Destro Buff 5.4 (Rain of fire Compensation)

[Deleted]

The one thing people seem to be very willing to accept is a buff to immolate which is nice because to me it is definetly the easiest place to start, i hope blizzard agree.

Well that would need to be an enormous buff...

[Deleted]

Note i said 'Start' i do think the co-efficient of our spells are going to have to rise aswell, but i think Immolate is the best place to put ember regen becasue it kinda counters the Rain of fire range nerf for Aoe (with MF).

The problem with our Aoe without MF is that if we run out of embers during it we are literally fucked especially as Rain of fire isint going to be generating anywhere near aswell anymore so i like buffing immolate for that job, im thinking 1 ember on tick and 2 on crit.

[Deleted]

Yeah there is definitely still a problem with our spell coefficients, despite the 5.2 buff. The spec has scaled sooo badly between start and end of T15 compared to other specs...

[Brusalk]

Yeah there is definitely still a problem with our spell coefficients, despite the 5.2 buff. The spec has scaled sooo badly between start and end of T15 compared to other specs...

It's only going to get worse.

I'm about 75% sure that the amplification trinket will help a TON for Destro as compared to most other specs, but before we get it we'll be really far behind and only fall further.

The hard part is that there is no real way to buff Destruction because there's so few spells to change. That said, if they're dead set on nerfing RoF (Pretty sure they are) then they'll have to buff the crap out of our other abilities to compensate, not the least of which being Chaos Bolt. I can already hear the tears from other classes when Destro gets >15% damage buffs on most of our spells.

(Grats on 1500 posts btw)

[Deleted]

It's only going to get worse.

I'm about 75% sure that the amplification trinket will help a TON for Destro as compared to most other specs, but before we get it we'll be really far behind and only fall further.

The hard part is that there is no real way to buff Destruction because there's so few spells to change. That said, if they're dead set on nerfing RoF (Pretty sure they are) then they'll have to buff the crap out of our other abilities to compensate, not the least of which being Chaos Bolt. I can already hear the tears from other classes when Destro gets >15% damage buffs on most of our spells.

(Grats on 1500 posts btw)

Woot ! (are those numbers even real, I don't remember writing so many posts )

This trinket does seem very good for Destro, but I used to think the same about some T15 trinkets and they eventually were better for the DoTs specs (yes UVLS, I'm looking at you right now).

Destro would need those buffs but as you said, the buffs required would be "shocking" for the other classes, especially for CB/SB. But if they nerf the embers' generation rate through RoF, it would seem logical to buff the embers' efficiency.

[Deleted]

It's only going to get worse.

I'm about 75% sure that the amplification trinket will help a TON for Destro as compared to most other specs, but before we get it we'll be really far behind and only fall further.

The hard part is that there is no real way to buff Destruction because there's so few spells to change. That said, if they're dead set on nerfing RoF (Pretty sure they are) then they'll have to buff the crap out of our other abilities to compensate, not the least of which being Chaos Bolt. I can already hear the tears from other classes when Destro gets >15% damage buffs on most of our spells.

(Grats on 1500 posts btw)

I said something last week i think that i still stand by, this is going to be the problem for the devs atm (in regards to destro)

Before Destruction warlocks get that 4 part and Amp trinket there dps is going to suck, Unless they get balanced around not having them, now this is the thing. Thats technically after progression is done for a large majority so which direction do you take, do you balance the spec going into 5.4 because if you do this then its literally + 15% damage buffs as Brusalk said above, or do you leave them with absoloutely insane damage at the end of the spec due to the Amp trinket and 4 set, they should balance us going into it, the problem is that im not sure they are willing to buff any spec that much going from 1 tier to another.

@Zum, ive done a monster amount of checking and trust me this trinket is going to be god tier for 2 specs, Destro and Fire, they are both going to run incredibly high crit and mastery and more to the point have masteries that flat increase damage. Its actually absoloutely absurd for fire right now because of how combustion interacts with haste for extra dot ticks and ofc the other 2 stats, but fire is going to get grounded like nothing normal coming into 5.4 so ill reserve judgement on how that will play out.

http://i.imgur.com/4isjDGM.png <-- 3 target combustion spread with everything up (this is actually real i spent a huge amount of time arguing about how this trinket would play out with combustion)

[Brusalk]

Woot ! (are those numbers even real, I don't remember writing so many posts )

This trinket does seem very good for Destro, but I used to think the same about some T15 trinkets and they eventually were better for the DoTs specs (yes UVLS, I'm looking at you right now).

