[Mage] Careful with Sarcasm

[Slant]

For FUCK sakes... -_-;

Is GC really that dense?

Um, how many more years of abuse have players to take from him for people to realise that?

[Orange Joe]

Certainly welcome to do so and no matter how right you are to have an opinion, you are in a tiny minority on this one.

I didn't notice this was in the mage sub-section. So I have to ask, when you say you don't like the talents. Are you talking about the new talent tree, or the lvl 90 mage talents?

[Akraen]

Just the level 90 talents.

I mean personally I hate the whole design. I enjoy showing up and defeating bosses with my toolkit. I'm not too fond of a system where I need a checklist just to go through my glyphs and talents before each pull and end up forgetting to recast my armor anyway.

There is too much to juggle and change in this system and I don't like that aspect. I also liked the breadcrumb accomplishments of having 31 or more points to spend. Though what they have now is okay, I don't like having to change things so frequently, feels more of a hassle than fun and engaging.

But this isn't about that, it's just about specifically how bad the level 90 talents are for quality of life.

[Orange Joe]

But this isn't about that, it's just about specifically how bad the level 90 talents are for quality of life.

Well then I need to take back my statement. I don't have a lvl 90 mage so I can't really speak on how the talents are.

[Ijoemomma]

Front page of MMOC shows a tweet from someone indicating the mage level 90 talents were a great design. This is misleading because when you actually check his tweet it is sarcasm.

It is unclear if the misunderstanding is just MMOC or if GC is now formulating a way out of addressing critical mage issues as"the temperature of the problem has cooled"

https://mobile.twitter.com/Ghostcraw...e=Ghostcrawler

I've tweeted at GC and highly recommend each of you do as well, in a respectful way, to assure him we are a very patient community but no, we don't suddenly like these talents even though we have had to endure the negative quality of life impact they've had.

You should read the tweet a couple down about speaking for the majority. Just because you don't like something, it doesn't mean the majority of us don't. I personally like the mage level 90 talents and I haven't heard any one complaining about them until now.

[Akraen]

Then you don't read much on any mage forum. Few times in history could I truly say a majority of players feel a certain way. This is one of those times.

[Libretto]

Really don't know why so much hate for the L90 talents. They're a good risk/reward balance and all three are a pretty big DPS increase. All three reward good play and punish bad play.

I think incanter's ward could go baseline in some manner and another L90 option of some sort could replace it though, as it's kind of weak.

[Terridon]

First off, he clearly picked up the sarcasm, and responded accordingly.
"@DanVladimirov Like many of our systems, there is certainly room for improvement on specific talents. The system overall is a keeper though." is pretty damn clear.
Second off: I got your sarcasm about mage community being patient XD

You should read the tweet a couple down about speaking for the majority. Just because you don't like something, it doesn't mean the majority of us don't. I personally like the mage level 90 talents and I haven't heard any one complaining about them until now.

To be fair, mages have whined so much about this, that there might actually be some truth to it. I don't know how you've missed out on this massive storm they've come up with. Actually think they're bad. Even those i know, that isn't whiners, actually dislike the 90 talents, so i do for the sake of mages hope that it get changed.

[Pyromanyac]

Apparently, I'm famous today. I did forget about that tweet and yes, GC picked up on the sarcasm in it. I realize it is the end of the expansion and overhauls are as likely as adding pink ponchos to the game, but playing a whole expansion with those QoL issues just grew on me in a bad way. I wanted to remind them that they can do infinitely better with talents.

[Deleted]

Really don't know why so much hate for the L90 talents. They're a good risk/reward balance and all three are a pretty big DPS increase. All three reward good play and punish bad play.

Not to turn this into a debate about Level 90s again, but since some of the readers here don't have a mage or don't raid with it, for the sake of clarity I'd like to disagree here. The talents aren't a good risk/reward balance at all. If that were the case, I would enjoy them a lot more. But they simply aren't. I remember having this very discussion way back in the day, and before the revamps of Invocation etc., and everyones favourite MVP was making the same statements. But the fact is: In their current iteration at least, they are not rewarding in any way. They are mandatory.

Don't get me wrong: I am a fan of the basic design idea behind RoP, and making mages chose their position carefully is a good thing. But the argument crumbles when you look at Invocation. Where is the risk? Where is the reward? It's a mandatory "press this once a minute" kind of thing that allows you to keep on doing your normal DPS. Almost the same goes for Rune: Good play with it rewards you with... doing your normal DPS. Both mechanics only impact your gameplay when you misplay, and then they become drastically punishing. That is horrible talent design, and unparalelled in other classes. Sadly, with the current talents, there is no way around it: If perfect play allowed you to do more than "average" DPS, mages would become to strong at a high level of play.

That is the issue with the talents: It's not a choice to adapt to a situation, it's a burden. Thats what the overall system (which I like) wasn't ever meant to do, and thats why they need to go.

[Deleted]

I'm realy content with the overall design of the talents. They make you think about what's best to take with you every bossfight. The glyphs are so-so, alot of them are mandatory and since you can only take 3, most of the time you can only switch 1.
The 90 tier is a complete joke tbh. There is nothing that can deny that. Anyone saying otherwise is nuts.

[Swizzle]

Please stop making me do things, I don't like doing things. I'm sick, and I'm tired.

First and last mod warning: stick to the original point of this thread or I shall lock it and be very angry with you and I will write you a letter letting you know how angry I am.

