Mafia game discussion thread.

[Omertocracy]

To be honest, don't Google Image Search ANYTHING with the filter off. Way too often have I had to realize that, yes, Rule 34 is a thing.

I have seen an anthropomorphic depiction of Rule 34 itself banging an anthropomorphic depiction of Rule 35. And the followup picture where Rule 35 turns into Rule 63. The Rules of the Internet are fractal.

[Deleted]

I have seen an anthropomorphic depiction of Rule 34 itself banging an anthropomorphic depiction of Rule 35. And the followup picture where Rule 35 turns into Rule 63. The Rules of the Internet are fractal.

Is a Rule 63'd Rule 35 a Rule 35.2?

[kel]

You're one to talk!

My avatar isnt THAT different

[Greeney]

Um, I believe what Greeney is referring to is how until the last handful of games, the only rule we had about people not talking to each other outside of the official threads was the dead couldn't discuss things with the living. Many people pretty readily PM'ed each other and everyone knew there were people who would talk outside the games. There were even a few games where that was how the town won. Heck in my first game, I got pretty much verified masoned because my buddies were killed. As a result the Seer and The cop both got in touch with me and I helped them coordinate things. Also... maybe it's just because I am super sleepy because I stayed up WAY to late last night but I missed somewhere how this is at all related to the discussion. Or maybe I am misunderstanding.

My argument is that it's against the spirit of the game, and far worse than what I did yet it was tolerated all around just because people felt they couldn't stop others from doing it.

Greeney mostly I was just confused by your play the entire game. In general I think you put things together pretty well so you kept doing things which were confusing. Like I don't understand what Catta's lack of voting seemed more scummy to you than Virothe's abysmal voting record. I pretty much felt that in general scums try to look as town as possible, and not voting is a pretty crap way to look town.

I was pretty certain the last scum was a Godfather. Virothe not having ever voted a scum I could see being just incredibly bad luck, Catta not voting was just a complete lack of trying or intentionally not trying to get on anyone's bad side/voting scum. Virothe's voting record did not appear to be pro-town so I'm not sure how I would assume he was scum trying to look like he was town based on it.

But if catta was scum he would have been a pretty unimportant/harmless scum (sorry catta <3) because he wasn't affecting lynches, which I know everyone thinks the scums tool to win is night kills, but they also try to make mislynches happen without appearing like they are causing them. Basically active scum are way more dangerous than inactive scum. Plus, yes Virothe could have been town, but if he was he still needed to die because he was causing the town way too much pain on the lynches. (but that's how my general thought process goes)

Problem with that argument was that it was last day and a wrong lynch either way costs town the game. Catta played such a poor game (he doesn't always, but he did last game), in my opinion, that I just couldn't put myself in a situation to help him win unless I was 100% certain he was town.

And yea I was disappointed in the end. I feel like it should be pretty clear that trying to put the other player(s) in a position where they either need to break rules or get lynched (like Danner did a couple of games ago) is not cool. You didn't go quiet that far Greeney, but I was mostly disappointed because I didn't expect something like that from you... That's mostly why I said what I said.

Turns out I've already said multiple times, long before the game apparently, when I first came here that I have no problem with people playing as they like as long as they follow the rules listed in the OP. Like in that post I quoted where I said spirit of the game shouldn't determine what's allowed and what's forbidden. Nobody seemed to have a problem with it when I mentioned that way back when I joined. Like Keleb said, when I mod I do my best in advance to prevent anything I wouldn't want from happening. I wouldn't have killed Danner for what he did if I was modding that game, especially if I messed up modding by telling him it was okay; I would have killed the person (can't remember who right now) that responded to him by going beyond the point of summarizing their role though.

Also just a complete side comment. I would caution people to try an interpret game mod actions and what they might mean less (or at least if someone does this take it with a grain of salt). Most of the time people have done this they come up with the wrong reason because you just don't know all the variables.

Maybe, but when a mod doesn't enforce the rules clearly, I think you have reason to try and figure out why.

Yes.. but context matters. And there is some small leeway given due to it being Mafia and it sort of inherently is not a particularly fluffy game. In general it's an infraction though and not a modkill (though if you get banned as a result that does sometimes lead to a modkill).

Yes, but I think you're missing my point here. Someone flaming someone else (over a game, unless it's strategic) is far worse than suggesting a loophole.

Spirit of the game stuff is always going to be difficult because it is subjective and is why at the end of the day it is left up to the game mod to decide.

I agree, but now that it's happened I think mods have the responsibility to tell people not to do it in the OP or people should be able to assume it's fine to do.

We kind of fluctuate on that one and again it depends on the game mod. Some want all posting to stop as soon as the last vote is cast, some think it's fine for talk to continue because it's not officially night until the mod posts. People can probably tighten up these things in the OPs moving forward... though I have noticed a disturbing lack of reading the OP from a lot of people

Agreed again, and if it's not in the rules then people should have every right to post until the moderator says it's night. However, if someone is going to whine about disregarding the spirit of the game they shouldn't be posting after night has ended when they clearly know it's wrong, while telling someone else not to do it.