Yeah, but for DoT specs they don't really benefit from the +Crit Damage portion as it updates dynamically. Sure they benefit from haste/mastery, but I'd be very surprised if that increase for their DoTs would be worth more than us pumping out huge chaos bolts for the duration.

(I will admit I thought the same about UVLS.)

WTB 200% Crit Damage trinket proc with static Int.

[Werst]

Destro vs live you are talking about a ~5-6% buff straight across the board just to offset the RoF change. That doesn't begin to cover what we will need to keep pace with aff/demo (or other classes). You would need to flat buff destro at least 15+% to catch aff/demo and that is ignoring destro's scaling weaknesses. The real rub is that with the right trinket combo and 4pc its probably the spec will slingshot making balance a near impossible mark to hit.

Since progression happens when people aren't in bis and aren't geared I really hope destro gets balanced around the notion that we don't have very specific items. Especially on things like trinkets that are RNG to drop and often very sought after. I mean I just replaced my 522 shado pan valor trinket last week and have been done w' progression for almost 2 months. (and I'm still using a non heroic UVLS) 4xT16 isn't necessarily unrealistic, but a 2x trinket combo is pushing it.

PVP destro does need help. If it can't have a chaosbolt that we can use as readily as what other ranged or melee burst specs are doing then what IS your solution? The reason we can't have instant chaosbolts is the devs have some subjective oogabooga notion about them when the math of what other specs/classes do with far less effort is well in excess of the theoretically buffed version being discussed. IE even IF CB's were instant at 3x backdraft we'd still be only midpack in terms of burst on demand in pvp. Notice how destro representation has faceplanted since the 5.3 "fix"? So even if it isn't instant CB at 3x backdraft the spec needs big time help somewhere in pvp and I don't see a thing to indicate that's on the radar in terms of 5.4 changes. I mean with the changes we know about haunt is going to hit harder than chaosbolt for half the cast time. How do you see a 3 sec cast time spell with a limited resource being competitive in modern pvp without hitting for absurd damage? Except it doesn't hit very hard anymore and is still absurdly hard to use. If we are up against the max its allowed to hit someone for then we need to be able to use it reliably and more frequently.

Conceptually destro is still about its nukes. Buffs to immolate without buffs to our nukes dilute that direction. Further there is only so much you can buff a dot before odd stuff happens...like destro having better dots than aff or something like what happened with mage bombs. Think most people who play destro prefer to have the spec be about nukes. Having an ignite like mechanic has been a failure for chaosbolt which still clips to this day. Destro has been more about pressing the right thing (among fewer choices) at the right time versus a more button bloated rotation which does fit the "easy to learn, hard to master" goal.

Maybe at 3x backdraft chaosbolt is uninterruptable AND castable on the move but something has to give in terms of PVP. Also no way RoF + MF is enough, it will need to have F&B spells included if destro is going to keep up in aoe. If you gave destro that in pvp it would be a start and put CB on par with powershot (sans knockback ofc).

If we are aiming to balance without 4xT16 + amp trinket + crit trinket then something like:
*conflag cd reduced by haste (dynamically)
*glyph to change backdraft's 30% haste gain for incinerate to 30% crit or damage
*arcane mage'ish spellpower coef for immo, conflag, FF, and incinerate
*15% flat buff to immo, conflag, FF, and incinerate

[Deleted]

Before Destruction warlocks get that 4 part and Amp trinket there dps is going to suck

Speaking of which, I just hopped into PTR and noticed that (4) set bonus has a icd for destro, which seems to be 10 seconds since you filled an ember (or in other words, 5 seconds after the buff fades it cannot proc again). Even though 15% crit sounded quite good, the set bonus kinda sucks if we have to time it when our embers refill based on it... this just makes haste even worse.

[Deleted]

Speaking of which, I just hopped into PTR and noticed that (4) set bonus has a icd for destro, which seems to be 10 seconds since you filled an ember (or in other words, 5 seconds after the buff fades it cannot proc again). Even though 15% crit sounded quite good, the set bonus kinda sucks if we have to time it when our embers refill based on it... this just makes haste even worse.

Haste is gna be absoloute dog crap for Destro in 5.4 if Conflag doesnt get its CD reduced by haste (which it wont because then when backdraft is changed to damage it will be absurdly op, or keeping it the same will result in our casts just being retardedly quick).

The ICD isint actually all that bad cause when you play at high crit ratings you can game the proc really well by casting chaos bolt at 29 embers > Immolate brings it over > cast chaos / immolate / conflag under the crit proc, this on top of the fact that we have 2 choices in trinkets that are ICD and not RPPM (atm) actually gives destruction some super controlled gameplay.

[Deleted]

this on top of the fact that we have 2 choices in trinkets that are ICD and not RPPM (atm) actually gives destruction some super controlled gameplay.

