Is WoW always going to be like this?

[Theendgamelv3]

This statement would be fine and dandy if this wasn't a TEAM game.

Find a guild that wants a challenge. If you can't find one that meets your requirements in a game of millions then....wow.

[Chrysia]

You raise a strong point here, and in my opinion again, those players gave the new players something to aspire to. Some sort of motivation to better themselves. I feel now the content is already stale to the new guys completing easy difficulty and instead of trying to better themselves and get to the peak, they hang up the ropes and wait for something fresh since they already have the same gear and killed the same bosses.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game, won't try to argue its success as a business model... its clearly set an industry standard. But imagine if the game still had an unreachable summit to aspire to. Would it in turn create a player base that wasn't as apathetic? Would players play harder and try to improve to get to complete it? The world may never know.

I do still feel, however, there are a certain concrete base of fundamentals and etiquette that are not getting instilled in new players at the same pace that it did when those unattainable goals were in place.

There still is that same pinnacle to aspire to: the higher tier of content that can prove you really know how to coordinate and play. That apathetic player base you so deride has always been there. They just have more visible things to do now.

[MoanaLisa]

You raise a strong point here, and in my opinion again, those players gave the new players something to aspire to.

People don't aspire for years to do content that they never get to see when it's current. After a while they quit. The entire business of everyone aspiring to do hard raids is BS at this point and likely has been for years.

[muradmode]

You guys really feel that a few more stats raises the same motivation out of a player than an entire instance full of bad assery?

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Can you finish all the pve content and get access to all non rated pvp without having chat enabled? Yes, is it hard? No. Is it harder than it is if you had chat enabled? Yes, but not by a lot. Is this going to change? No, blizzard needs the numbers of "casuals" (doesn't mean bad) to fill their pockets.

Problems with wow at the moment.
- Time investment = reward. This isn't happening, you can play 2hrs a week and still be able to see "all content" in the same time someone playing 5hrs a day would.
- "Skill" or knowledge of your class is not required at all and there's nothing to "push" new players to get better because the reward (whatever you're doing) is the same weather you're afk or mastu*bating or just activated rightclick. THIS HAS TO CHANGE!
- Blizzard let this happen, community demanded it to happen and now it's just a spiral that's going to end up in what I can only assume is the "death" of wow in a couple years.

Look, who's gonna keep playing and more importantly for blizzard, paying for the game month after month if they finish all content there is in roughly 1-2 months.

Now is this going to change in WoD? No.
The incoming 20man only mythic mode will bring back some prestige to raiding but as long as LFR stays in it's current model (just show up and do basically more than rightclicking) players will not change. I've said ever since LFR came about in DS that they need to track some sort of GCD usage, cds used to mitigate damage and actually promote good play with better rewards. Say you're in LFR and doing Iron Juggernaut, if you use a personal CD or a healthstone when you get the dot on you then you gain a bonus to your loot roll, if you have acceptable use of your global cooldowns you get a bonus and so on. Also in the same idea if you don't use acceptable number of GCDs you get a lower chance for loot, this has nothing to do with dps or hps or if you're a good tank with 90% uptime on your mitigation ability. It simply shows you've been there and reacted to some raid mechanics and that should be awarded. The better you do the higher chance for loot you have. Say you're a heroic raider from the past and you're coming back to the game, you avoid everything and outperform people with 50 ilvls higher gear than you and you're forced to stick to LFR until your gear is acceptable for Flex or a low ranked pve guild. The fabled carrot on the stick should be for players to get out of LFR and into raiding (which LFR is NOT!) and the best way to make the carrot juicier is to give better chances for loot for players that are of such quality that they can (and should) do higher content. If then people who have no interest in raiding properly still find some ways to get "skilled" in FLR and get decked out in full LFR gear after 3 weeks then that's not a problem.

In the end LFR is just a gear grab, nobody serious about gaming can honestly claim that LFR is something of a challenge to them. In fact the only challenge from LFR is how many afkers and baddies you can carry. My guild did ToT LFR as a full 25m guild group after we killed Ra Den, not a single healer and nobody died. Nobody, simply healthstones and personal selfheals and whatnot was enough to keep us alive the entire LFR session, LFR isn't hard, it's not pretending to be hard. It's simply there to feed the "give me" mentality so many players have and it's a shame that blizzard slaughters their own game with these new additions.

[Chrysia]

You guys really feel that a few more stats raises the same motivation out of a player than an entire instance full of bad assery?

No, not the stats. The knowledge that they really coordinated and achieved something is the thing that inspires heroic raiders. It's what used to inspire all raiders. A lot of people just don't have the time or skill to be that. So Blizzard gave them something to do that helped justify the massive amount of resources pumped into raids.

