So What Does The Alliance Want?

[Aquamonkey]

No.

The sane response would be to defeat them militarily, then occupy their lands and restructure their system so they don't pose a threat.

In other words - disband the horde and try to get the Tauren and BElfs into the Alliance.

Alliance already tried backstabbing the Horde and wiping them out after a joint venture. You want them to do it again? After all the crying about Sylvanas backstabbing Garithos...

[Deleted]

Alliance already tried backstabbing the Horde and wiping them out after a joint venture. You want them to do it again? After all the crying about Sylvanas backstabbing Garithos...

Wich particular bit of story you are talking about?

Also, talking about backstabbing....I lost the count of how many time Jaina got backstabbed...and thats good, shes a dumb blond bimbo and she deserves it.

[Colonel Sandor]

Your enemy has internal problems. What to do ?

a) Help them deal with it, so they can continue to be your enemy
b) Wait for the most opportune moment to attack and wipe them all out

Normal person: b
Metzen: a

This Alliance is nothing without the Horde.

[Aquamonkey]

Wich particular bit of story you are talking about?

Also, talking about backstabbing....I lost the count of how many time Jaina got backstabbed...and thats good, shes a dumb blond bimbo and she deserves it.

When Varian declared war on the Horde and attacked Thrall after working together to clear UC of the Legion loyalists.

[Dreknar20]

When Varian declared war on the Horde and attacked Thrall after working together to clear UC of the Legion loyalists.

how could we forget, more content where the Horde has to fuck up its own people and cities

[Silver-Fox]

Having played both sides I feel Alliance isn't represented in the same light as the Horde. What is cool about the Horde is the races, individually, are very distinct where the core races of the Alliance (Human, Dwarves and Gnome) blend too well together I feel. Because of this the Horde stands out a little more because I feel their characters are more distinguishable from another.

I think Blizzard would showcase the Alliance more so if they could but I feel the developers would rather spend time working on new content, as mentioned by Blizzard themselves, than reworking old content to show Alliance victories in the present game world.

But for the sake of discussion what I would like to see is better development for the Alliance characters. Alliance leaders feel distant when compared to the Horde leaders who seem more down to earth.

Also maybe see Theramore rebuilt and garrisoned to vanguard the Alliance's presence in Kalimindor. Maybe see the Horde pushed back or pushed out of some zones. Not becuase they lost or anything but maybe because they all left to either fight for or against Garrosh when Orgrimmar came under siege by both factions. So if we were to think maybe Garrosh abandoned certain fronts to reenforces his own defenses in Orgrimmar.

A world where we see the Alliance taking advantage of the chaos that is splitting the Horde apart. Maybe even further by taking territory by exploiting the new warchief. During the transition where whomever takes the mantle of warchief there are bound to be Hellscream loyalists hidden in the shadows to further disrupt the Horde from within. Perhaps in the next expansion, the first few patches show Orgrimmar beat-up and wrecked by the siege, the Orc population recovering from the destruction.

I think in that sense why players see this as more of a Horde victory is because Blizzard needed to convince Horde players strongly that Garrosh needed to be dethroned and make them feel justified, lore-wise, for the final raid of the expansion.

[Deleted]

When Varian declared war on the Horde and attacked Thrall after working together to clear UC of the Legion loyalists.

That wasnt really a "Backstab" He declared it first. So he stated his position.
Backstab is when you use a neutral city to gain access to an enemy territory and steal from them.

[Aquamonkey]

That wasnt really a "Backstab" He declared it first. So he stated his position.
Backstab is when you use a neutral city to gain access to an enemy territory and steal from them.

Varian got himself and his troops into the heart of UC under the flag of cooperation, then attacked with the intention of wiping out the Horde... How is that not a backstab?

Yes, a "neutral" city that had already aided the Alliance twice before.

[Deleted]

Varian got himself and his troops into the heart of UC under the flag of cooperation, then attacked with the intention of wiping out the Horde... How is that not a backstab?

Yes, a "neutral" city that had already aided the Alliance twice before.

I don't think Varian accepted to cooperate with the Horde in clearing UC, he was just pissed and was there for revenge, thats all.
Dalaran or the kirintor didn't aid the alliance at all after it became neutral in WoTlK if im not tragically mistaken here. Rhonin was at Theramore to help save lives, and he got killed. Then Its neutrality was abused by the horde, thats all.

[Talen]

Varian got himself and his troops into the heart of UC under the flag of cooperation

Cooperation at UC?

Not happening. The Alliance and Horde had a truce and worked together against the LK.

That ended when Varian took his revenge against Putress and found out what the Forsaken had been up to in UC.

He was understandably upset at the murder, torture, experimentation and slavery he found in UC.

But what makes you think he cooperated in the assault at all? The script seems to indicate neither side is aware of the other till the ebd.

EJL

[Kerplank]

I believe Mr Morden should ask that question!

[Defengar]

so basically, deny their ability to be an independent nation and just control them?

Uuuuh. Thats what the US did in West German and Japan after WW2, and the US doesn't control either of those countries (and both did quit well).

[Aquamonkey]

I don't think Varian accepted to cooperate with the Horde in clearing UC, he was just pissed and was there for revenge, thats all.
Dalaran or the kirintor didn't aid the alliance at all after it became neutral in WoTlK if im not tragically mistaken here. Rhonin was at Theramore to help save lives, and he got killed. Then Its neutrality was abused by the horde, thats all.

