New Warchief on September 10th

[Trassk]

The only one I would be annoyed if they choose is Thrall. I have had enough of him. I like him as a character but it would be nice to let someone else shine for once.

and yet, every other suggestion has been bullcrap. blood elves? forsaken? there all retarded options. Baine? the tauren who's done nothing except conform until someone hands his a stick. Vol'jin? The only one with balls to stand against garrosh, but he's not an orc either, and the orcs wouldn't follow an non-orc leader.

[Count Zero]

They spoiled too much by saying the last boss was Garrosh and Thrall would come back as Warchief. So they backpedaled on the Thrall announcement.

Can you tell us a bit more about the upcoming raid on Orgrimmar?
Sure. We haven't designed very much of it right now, we just know we do want to have the recognition from the Horde and Alliance that we have to depose Garrosh as the leader of the Horde and reinstate Thrall as Warchief. I'm really excited about it from a player perspective, because I think if you're an Alliance player, the idea about doing a raid into the heart of your enemies capital is really satisfying, and deposing the enemy leader is super gratifying. On the Horde side, it's going to be super cool to have a raid in your own home town, and who doesn't want Thrall to be the leader of the Horde? (Source)

From March 2012.

I think this is easily explained without any backpedaling necessary (although I can see why they would):

Garrosh was never official Warchief. The last time Thrall spoke to him in person, he said he (Garrosh) would be Warchief while he (Thrall) is away. It was not a permanent promotion.

So, the moment Garrosh dies, technically Thrall is Warchief once again, even if turns around and appoints someone else (Vol'jin ?) to the position, or announces a council to determine the new chief ... the literal result of deposing Garrosh is to reinstate Thrall, even if it is not the ultimate result.

[Trassk]

I think this is easily explained without any backpedaling necessary (although I can see why they would):

Garrosh was never official Warchief. The last time Thrall spoke to him in person, he said he (Garrosh) would be Warchief while he (Thrall) is away. It was not a permanent promotion.

So, the moment Garrosh dies, technically Thrall is Warchief once again, even if turns around and appoints someone else (Vol'jin ?) to the position, or announces a council to determine the new chief ... the literal result of deposing Garrosh is to reinstate Thrall, even if it is not the ultimate result.

you know, when they went to the effort of having a voice actor (who played Aggra) say lines like 'you are the rightful ruler of the horde', only for the devs to back down from that, would make me lose any faith I have in them, because no matter who else i'd choose, I'd be convinced they don't know what there doing anymore, and just writing the lore like a popularity contest instead of something with character.

[Zoomin]

Why can't you stand Lor'themar?...

....and since no one really knew who he was until this expansion.

Might not be the most popular opinion on here but this ^^^^ is the reason i would be disappointed with Lor'themar as warchief

[Frozenbeef]

I don't think thrall would be a bad choice compared to others *cough* vol'jin *cough* , but i can't see it happening due to the big story they had of taking on the responsibiltys of shaman/ having a family...

Just for excitement factor i would love sylvanas however that's even more unlikely :P

i think the problem is they havn't added any new horde/ orc characters which they haven't created for purposely killing off so we are left with a very limited choice of either thrall or thralls bffs>.<

[Dvaldin]

If it's anyone but Vol'jin you can color me shocked. If it is Vol'jin (or Thrall) then you can color me anti-mists-of-pandaria-climactic. If it's Sylvanas then, whoa, things just got REAL interesting.

[Trassk]

I don't think thrall would be a bad choice compared to others *cough* vol'jin *cough* , but i can't see it happening due to the big story they had of taking on the responsibiltys of shaman/ having a family...

Just for excitement factor i would love sylvanas however that's even more unlikely :P

i think the problem is they havn't added any new horde/ orc characters which they haven't created for purposely killing off so we are left with a very limited choice of either thrall or thralls bffs>.<

oh but they did didn't they.. and what did they do? They killed them. Orc characters who could have been in a better position for it, and they wiped them out.

[Grubjuice]

and yet, every other suggestion has been bullcrap. blood elves? forsaken? there all retarded options. Baine? the tauren who's done nothing except conform until someone hands his a stick. Vol'jin? The only one with balls to stand against garrosh, but he's not an orc either, and the orcs wouldn't follow an non-orc leader.

do you really think the orcs would not follow an non-orc leader?

i mean, if we are looking for historical precedent, the Twilights hammer (when it was a still a faction of the Old Horde, before it was a cult) was taken over by an Ogre, Cho'Gal, it seems those orcs were able to follow a non-orc, and they were a rather nasty, war-hungry, nihilistic lot.

I don't presume the Orcs of the New-Horde have such a deep seated culural bias or exceptionalism that enough of them can't be convinced to follow a non-orc warchief. Of course, i imagine no small number would be quite insulted or upset or confused, but i think it's not-realistic to entirely rule out the possibility that orcs are persuadable beings.

[Trassk]

do you really think the orcs would not follow an non-orc leader?

i mean, if we are looking for historical precedent, the Twilights hammer (when it was a still a faction of the Old Horde, before it was a cult) was taken over by an Ogre, Cho'Gal, it seems those orcs were able to follow a non-orc, and they were a rather nasty, war-hungry, nihilistic lot.

I don't presume the Orcs of the New-Horde have such a deep seated culural bias or exceptionalism that enough of them can't be convinced to follow a non-orc warchief. Of course, i imagine no small number would be quite insulted or upset or confused, but i think it's not-realistic to entirely rule out the possibility that orcs are persuadable beings.