[Theendgamelv3]

And most of players today don't ever bother to raid anything else beyond LFR. Why ? Because they've already seen 90% of it. What for? 150 more agi/int/str? A different color of spaulders? Who cares? I've already got epic gear, so it doesn't matter, i'm not going to go apply to a progression guild and improve myself just for 150 more stats. - it sounds silly but that's the reality of it.

Yet despite the sub drops Blizzard themselves said more people are raiding than ever. IMO a lot of people who aspire to do the hard stuff will do it regardless there is or isn't a LFR. If it is too hard, a lot of people won't even attempt it or attempt the easy stuff. Blizzard doesn't force people to go take the easy route, they give them a choice. Players need to stop blaming Blizzard due to the fact Blizzard doesn't force LFR on players. People talk about there is no community there is socializing, YET some how there are players who find other like minded players in the game of millions doing the hardest content in the game. There had to me some socializing somewhere. Stop complaining, look for a guild with like minded individuals who want to take on hard content. LFR and all the other casual stuff hasn't stopped Paragon, Blood Legion, Method, etc. from doing the hardest content in the game.

[cyndallis]

Same old arguments... with less that 7% of players even killing a heroic boss can you just be happy that they still support Heroic raids at all?

• You are not forced to do LFR.
• If you chose to do LFR and spoiled potential encounters for yourself - it's on you.
• The majority of people completing LFR would not suddenly start raiding if it was removed - they would just unsubscribe as they were doing before the feature was implemented.

[MW4Life]

Can anyone help me? After I saw this video it got me worried....because I was thinking of coming back in Draenor...but if things will be like this I really don't know anymore.

VIDEO: w.youtube.com/watch?v=GFWh9aY4pas

min 3:35 (may the trolling begin)

Are things this bad? Can ANY player no matter how bad they are be able to do 100% of the content (Heroic modes not included).

I don't play the game for a long time because how things were in Pandaria. Easy accessibility and easy content for everyone removed my will for progression and willpower to continue playing. That and a community that was getting more antisocial by the second with Instanced content being the top priority at the moment. No more Socializing in the open World ( the Isle of Thunder made hoping for more content with pvp encounters and social gameplay in the world....)

Can someone plz get my hopes up for Draenor? :C

Yes, WoW will be like this till the end. A scrub's $15 is just as green as a bleeding edge raider's. People like MikePreach and others on these boards can make all the arguments in the world, but all that's important is bringing in the money in an MMO industry where the demographic is changing.

MMOs are no longer the endeavor of the hardcore "basement dweller" who if pro at only one thing that one thing was MMO gaming. Now MMOs have become somewhat trendy/mainstream, so the ppl who years ago teased folks who engaged in this hobby now want to get in on the action. So gone are the days where you had to be adept at this game to see the best bosses... The guy who has a life with his $7,000 Alienware laptop, his supermodel wife, playing from his $20,000,000 Malibu mansion and getting gibbed in raids due to "wife aggro" (lol, riiiiight), gets to see Lei Shen and Garrosh as well!

I guess to make some feel better about themselves, look at some other old school games, say Doom. LFR players essentially set the game to "I'm too young to die" or "Hey, not too rough," whereas others prefer "Ultra-Violence" and "Nightmare" modes. Alas, as a largely social game, WoW is a bit different than an old game such as that. One gets a sense of accomplishment from downing the latest and greatest bosses, and like to show that off. It used to be like "Wow... you killed Illidan. Nice." Now it's like "Meh, me too." It's almost as if LFR takes away the, I dunno, "magicalness" of having seen content that should, IMO, be reserved as a reward for the best players. It goes beyond GEAR.... for me it's actually seeing the bosses, being able to say "I killed this guy."

[StationaryHawk]

If you honestly believe that completing LFR is completing 99% of the game's content, then yeah, that's how it's going to be. However, not everyone believes that seeing a certain graphic on your screen or having armour of a certain colour is completing 99% of the game's content.

[Deleted]

Yet despite the sub drops Blizzard themselves said more people are raiding than ever. IMO a lot of people who aspire to do the hard stuff will do it regardless there is or isn't a LFR. If it is too hard, a lot of people won't even attempt it or attempt the easy stuff. Blizzard doesn't force people to go take the easy route, they give them a choice. Players need to stop blaming Blizzard due to the fact Blizzard doesn't force LFR on players. People talk about there is no community there is socializing, YET some how there are players who find other like minded players in the game of millions doing the hardest content in the game. There had to me some socializing somewhere. Stop complaining, look for a guild with like minded individuals who want to take on hard content. LFR and all the other casual stuff hasn't stopped Paragon, Blood Legion, Method, etc. from doing the hardest content in the game.