Which trinkets have an ICD? I supposed all of them were going to be subject to RPPM system.

[Deleted]

12k crit one and the Amp one

Both 105 second internal

[Deleted]

What about the cleave one and the one that duplicates 1/3 of dmg done? Are the chances of those trinkets modified by haste / subject to RPPM? Is the stacking int trinket the only RPPM trinket in 5.4?

[Deleted]

Stacking int is RPPM< the others seem to be aswell although they are harder to test for obvious reasons, and there is no way in hell you would use them single target anyway tbh

The cleave one doesnt actually hit the main target anyway (this makes sense with use of the word 'cleave')

Multistrike one, well i guess it could be ok, but i dont see it as anything except that.

[Jetjaguar]

Multistrike was 2% of my damage as all specs on the target dummy. I don't feel like it will be any good.

[Deleted]

•Mannoroth's Fury Increases the area of your area of effect damage spells by 500% and damage by 50% of your Seed of Corruption, 100% of your Hellfire, Immolation Aura and 150% of your Rain of Fire for 10 sec. Warlock - LvL 90 Talent. Instant. 1.5 min cooldown. 60 sec cooldown.

•Grimoire of Sacrifice. You sacrifice your demon to gain one of its abilities, increase the power of many of your single target spells by % and regenerate 2% of maximum health every 5 sec. Lasts for 1 hour. Summoning another demon cancels the effect. Reduce Mannoroth's Fury cooldown by 30 sec.

•Kil'jaden's Cunning no longer reduces movement speed, and will now allow the Warlock to cast Incinerate, Malefic Grasp, Shadow Bolt and Searing Pain while moving

•Soul Leech can now also activate from Shadowburn, and caps out at 50% of the Warlock and their pet's maximum health (down from 100%).


• Fire & Brimstone. Your Immolate, Incinerate, Conflagrate, Searing Pain and Curse spells consume a Burning Ember and will hit all targets within 10 yards of the target and deal [(35 * (100 + 24 * (cond($gt(level, 79), 1, 0))) / 100)]% of their normal damage.

• Searing Pain 1.5 sec cast. 12s cooldown. Inflict searing pain on the enemy target, causing x to y shadowfire damage. Increase ember regeneration (of all spells generating ember) by 20% for 8s.

Adjust parameters to taste so that destruction remains competitive with other warlock specs / other classes.

[Deleted]

Except that they wont add in new spells this late into the expansion, this is why blizzard havent actually done anything about the state of destruction yet because they believe its mechanically solid (note i didnt say it actually is), so what is going to happen is that they are going to get the the number testing phase and go 'Ohh shit lol' when they see exactly how much you are going to have to buff the few spells destruction has to get it up to bar with the other specs because it has next to no haste scaling atm.

Like the idea though, how would you do 20% increased ember regen on spells that only generate 1 or 2 embers ;p that would be kinda messy

[Apero]

•Grimoire of Sacrifice... Reduce Mannoroth's Fury cooldown by 30 sec.

I feel like Blizzard is trying to troll us.
Atleast for Demo/Affli, as destro with amplification trinket, sacrifice should come out ahead anyway.

[Deleted]

Ok without any new spell:

. Mortal coil. Instant, 45s cooldown. Causes the enemy target to run in horror for 3 sec. The caster restores 15% of their maximum health. Generates Burning Embers. Critical strikes double this effect.

. Shadowfury. Instant, 30s cooldown. Shadowfury is unleashed, stunning all enemies within 8 yds for 3 sec. Generates Burning Embers. Critical strikes double this effect.

The advantage would be to make our action priority list a little longer. Also there would be a strategic dimension, e.g. should I keep mortal coil for incoming damage or can I use it now.
Of course the simplest way for Blizzard to rebalance destruction would probably to simply tune-up Mastery: Fiery Apocalypse

[Deleted]

Ok without any new spell:

. Mortal coil. Instant, 45s cooldown. Causes the enemy target to run in horror for 3 sec. The caster restores 15% of their maximum health. Generates Burning Embers. Critical strikes double this effect.

. Shadowfury. Instant, 30s cooldown. Shadowfury is unleashed, stunning all enemies within 8 yds for 3 sec. Generates Burning Embers. Critical strikes double this effect.

The advantage would be to make our action priority list a little longer. Also there would be a strategic dimension, e.g. should I keep mortal coil for incoming damage or can I use it now.
Of course the simplest way for Blizzard to rebalance destruction would probably to simply tune-up Mastery: Fiery Apocalypse

How is using a no/very little damage spell better then just casting incin? o.o