I'd get why you have a problem with this Greeney but you have to remember, you weren't actually mod killed for it, people were just mad or sad about the fact you did it.

With all due respect Anakso, I think you missed the point completely.

I don't care about people being mad or sad; I have a problem with people accusing me of cheating/breaking the rules because they've deluded themselves into believing unspecified rules should be in effect. I have a problem with mods determining whether to modkill on what makes the game end in the most dramatic fashion. I have no problem being modkilled at a mod's discretion if they feel I've crossed a line, I mentioned this a dozen times already, and that's not why I've been willing to argue this to hell. I also have a problem with people saying I should be concerned with the 'spirit of the game' when they have done or allowed things that they are fully aware is against the spirit of the game.

[Lysah]

The old PMing people did wasn't against the spirit of the game because anyone you talked to could be on the other team and you had no way of knowing. I'm not sure what else you could be talking about.

[Krayzy]

I've read none of these arguments.

[Greeney]

The old PMing people did wasn't against the spirit of the game because anyone you talked to could be on the other team and you had no way of knowing. I'm not sure what else you could be talking about.

Lysah, go play mafia on any other forum and 99% of people will give you shit for trying it. People generally expect you to know not to do it. It is 100% against the spirit of the game and always has been online. I could have just as easily been scum suggesting two townies make the move, there's no way of knowing except for the fact that both of Virothe and Catta's voting records were piss poor for townies. Good argument.

[Lysah]

Lysah, go play mafia on any other forum and 99% of people will give you shit for trying it. People generally expect you to know not to do it. It is 100% against the spirit of the game and always has been online.

I don't play mafia on other forums, mafia was not meant to EVER be played on a forum. It was not meant to take 3 months like your game took, or to have a week discussion over one lynch.

I honestly don't know why you're still defending yourself, nobody has agreed with you yet and you're just dragging on at this point.

[Greeney]

I don't play mafia on other forums, mafia was not meant to EVER be played on a forum. It was not meant to take 3 months like your game took, or to have a week discussion over one lynch.

I honestly don't know why you're still defending yourself, nobody has agreed with you yet and you're just dragging on at this point.

Actually, yes, someone has.
I'm defending myself because I don't feel I cheated. Just because you have no real argument besides "spirit of the game is whatever I imagine it is because mafia was first played in real life lolz" doesn't mean I need to stop explaining myself or that the majority of people know it's wrong to talk with others outside the game unless they're mafia or masons. Otherwise what's the point of one of the primary mafia roles being a mason? Sometimes you just need to use logic before commenting.


Here's some reading for you, FAQ from the biggest online mafia community:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=FAQ

Can I talk to someone at night or outside of the thread?

It is almost always against the rules to discuss anything with anyone at night unless you are in the Mafia or a Mason lodge. It is also usually against the rules to contact someone during the day privately.

Really is common sense, but if you're desperate to convince yourselves otherwise nothing I can do. I don't really care whether you did/encouraged it; I think if a mod wanted to ban it they should have listed it as a rule in the OP, but "spirit of the game" is not something that's up to what Lysah determines for inane reasons.

[Lysah]

Actually, yes, someone has.
I'm defending myself because I don't feel I cheated. Just because you have no real argument besides "spirit of the game is whatever I imagine it is because mafia was first played in real life lolz" doesn't mean I need to stop explaining myself or that the majority of people know it's wrong to talk with others outside the game unless they're mafia or masons. Otherwise what's the point of one of the primary mafia roles being a mason? Sometimes you just need to use logic before commenting.

Does it matter if you cheated? No one else is making a huge deal out of this. You weren't modkilled, the game ended, it's in the past. It's time to move on, this isn't even worth the time it takes to type a post.

Masons are mod confirmed town to each other. That's a huge difference. Please stop being so aggressive before you turn this forum into 4chan.

[Greeney]

Does it matter if you cheated? No one else is making a huge deal out of this. You weren't modkilled, the game ended, it's in the past. It's time to move on, this isn't even worth the time it takes to type a post.

Masons are mod confirmed town to each other. That's a huge difference. Please stop being so aggressive before you turn this forum into 4chan.

It does matter if I cheated, I didn't cheat. Plenty of people made a huge deal. I don't give a shit if I was modkilled, maybe you should read and I'll be able to stop repeating myself? Masons are not mod confirmed town, you can align a town member with a scum member if a mod desires; the purpose to being a mason is the ability to talk outside the thread.

Go see the update to my last post and stop pretending that the game is supposed to be played based on a 'spirit of the game' you've imagined inside your head rather than what the majority of the online mafia community accepts as a giant unspoken rule.

[Lysah]

It does matter if I cheated, I didn't cheat. Plenty of people made a huge deal. I don't give a shit if I was modkilled, maybe you should read? Masons are not mod confirmed town, you can align a town member with a scum member if a mod desires; the purpose to being a mason is the ability to talk outside the thread.

Go see the update to my last post.

Nobody is banning you from future games. Nobody is even mad at you. You seem to be the only person upset about what happened. What are you fighting for, again? Internet honor? Give me a break.