1 - the twilights hammer were insane, power hungry despots who wanted to end the world, they didn't care if an orc, orge, or dragon told them to, they just followed for the sake of destruction.
2 - Every other playable race is represented by one of there own kind. You can't even present to me an example of someone who isn't the same as there own kind, because a leader has to have that understanding of that respected race. Thats just fundamental story telling in this genre.

And since the alliance is still lead by humans and there human king as become warchief of the horde, having a non-orc warchief representing the horde is complete bullshit.

[Deleted]

Anyone remember that "Iron Horde" labeled thing a while ago in the 5.4 files? Makes me wonder if the Horde splits into two factions once Lor'themar has been assigned as new Warchief - the "New Horde" (which is what we as players have access to) and the "Iron Horde" (an NPC faction that doesn't accept Lor'themar). Or maybe we have two Horde factions with different leaders (Lor'themar and another one) in WOWX5, which functions as one Horde in battlegrounds etc, but lorewise go separate ways.

[Grubjuice]

1 - the twilights hammer were insane, power hungry despots who wanted to end the world, they didn't care if an orc, orge, or dragon told them to, they just followed for the sake of destruction.
2 - Every other playable race is represented by one of there own kind. You can't even present to me an example of someone who isn't the same as there own kind, because a leader has to have that understanding of that respected race. Thats just fundamental story telling in this genre.

And since the alliance is still lead by humans and there human king as become warchief of the horde, having a non-orc warchief representing the horde is complete bullshit.

point 1 is granted

point 2 you are conflating the Orc Faction leader with the Warchief of the Horde. Historically the two have always been the same, but that's like saying historically the USA has only had white male presidents, so the white americans will never elect a Black president, Or no president has ever been born in Hawaii, so non Hawaiian americans will never accept a Hawaiian born President.

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it's possible the Orcs can get an Orc Faction Leader (say , Saurfang) but that the Horde as a group decides that the Warchief shall be someone else. I don't think the horde has a constitution that forbids that from happening.

[Lilitheria]

Well, my vote would go to Lor'themar.

-He is a cool one.
-He often says "Silvermoon will rise again." Maybe if Lor'themar become the leader of Blood Elves, Silvermoon will become Horde Capital and "rise". Would be a nice touch.
-And maybe if Silvermoon becomes capital, they will remake Silvermoon, because there were some people who ask for its remake. (Currently you can't fly in Silvermoon.)

But, would Blizzard make Lor'themar leader of Horde? I really don't think so.

[Grubjuice]

Anyone remember that "Iron Horde" labeled thing a while ago in the 5.4 files? Makes me wonder if the Horde splits into two factions once Lor'themar has been assigned as new Warchief - the "New Horde" (which is what we as players have access to) and the "Iron Horde" (an NPC faction that doesn't accept Lor'themar).

i could see that happening very easily.
A schism is quite typical.

[Trassk]

point 1 is granted

point 2 you are conflating the Orc Faction leader with the Warchief of the Horde. Historically the two have always been the same, but that's like saying historically the USA has only had white male presidents, so the white americans will never elect a Black president.

wow thats a horrible comparison.. do people actually look at obama as 'the black guy'?
Well thats stupid, he's an american president leading america.

(really did you just lump black americans and white americans into two different camps there?)

A better comparison would be saying having a german being president, or a spanish leading the UK.

[Mikehuntz]

I still wish that Gamon will rise up and take the mantle of warchief or even Mankrik but I think we all know it's going to be Vol'jin

[Grubjuice]

wow thats a horrible comparison.. do people actually look at obama as 'the black guy'?
Well thats stupid, he's an american president leading america.

(really did you just lump black americans and white americans into two different camps there?)

A better comparison would be saying having a german being president, or a spanish leading the UK.

that how you seem to be splitting Orcs and Non-orcs in the horde.
that Orcs would simply refuse a non-orc warchief because he is not an Orc

so i stand by my straw-man analogy

The closest analogy would actually be the EU presidency, which shifts from country to country.
The EU presidency is always held by an EU member country's head of state but it's not always the SAME country's head of state.

[Wildberry]

point 1 is granted
so the white americans will never elect a Black president, Or no president has ever been born in Hawaii, so non Hawaiian americans will never accept a Hawaiian born President.

Here's the thing, Obama, regardless of peoples political opinions of the man, is still an American, Hawaii is still part of America.

If you want to make a real life comparison, having Vol'jin or another as Warchief, would be like having an Italian Rebel in either the President or Chancellor position of West Germany post-WWII (Note: For this comparison, I've cut out the bit of time where Germany was Annexed)

[Grubjuice]

just because the President of France or Chancellor of Germany is the President of the EU one 6 month period, doesn't mean that the he/she will be in perpetuity

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Here's the thing, Obama, regardless of peoples political opinions of the man, is still an American, Hawaii is still part of America.

If you want to make a real life comparison, having Vol'jin or another as Warchief, would be like having an Italian Rebel in either the President or Chancellor position of West Germany post-WWII (Note: For this comparison, I've cut out the bit of time where Germany was Annexed)

you are also conflating Faction Leader with Warchief of the entire horde

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just because the the faction leader of the orcs is the warchief of the horde NOW doesn't mean that it must always be that way

[chrisisvacant]

wow thats a horrible comparison.. do people actually look at obama as 'the black guy'?
Well thats stupid, he's an american president leading america.

(really did you just lump black americans and white americans into two different camps there?)

A better comparison would be saying having a german being president, or a spanish leading the UK.

Are you American? That exact analogy is often repeated in the media. Plenty of white conservatives refuse to vote for a black president. This is, in part, what inspired the "Birther Movement" in American politics.

[FrostHate]

My money goes on Sylvanas.
It'll be hilarious to watch all the tears. =D