The Wrathgate betrayal attacked Horde and Alliance equally. Horde and Alliance still had a truce. Both Horde and Alliance attacks on UC happen at the same time.
Horde: Horde attacks UC from entrance. After all enemies are defeated, Varian approaches the throne room and attacks.
Alliance: Alliance attacks UC from sewer tunnel. He knows the Horde are also fighting the traitors in UC. After all enemies are defeated, Varian approaches the throne room and attacks.

The Kirin Tor were at Theramore fighting the Horde.

[Defengar]

When Varian declared war on the Horde and attacked Thrall after working together to clear UC of the Legion loyalists.

Oh you mean after Varian had taken a tour of the UC and seen all of the shining moral bankruptcy and twistedness the forsaken plaster their city with? After he had seen the apothecary labs where the Forsaken experimented on alliance civilians even when war was not declared? After fighting a demon the Forsaken had willingly allied with up to that point?

[Aquamonkey]

Cooperation at UC?

Not happening. The Alliance and Horde had a truce and worked together against the LK.

That ended when Varian took his revenge against Putress and found out what the Forsaken had been up to in UC.

He was understandably upset at the murder, torture, experimentation and slavery he found in UC.

But what makes you think he cooperated in the assault at all? The script seems to indicate neither side is aware of the other till the ebd.

They still had a truce.

Alliance knew about the Horde fighting the traitors in UC. "Horde. By the looks of the struggle, they are here in force - somewhere."

Varian's racist views were driven by his experiences outside of UC: "I have seen the Horde's world. I have been inside their cities. Inside their minds... I know what evil lies in the hearts of orcs."

- - - Updated - - -

Oh you mean after Varian had taken a tour of the UC and seen all of the shining moral bankruptcy and twistedness the forsaken plaster their city with? After he had seen the apothecary labs where the Forsaken experimented on alliance civilians even when war was not declared? After fighting a demon the Forsaken had willingly allied with up to that point?

"I have seen the Horde's world. I have been inside their cities. Inside their minds... I know what evil lies in the hearts of orcs."
And
"I've waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas... for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you... I could only think of one thing. What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde... It ends now, Warchief."

Sure sounds like his beef was with what the Forsaken were doing...

[Deleted]

They still had a truce.

Alliance knew about the Horde fighting the traitors in UC. "Horde. By the looks of the struggle, they are here in force - somewhere."

Varian's racist views were driven by his experiences outside of UC: "I have seen the Horde's world. I have been inside their cities. Inside their minds... I know what evil lies in the hearts of orcs."

- - - Updated - - -


"I have seen the Horde's world. I have been inside their cities. Inside their minds... I know what evil lies in the hearts of orcs."
And
"I've waited a long time for this, Thrall. For every time I was thrown into one of your damned arenas... for every time I killed a green-skinned aberration like you... I could only think of one thing. What our world could be without you and your twisted Horde... It ends now, Warchief."

Sure sounds like his beef was with what the Forsaken were doing...

I kinda think that truce ended as soon as the wrathgate incident happened.
Speaking of Backstabbing...Remember Mord'Rethar the Death gate, also known as the broken front? Speaking of backstabbing.



http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:The_Broken_Front_(Horde)

TRUCE, my ass!

[Talen]

They still had a truce.

Alliance knew about the Horde fighting the traitors in UC. "Horde. By the looks of the struggle, they are here in force.

As I said...if they only realised the Horde were there because of the evidence, then there was no cooperation in the assault.

EJL

[Deleted]

As I said...if they only realised the Horde were there because of the evidence, then there was no cooperation in the assault.

EJL

Ditto.
There was no backstabing, just a pissed off Varian and a dumb Jaina doing dumb stuff once again.

[Aquamonkey]

I kinda think that truce ended as soon as the wrathgate incident happened.

Why would it? Both Horde and Alliance forces were attacked by Putress at Wrathgate.

Speaking of Backstabbing...Remember Mord'Rethar the Death gate, also known as the broken front? Speaking of backstabbing.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Quest:The_Broken_Front_(Horde)

TRUCE, my ass!

Isn't that after Battle for UC when Varian declared war on the Horde?

- - - Updated - - -

As I said...if they only realised the Horde were there because of the evidence, then there was no cooperation in the assault.

Ditto.
There was no backstabing, just a pissed off Varian and a dumb Jaina doing dumb stuff once again.

They were still under a truce and it is known that the people responsible for Wrathgate betrayed both the Horde and Alliance.

[Deleted]

Why would it? Both Horde and Alliance forces were attacked by Putress at Wrathgate.


Isn't that after Battle for UC when Varian declared war on the Horde?

One, Because Putress was kinda a horde guy and the alliance didnt care afterwards, they lost one of their best leaders and they were pissed.

Two, Still, shows how the horde are backstabbing scumbags, Unlike Varian, who had every right to hate the horde. Seeing his soldiers and general die because of them and seeing the mess in UC plus being internally pissed about how they locked him up and made him a gladiator forcefully. (wich also reminds me of Thrall's early years, but he got proper revenge on Blackmoore and all thoose concentration camps allright)