In Meta will Cataclysim apply Doom?

[a C e]

I hope that cataclysm applies doom under meta form, I think thats the reason why it has a separate tool tip than affliction.
thoughts?

[Hatelocker]

I doubt it will apply doom. From what I read tooltip specifically states corruption but it wouldn't shock me and obviously we wont know until the PTR hits. However, what I am more interested in is whether Meta form increases the spells already potent damage sort of like it does infernal impact. Assuming cataclysm hits as hard as a chaosbolt to each target the meta form damage increase would make an already strong situational tool just stupidly OP. I can see standard practice just having 3x demo locks and 1x DK who grips up the adds then all 3 locks in demo form cast Cataclysm while the rest of the dps never even bother switching off the boss (if that's not enough dmg have all 3 locks spec into MF and have immo aura going as well).

[a C e]

I dont think it will hit as much as chaos bolts, the numbers on the tool tips are just numbers in my opinion. For example the hunter's ebola shot hits for 3k and it is a spamable AOE.

[Hatelocker]

The numbers will change but I think the concept behind the spell is a REALLY hard hitting spell with a decently long cast time on a 1 min CD (I though I read someone who went to blizzcon and played on the post item squish patch that 10k is like chaos bolt size numbers - my assumption is that spell hits for 10k to each target). If it didn't hit very hard relative to other spells then it would be completely useless. So, my assumption is that it is either the hardest or one of the hardest hitting spells as a DPET in the game post numbers balance (otherwise who the hell would take a AoE spell with a 1 min CD). So if you assume it hits really hard and then give that a big boost for Meta form it would simply have to go into the realm of being OP. Tooltip makes me think its targetable so you can cast even before the adds are clumped/spawn and so right after the DK does group them up they should take this massive spell dmg if timed right.

Note - went back and looked at the screenshot that was posted and it had affliction and demo as having the same tooltip regarding the fact that it applies corruption.

[Grubjuice]

The numbers will change but I think the concept behind the spell is a REALLY hard hitting spell with a decently long cast time on a 1 min CD (I though I read someone who went to blizzcon and played on the post item squish patch that 10k is like chaos bolt size numbers - my assumption is that spell hits for 10k to each target). If it didn't hit very hard relative to other spells then it would be completely useless. So, my assumption is that it is either the hardest or one of the hardest hitting spells as a DPET in the game post numbers balance (otherwise who the hell would take a AoE spell with a 1 min CD). So if you assume it hits really hard and then give that a big boost for Meta form it would simply have to go into the realm of being OP. Tooltip makes me think its targetable so you can cast even before the adds are clumped/spawn and so right after the DK does group them up they should take this massive spell dmg if timed right.

Note - went back and looked at the screenshot that was posted and it had affliction and demo as having the same tooltip regarding the fact that it applies corruption.

As Jessicka pointed out in another thread, the cataclysm talent ought to be competeing with Mannaroth's fury and some other talent (splash damage perhaps?) in a devoted AoE tier. it's out of place next to Chaotic Resources and Demonic Servitude.

[Soulzar]

I think it very well could apply doom while in meta. When you are in meta you literally no longer have corruption in your spell book. While I understand Blizz has the technical ability to use the spell ID, I would not be shocked in the least if while in Meta it applied doom.

What I suspect, is it will initially apply doom, and will later be "fixed" to use corruption regardless of stance.

[jaymzkerten]

The reason it has a separate tooltip is because they want to get away from having a tooltip that includes all specs; they want it to update the tooltip based on what spec you currently are.

I seriously doubt it will apply doom because it would need to apply something similar for afflic/destro. As it is it applies corruption for afflic/demo and immolate for destro, which would put them all about even. Applying doom instead of corruption would make this talent pull way ahead for demo, and for that matter it would make it mandatory that you cast this spell *only* while in meta form.

[Zargul]

The reason it has a separate tooltip is because they want to get away from having a tooltip that includes all specs; they want it to update the tooltip based on what spec you currently are.

I seriously doubt it will apply doom because it would need to apply something similar for afflic/destro. As it is it applies corruption for afflic/demo and immolate for destro, which would put them all about even. Applying doom instead of corruption would make this talent pull way ahead for demo, and for that matter it would make it mandatory that you cast this spell *only* while in meta form.

I think having a giant AoE nuke on a 1 minute cooldown pretty much necessitates casting only in metamorphosis anyway. Think about what we do with Hand of Gul'dan right now. Come to think of it, this talent seems like it'd do more damage for Demonology than the other two specializations because of the way our masteries work (assuming it benefits from the Metamorphosis damage bonus).

