A great MMO cannot happen without a subscription and is a major reason WoW's on top

[Deadite]

No one is blind yes WoW sits as the number 1 sub MMO but thats like saying your are the most strong person in a room by yourself. It dose not matter.

If you want to be pernickety then they are no where near the number one spot. There are a few Asian mmos that sit at the 20 million mark. If you use Blizzards own definition of sunscriber....


Subscriber Definition: World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees' territories are defined along the same rules.

While it may be absurd to call them subscribers for playing a free game the most prevalent way of playing mmos in Asia is in game rooms. By Blizzards own definitions and just to wind up BenBros they can be called Subscribers. Thus to name Age of Wushu that has 20 million players in China alone it is the King and has been for several years. If Blizzard counts them as sub i guess any game can. Amiright?

[Stir]

You neglected to mention that the PVP in SW:TOR is leagues beyond WoW in balance, variety and overall enjoyability.

I did that. But that's also mostly because the SW:TOR version of 'the PvP-stat' is better implemented; it does more things, and effectively separates PvE and PvP much more effectively. Expertise is better implemented than Resilience.

[Awe]

Answer the calls I make instead of inventing things: Blizzard is the only one left standing in the multi million subscription market.

Why ? According to you it is because people are stupid.

According to me: it is because that MMO competition sucked BIG time.


As stated, it is NO coincidence that Blizzard dominates every market segment they enter.

You say because people are stupid.

I say because people are smart and see the differences between a Blizzard product and the "would be" ones.

----

The end result is that you are frustrated and roam these forums to put out all the negativity you can find.

I am the one pointing out obvious successes and that frustrates the usual hating crowd.

Nothing more to see really.

The only thing that frustrates me here is not WoW, not Blizzard. It's you Benbos (even though I am almost certain you are an elaborate troll and you actually feed on such "discussions"). Why should I give a rats ass about the fact that WoW is dominating the subscriber market? It's good for them but that does not change another fact which is that I prefer to play some other MMO at this point in time. Becouse I have more fun while doing so.

The fact that I prefer to play something else does not mean that I am stupid (which is what you keep suggesting, the fact that I don't play WoW stems from my lack of common sense and logic and intelligence and whatever else, right?). Nor does that it mean that WoW is garbage. Same as the fact that WoW has more players does not mean other MMO games are garbage. You go even more than that, you judge games merely by the revenue they generate. Which for example allows you to downplay LoL (becouse who cares if so many people play it if it makes less money, right?). You know what, Volkswagen Group makes almost triple the revenue of BMW AG, hey, this must mean that BMW cars are garbage!

But hey, I am rather willing to play some new MMO games for a while instead of feeding Blizzard my money for years and years for playing the same thing over and over. I could guarantee you that if Blizzard would release Titan I would preorder and play the *** out of it. But Blizzard got lazy and satisfied with $$$ stream and will continue to milk the same thing made in 2004 for as long as the pile of subs wont collapse. That is the only thing I might be bitter about becouse I would like to play something new from the Blizzard stable (MMO). But hey, if they dont want to do that I can always relocate my time into other MMO games (sub, F2P, B2P, whatever) and have more fun there simply becouse they are new. Does this make me a Blizzard hater? Becouse I dont want to spend 150 euro per year for playing something that I already spent years and years playing? Stagnation is bad. And WoW is stagnant. But hey, if you still enjoy it, feel free to play it, not my business what you enjoy. But apprently you make your business from what other people like to play (God forbid if it's not WoW!). And you keep insulting them and the games they play simply becouse they dare to play them. Oh right, I almost forgot that I am trying to discuss with a troll. Carry on...

[Deleted]

You neglected to mention that the PVP in SW:TOR is leagues beyond WoW in balance, variety and overall enjoyability.

Couln't have said it better, the enjoyability part being the biggest difference.

[Deleted]

Personally I would not really complain about anything wow related, but for now the only thing left to do in wow is a new pvp season. For those that don't pvp there is not really alot to do, you could always argue that you can do pet battles or farm achievements and transmorg gear, but if you don't fancy those things there is nothing else.

My guild still raids, but if it takes another 6 months we wont much longer, SOO is getting boring and tedious, there is not much else to do besides that. I would love to have an event or even a small bit in beta, like 2 lvls and a dungeon. Even a new couple of dungeons or a new diffeculty in dungeons would be something.

[Razorice]

I don't agree with the OP. MMO doesn't need a sub to be "good". I find GW2 and Rift to be good and they don't have a sub button.

[Ranker]

I hope you understand that by playing on a private server you're basically throwing dirt in the faces of these "talented people" whose "games are masterpieces" because you aren't acknowledging their hard work by stealing their copyrighted material.

OT: I too believe that to have a successful game you need to have it be sub-based. It prevents the game from being micro-transaction hell and pay to win. WoW is starting down that terrible path of P2W though I'm afraid...

Rofl, you mean he isn't paying tons of money to some CEO to buy a mansion or a huge boat? Oh no the horror....

[Arewn]

Nope. Blizzard simply "gets" what people want better than the competition. GW2 tried to launch without LFD claiming it's unnecessary and look how that turned out.

As long as the other games are trying to be different from WoW just to be different and hoping to catch the vocal minority of forum twits without actually doing their homework or thinking for a moment why some change was made into WoW they are all doomed to fail. Wildstar's 40 man raids is perfect example of that.

Nope. Because I said so and offer nothing to substantiate what I said.