People will always choose the easy way. And I mean ALWAYS with caps and bold, if the chance/option is given to the player base.

Ex:
1- Looking for Group tool: Everyone uses it to level up. No one is doing quest to level up. Resulting in a empty world
2- 25 man drops = 10 man drops. Results: The number of 25 man guilds dropped DRAMITICLY and are now near to extinct.

Its just human nature man. If an easy route is presented to us WE will always follow it 99% of the people.
Blizzard gave us the option. Is just normal to expect this behavior from people.

"You cant blame the 7 year old kid for crashing and breaking his leg on a bike...You blame the adult that gave him the bike to ride" xD

[Chrysia]

People will always choose the easy way. And I mean ALWAYS with caps and bold, if the chance/option is given to the player base.

Ex:
1- Looking for Group tool: Everyone uses it to level up. No one is doing quest to level up. Resulting in a empty world
2- 25 man drops = 10 man drops. Results: The number of 25 man guilds dropped DRAMITICLY and are now near to extinct.

Its just human nature man. If an easy route is presented to us WE will always follow it 99% of the people.
Blizzard gave us the option. Is just normal to expect this behavior from people.

"You cant blame the 7 year old kid for crashing and braking his leg on a bike...You blame the adult that gave him the bike to ride" xD

Except they don't. You still have bleeding edge raiders pushing for world firsts. You still have raid groups slogging through normals for months with their friends. People don't always choose the easy way. People often like challenge.

[DrIvoRobotnik]

Dang...I knew things were really bad, but seeing things cataloged like this; dang this is depressing.

[StationaryHawk]

1- Looking for Group tool: Everyone uses it to level up. No one is doing quest to level up. Resulting in a empty world

I still quest to level up. Typically, I make an effort to only do each dungeon no more than once.

[Sicarius87]

I don't see why it would seeing as it's completely correct.

being full LFR geared does not make you full epic. It makes you baby full epic. Equivalent of full wrath heroic blues.

[Terridon]

I don't care! Are you telling me a player that does NOTHING can complete 99% of content in this game? And there are still no World social interaction? Did Blizzard said anything to counter this in the future? Im not that well informed about things atm....

Don't really see the problem. If you think lfr is the full content. Fine, but then you're probably not a player that look for real challenge, because you obviously have no idea about the difference.
Lfr is made for all to go through. You have always been able to do that. Heck. I've even been that guy in raids/instances back in the time. Even in the oh so hard tbc instances, because i was social enough for people to enjoy my company :P
No need for you to return though, if that's what matters to you. That you want only a few% to see the things. In the end it just means less money to make it good, and you end up with dragon soul.

[Chrysia]

being full LFR geared does not make you full epic. It makes you baby full epic. Equivalent of full wrath heroic blues.

Or full ICC heroics epiced. That's probably a better comparison.

[GrinnersGrin]

How is AFK'ing in a few LFR's counted as seeing "100% of the content".

LFR is a tiny part of the endgame PvE content, which itself is a smaller part of the overall game.

If you're gonna troll at-least make it believable.

[ejpaints]

OP I regret to inform you that LFR geared, LFR "progression" if you can call it that, and pretty much anything LFR related at all means absolutely nothing to anyone. Yea they can stand there and see the boss, but they don't experience the real fights, and the "epics" you refer to should probably be a different color b/c they're anything but epic. Compare them to heroic dungeon epics pre expansions if you like, that might be a good comparison.

Nothing about what you mention is "actual end game". It's giving people a visual on their screen so they can say they saw something. But, in reality anyone who has ran the actual raid can tell you, they are far from experiencing the real deal. But, that's ok, b/c it means they aren't clogging up the pug system as bad for those of us who actually want to kill the real deal.

I do not care that people can go "see the content" in LFR. It affects me none. Let the majority, and yes they are the majority of the playerbase have what they want so those of us who actually want to do the harder content can do it with a little bit of peace.

[Darkfriend]

Did you saw the video from min 3:35.......he did absolutely NOTHING and was always the DPS with the most damage taken...in the end he was full epic and seen 100% of the content in the game.

This game was once a symbol of respect and considered the ultimate challenge/ social experience and the best design in the gaming industry...and now this is the wow we have?

So in other words you have no clue how WoW actually works.

Full epics doesn't mean jack. Skill is what matters, and ilvl means far more than color anyway.