[Netherspark]

AOE Doom would be ridiculously overpowered, even on its own.

[Zargul]

AOE Doom would be ridiculously overpowered, even on its own.

I'm not sure that it would be overpowered.

On average, Doom may tick once or twice before a pack of mobs intended to be AoE-killed is dead anyway.

If you cast Cataclysm on a pack of relatively weak mobs that need to die ASAP, the dot component is somewhat irrelevant- and even more irrelevant in the case of Doom (because it takes longer to deal damage).

If you are using Cataclysm on a group of stacked mobs for 'cleaving' or prolonged fighting, you probably would've tab-Doomed them anyway. So basically, you're using a cooldown nuke you would've probably used anyway, and in this case it saves you a couple GCDs max, in exchange for a cast time on Cataclysm itself.

This seems pretty reasonable for a talent to me.

[Deleted]

seriously, I don´t think doom will stay meta-only in WoD. I guess they´re removing the whole stance dancing thing, including HoG snapshotting

[Jessicka]

seriously, I don´t think doom will stay meta-only in WoD. I guess they´re removing the whole stance dancing thing, including HoG snapshotting

It won't snapshot, but will it update dynamically with the Meta bonus? Or will it work like Corruption and not update? Same for Doom, will that lose power when you drop out of Meta?

I am hoping Corruption and Doom will become separate buttons again though regardless.

As for Cataclysm, to get back on topic. I just think it's misplaced in the tree and on the whole way too tight a niche ability to be worth taking much of the time. I guess if it hits hard enough to be worthwhile single target, then maybe, if it can compete with the alternatives. Other than that, I think it's better trading places with Archimonde's Darkness in the talent tree.

[Deleted]

It won't snapshot, but will it update dynamically with the Meta bonus? Or will it work like Corruption and not update? Same for Doom, will that lose power when you drop out of Meta?

I wasn´t talking about the dot snapshotting removal, more about removing the meta benefit of HoG in generel. the only thing they would have to do is make it like grimoire of sacrifice --> no generel damage buff, just buffing touch of chaos, soulfire, chaoswave, immolationaura and voidray (+doom, if it stays meta only) while meta is up. --> no HoG stance dancing anymore

[a C e]

Will Doom be weaker if we leave meta form ? then I guess the chaotic energies might be a good talent after all, If you have enough mastery to reach above breakeven

[sasofrass]

Will Doom be weaker if we leave meta form ? then I guess the chaotic energies might be a good talent after all, If you have enough mastery to reach above breakeven

Since it is dynamic, it should theoretically be weaker when you leave meta form. Everything should be weaker outside meta form.

[Grubjuice]

I am hoping Corruption and Doom will become separate buttons again though regardless.

oh god yes, me too!

also to the OP I feel pretty confident assuming Cata will *not* apply doom, ever.

- - - Updated - - -

Since it is dynamic, it should theoretically be weaker when you leave meta form. Everything should be weaker outside meta form.

Mastery could be redesigned to increased the damage of DF-gaining spell by 8%. and increases the damage of DF-costing spells by 24% and then whether you are in meta or not would be irrelevent to DoTs. So they could make Corruption and Doom separate and castable in any form...

You still need to be in Meta to use ToC, Meta-Soulfire, Carrion Swarm, Immolation Aura, and Chaos Wave vis-a-vis their caster form equivalants; but Doom will always benefit from mastery by 24% and corruption always by 8%. that would eliminate the need to stance dance around DoTs and allow stance switching only for Nukes and AoE!

[Hatelocker]

Since it is dynamic, it should theoretically be weaker when you leave meta form. Everything should be weaker outside meta form.

I can see now where there is an addon that tracks exactly when doom will tick. So, instead of meta weaving for 2x HoG stacks we will now be meta weaving for Doom ticks. That should be a boat load of fun.

[Jessicka]

I can see now where there is an addon that tracks exactly when doom will tick. So, instead of meta weaving for 2x HoG stacks we will now be meta weaving for Doom ticks. That should be a boat load of fun.

I would imagine it's actually already coded the same way as Corruption and applies the appropriate Mastery bonus regardless of stance it's cast/refreshed in.

[a C e]

I can see now where there is an addon that tracks exactly when doom will tick. So, instead of meta weaving for 2x HoG stacks we will now be meta weaving for Doom ticks. That should be a boat load of fun.

Lol this will be fun :/

[Zinnin]

That would make me cry, a lot.

I am pretty sure I could see it happening for at least a few builds in beta WoD though, I doubt something like that would go live however.