[gallamann]

You should read the tweet a couple down about speaking for the majority. Just because you don't like something, it doesn't mean the majority of us don't. I personally like the mage level 90 talents and I haven't heard any one complaining about them until now.

Jesus, you either just started playing a mage or have crawled out from a dark cave I was in MoP Beta, we told them how horrid level 90 talents were the moment we got to use them and there have been countless thread discussing how bad they are and how to replace them.

[Thelxi]

Jesus, you either just started playing a mage or have crawled out from a dark cave I was in MoP Beta, we told them how horrid level 90 talents were the moment we got to use them and there have been countless thread discussing how bad they are and how to replace them.

I knew they were horrible from the Blizzcon preview.

[Fim]

I worry that all the hatred of the lvl 90 talents will allow the devs to focus on just those for the next expansion, fix it and call it done for mages.

Personally, I thought ALL of the talent tiers were pretty dull from a PvE perspective. Most of the choices were determined strongly by specs, or were so weak that they weren't worth bothering with at all - yes you could take Blazing Speed as Fire, but PoM was so much better in most situations. Flameglow??? The number of encounters were lvl 45 matter are few and far between. Lvl 60 was a genuine choice, but I'd wager most mages ran around with Cauterize by default. The bomb tier frankly just reduced spec diversity - it allowed them to tone down Arcane's direct burst damage and move it to a DoT, while making Fire's schtick as the AoE spec less special (on top of nerfing the number of mobs you could spread Combust to). And then of course, there are the lvl 90s. I'd love to see talent diversity by patch for each mage spec. I'd bet it it's very sharply peaked. But hey our choices were "real" right?

The entire talent system needs work IMO - one too many clicks to change talents, so it ends up feeling more checklist-y that it needs to be. Why the heck do we still need a reagent to do it, and why do glyphs even exist outside to prop up a profession that was ill-conceived, and why don't we have more meta spells like "Mage Bomb" for each talent tier to help with macros?

[Vynestra]

There is not a lot of time to show the new wow stuff at blizzcon mapped out. I don't expect class specific things to really be featured. But I hope out of all the info we get, we get to see mage 90 talents overhauled.

[Polarthief]

Really don't know why so much hate for the L90 talents. They're a good risk/reward balance and all three are a pretty big DPS increase. All three reward good play and punish bad play.

This is actually false. Mages not using their L90 talents are around 87-88% of full power. Using Invo or RoP puts you at +15% (so around 103-104%). It's not an actual DPS increase like you would think.

When the L90 talents get abolished, Mages will be given a Damage increase across the board around 10% or so to be brought in line.

If this truly was a "Damage Increase", Mages would be #1 for every fight simply because we would be doing more than everyone else, but that's not how it works.

[Deleted]

This is actually false. Mages not using their L90 talents are around 87-88% of full power. Using Invo or RoP puts you at +15% (so around 103-104%). It's not an actual DPS increase like you would think.

When the L90 talents get abolished, Mages will be given a Damage increase across the board around 10% or so to be brought in line.

If this truly was a "Damage Increase", Mages would be #1 for every fight simply because we would be doing more than everyone else, but that's not how it works.

Try playing arcane with no RoP, invocation or incanter's. See if its 87% og full power.

[maizensh]

Personally, I thought ALL of the talent tiers were pretty dull from a PvE perspective. Most of the choices were determined strongly by specs, or were so weak that they weren't worth bothering with at all - yes you could take Blazing Speed as Fire, but PoM was so much better in most situations. Flameglow??? The number of encounters were lvl 45 matter are few and far between. Lvl 60 was a genuine choice, but I'd wager most mages ran around with Cauterize by default. The bomb tier frankly just reduced spec diversity - it allowed them to tone down Arcane's direct burst damage and move it to a DoT, while making Fire's schtick as the AoE spec less special (on top of nerfing the number of mobs you could spread Combust to). And then of course, there are the lvl 90s. I'd love to see talent diversity by patch for each mage spec. I'd bet it it's very sharply peaked. But hey our choices were "real" right?

Many of those talents are PvP oriented and have very little use in PvE. There's nothing wrong with that really, just as many PvE talents have very little use in PvP. While going with a separate PvP tree just sounds wrong to me, not sure why though. Same goes for glyphs.
All 3'd tier, IW and Cold Snap are mainly PvP talents. It's not that they don't have uses in PvE though, but they're not that important in that setting. Overall I can think of only one almost completely useless talent, and that's Flameglow. In PvE it's just useless trash, and in PvP its only advantage is that it cannot be dispelled.

Personally I feel that the last two tiers need a fix, but not because the talents are useless, it's just seems that very little thought was put into them and they have this clunky feel. The two exceptions are IW and Frost Bomb. IW is fine, a solid talent for PvP. And I do like Frost Bomb in PvE with frost mage a bit more than the dots.

[Deleted]

Yet not too late to completely revamp the Warlock L90 tier apparently.

For some shitty reason warlocks always have it better. Look at the looks they got versus the mage tier looks (in almost every expansion), they look sooo much better. Then they got portals... as a warlock.... PORTALS!! I mean, that should have been for the mages IMO. Warlocks have so much raid benefits its just not funny. They've gotten the fortitude buff from priests, they have the HS, they have portals, can off tank for short periods of time and they have a very powerful pet.
And mages got TW (together with 2 other classes who can give it) and thats it, our new spells can be nice, but i've lost allot of buffs because of it as well, like someone uses TW just as iv popped alter time. And dont get me started about those level 90 talents, they make me die a little inside every time i have to cast them.