Furion? And what does it being a pub have anything to do with it? Even if it was the most efficient way to play, surely winning isn't so important that you turn every game into farming creeps for 40 minutes to achieve that, so that you don't even need to go near enemy players in the entire game and ride your team to victory?

I don't need to feel bad about anything, I just don't understand why someone would pick an inefficient jungler that cripples their team completely, play completely passively and then grab a victory that belongs to their teammates. It's a pub, go test your meddle against your enemies instead of hiding behind your team for the first 20 minutes.

[Lysah]

I just find it hard to not respond to such over exaggerated and ridiculous statements.

So, that's a "yes," then? Good to know.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Are you just arguing to argue? I know you're good enough to understand that 90% of the skill involved in carrying is timing and positioning - two concepts that heroes like storm or void completely IGNORE.

Well I could say once Crix/Shaker/Tide/Magnus buy Dagger, they start to ignore positioning just as completely.
Does it make them faceroll or rage-worthy ?))

[Lysah]

Well I could say once Crix/Shaker/Tide/Magnus buy Dagger, they start to ignore positioning just as completely.
Does it make them faceroll or rage-worthy ?))

They don't ignore timing whatsoever, though. You blink into enemy team and land that perfect 5 man black hole - GLORIOUS! Too bad your team is still 2500 units away and now you not only wasted your ult but you're dead.

Void doesn't need allies, he doesn't need help, he doesn't need a brain. As long as he hits one person with Chrono he can pop BKB and kill that person and now the game is 4v5. Chrono is also a ridiculously short cooldown for how powerful it is, which means that even if you manage to force it out of him at your base and kill him, by the time you push to his base he's respawned and is ready to use it again.

Storm is just annoying because he's like Furion in counter ganking, that is, if Furion's teleport also did 1000 damage in an AoE where he landed and sprout was a legitimate 3 second stun instead of just trees. Also, if teleport was instant cast and had no cooldown and made you immune for a while while you used it but still allowed auto attacks and item usage during.

[Longview]

Storm is just annoying because he's like Furion in counter ganking, that is, if Furion's teleport also did 1000 damage in an AoE where he landed and sprout was a legitimate 3 second stun instead of just trees. Also, if teleport was instant cast and had no cooldown and made you immune for a while while you used it but still allowed auto attacks and item usage during.

hm

its like im really reading a pizzashark post

[Lysah]

hm

its like im really reading a pizzashark post

I forgot to mention that he also basically has CM's frost nova every time he auto attacks.

[Hermanni]

And there is more to Void than just team fight.

Aye, luckily my RNG is good enough to be proficient with Skilltrack and Bash even if I can't land a Chrono.

[Deleted]

So, that's a "yes," then? Good to know.

Sad part is you probably still don't realize how ridiculous your statements were.

[Lysah]

Sad part is you probably still don't realize how ridiculous your statements were.

Forgive me, master, I am unworthy of your knowledge.