[Greeney]

Nobody is banning you from future games. Nobody is even mad at you. You seem to be the only person upset about what happened. What are you fighting for, again? Internet honor? Give me a break.

Holy crap, it's not about being banned from future games. I am not upset about what happened.

As I told Anakso a very short time ago:

I don't care about people being mad or sad; I have a problem with people accusing me of cheating/breaking the rules because they've deluded themselves into believing unspecified rules should be in effect. I have a problem with mods determining whether to modkill on what makes the game end in the most dramatic fashion. I have no problem being modkilled at a mod's discretion if they feel I've crossed a line, I mentioned this a dozen times already, and that's not why I've been willing to argue this to hell. I also have a problem with people saying I should be concerned with the 'spirit of the game' when they have done or allowed things that they are fully aware is against the spirit of the game.

Those are the three problems I have. If you want to accuse me of cheating then do a better job of convincing me I cheated. If you want to talk about spirit of the game as a reason why I cheated, then don't do things that everyone should know is against the spirit of the game.

[Lysah]

Holy crap, it's not about being banned from future games. I am not upset about what happened. I am upset tha
As I told Anakso a very short time ago:



Those are the three problems I have. If you want to accuse me of cheating then do a better job of convincing me I cheated. If you want to talk about spirit of the game as a reason why I cheated, then don't do things that everyone should know is against the spirit of the game.

Sorry, you're just going to have to live with the fact that you cheated. We all make mistakes.

[Greeney]

Sorry, you're just going to have to live with the fact that you cheated. We all make mistakes.

Okay, thanks for trolling.
Go read the mafiascum FAQ, you have some very basic learning about the game to do.


Again, here you go:
http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=FAQ

It's under the part titled "General Mafia Etiquette." As in, general etiquette that everyone who plays mafia should know. Just in case that part wasn't clear enough for you; It seems you need certain things repeated quite a few times.

[Lysah]

Okay, thanks for trolling.
Go read the mafiascum FAQ, you have some very basic learning about the game to do.

I don't know what to tell you, kid. Most of the talk in the dead thread was how everyone would feel IF you actually suggested two people race to mod kill themselves. But you didn't, so nobody cares. You're really arguing over nothing, I don't know what else I can say here.

You trying to insult me and my mafia ability as part of your strategy in this argument is really not helping your case, though.

[Greeney]

I don't know what to tell you, kid. Most of the talk in the dead thread was how everyone would feel IF you actually suggested two people race to mod kill themselves. But you didn't, so nobody cares. You're really arguing over nothing, I don't know what else I can say here.

You trying to insult me and my mafia ability as part of your strategy in this argument is really not helping your case, though.

I don't really care about most of the discussion, I care that people can't comprehend what cheating is and I care that people are arguing about spirit of the game while having no clue about it. Did you read it yet or are you going to keep pretending 'spirit of the game' or 'foundation stones of mafia' is whatever you imagine based on the original pre-online version of it?

[Lysah]

Did you read it yet?

You have yet to convince me that you're actually worth listening to or taking advice from. I'm just trying to help you out by telling you to stop wasting your time beating a dead horse that nobody else cared about in the first place.

[Krayzy]

Okay I'll speak up since I was quoted in one or two of these 5 million posts about this stupid topic.

Not all rules can be thought up prior to a game being started. Some people will use their brain to try and find any advantage they can get and if you are doing that then there is a good chance you are doing something you shouldn't be doing.

You can call it "a creative use of game mechanics" all you want, but that's just a nicer way of saying "I did something I know wasn't intended to be part of the game".

[Greeney]

You have yet to convince me that you're actually worth listening to or taking advice from. I'm just trying to help you out by telling you to stop wasting your time beating a dead horse that nobody else cared about in the first place.

Right, so rather than reading an FAQ about general mafia etiquette from the primary online mafia community, you're going to assume 'spirit of the game' is 'whatever I want to believe when it's convenient for me.' You're not trying to help me out, you're trying to get me to stop defending myself because you want me to pretend to accept I cheated when I didn't. If you didn't care you wouldn't still be responding to me. But really, you haven't provided much of an argument besides repeating the word cheating over and over again while not understanding what it means.

Okay I'll speak up since I was quoted in one or two of these 5 million posts about this stupid topic.

Not all rules can be thought up prior to a game being started. Some people will use their brain to try and find any advantage they can get and if you are doing that then there is a good chance you are doing something you shouldn't be doing.

You can call it "a creative use of game mechanics" all you want, but that's just a nicer way of saying "I did something I know wasn't intended to be part of the game".

Fair enough, which is why I would be fine with being modkilled if that's what the game mod would have decided. And it's also why I suggested banning it in the OP (as well as another loophole I realized) in future games so people don't try it in the future if the mod doesn't want to allow it. It's still not cheating unless you want to argue that it's against the spirit of the game. And if you want to argue it's cheating because against the spirit of the game then you ought to be just as frustrated with people who talk outside the thread during the game or post once night has started. Do you see my point?

Either way thank you for at least responding in a civilized manner.