Though if we go back to the the real world and have this conversation, you'll notice there's a bunch of successful MMOs that aren't WoW, successfully implementing ideas *gasp* without Blizzard's permission. And people have preferences that don't match your own, or what Blizzard thinks, or what Blizzard delivers, so (surprise surprise) people go play these other MMOs. WoW isn't the end-all to MMORPGs, standing as some sort of pristine example that all others must study or follow (as the tone of your post seems to suggest), and losing half it's subs says something about Blizzard "simply getting it".

Good for you if Blizzard "gets" what YOU want, and what current WoW players want, but there are still several million gamers who's interests they don't represent.
And the tone of "WoW did it first/is the leader" is quite odd considering WoW is built on the idea of "take the good things other games do and put them in our game".

GW2 launched and survived just fine without LFD, and those in the community who wanted an LFD were resourceful enough to make alternatives. Ever heard of social engineering? Try thinking about it in this context.
Even a year later when they did add a form of LF, it was still significantly different from WoW's (it's a glorified LFG channel, rather then an automated system that pairs you and teleports you into the dungeon and back).
Personally, I have friends and joined a large guild so I don't really use the LF tool even now that it's been added. Arena Net was right, their game doesn't need a WoW-style LFG tool, it's not hard to find groups in GW2.
I don't see how Wildstar's 40man raids are a perfect example of anything other then using pre-established, familiar sizes for the sake of facilitating migration. Perhaps I'm missing something though, since I haven't followed Wildstar's development that much.

- - - Updated - - -

Answer the calls I make instead of inventing things: Blizzard is the only one left standing in the multi million subscription market.

Why ? According to you it is because people are stupid.

That's like being happy you own all the stocks in a falling market.
"Yay! we won out against all the other subscription MMOs in a market where subscription MMOs (our own included) are dying! we're so good *pats own back*"

[fixx]

Nope. Because I said so and offer nothing to substantiate what I said.

It's your job to substatiate first the braindead claims that all WoW players suffer from addiction and nostalgia. Until that happens, all you deserve is a nope.

Though if we go back to the the real world and have this conversation, you'll notice there's a bunch of successful MMOs that aren't WoW, successfully implementing ideas *gasp* without Blizzard's permission.

Successfull if your yardstick is '"not closed yet" (except Warhammer which did close), but remember how all of those launched as WoW killers and are now barely managing? AoC, Warhammer, Aion, Rift, SWToR, FFXIV and GW2 were all touted as WoW killers, and today their combined playerbase is less than WoW, so I wouldn't really call it a success.

Good for you if Blizzard "gets" what YOU want, and what current WoW players want, but there are still several million gamers who's interests they don't represent.

I think we can safely say they actually do understand what the majority wants considering they actually do have the majority of all MMORPG subscribers. You need to look at these things bit more objectively than from the "addicted" "nostalgia" hater point of view and you might actually understand how the world works.

GW2 launched and survived just fine without LFD, and those in the community who wanted an LFD were resourceful enough to make alternatives.

GW2 launched without LFD on purpose claiming it wasn't necessary or what the players want. They were forced to implement it because players proved the game is worse without it. Listening to vocal minority is a bad thing that all companies apparently need to learn the hard way, like Blizzard failed with early Cata PvE difficulty.

[Deleted]

There is really not much difference in quality with GW2 and wow, its the fact that wow has 8 years of content before GW2 came and has a unique place in human culture. To be attracted to WoW for a 1st mmorpg and stay with it is nothing unusual. If GW2 had the income of what blizzard gets from the pet/mount/whatever shop they could do a serious amount of content. And most of all, people after wow are not used to new mmorpgs because there is no content at first, so they lose interest before it comes up.

Even if you do not agree with me, one thing is damn sure- the monthly sub and blizz shop income is too high to justify the lack of developement. But hey, they are the guys that have the monopoly on sub-based mmos.

[BenBos]

If you want to be pernickety then they are no where near the number one spot. There are a few Asian mmos that sit at the 20 million mark. If you use Blizzards own definition of sunscriber....


Subscriber Definition: World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees' territories are defined along the same rules.

While it may be absurd to call them subscribers for playing a free game the most prevalent way of playing mmos in Asia is in game rooms. By Blizzards own definitions and just to wind up BenBros they can be called Subscribers. Thus to name Age of Wushu that has 20 million players in China alone it is the King and has been for several years. If Blizzard counts them as sub i guess any game can. Amiright?

No you are wrong. WoW in China is paid, the game you cited is complete free to play. No wonder WoW had a hard time over there. You pay special WoW time cards to play WoW as an extra.

You know when complete buy to play games like GW2 or free to play games like SWTOR don't come even near to WoW in activity and players/servers, you simply KNOW there is a difference. I let you find out that difference.

And btw your enigma is not solved by saying WoW players are dumb.

The truth of the matter is: it costs 180 dollars per year in the West to play it and it still dwarfs free to play MMO's over here.

People are smart. They pay for the better product with ease. People vote with their wallets.

That's why WoW still dwarfs the others. In fact those others had to abandon subs to even get players in.

Duh ...

[PaladinBash]

I'm paying to keep filthy peasants out of my game. I don't care if the game has less options, less features, less progression, less content in general, just so long as it keeps dirty plebs that hate spending any money on stuff out of the game. They are always the worst and most irritating people in a game and I'm glad they're not in it. If you're too poor because you're bad at life or something, well then that's your own fault and I don't want your kind in my games. I don't want your kind anywhere around me, actually, but especially NOT when I play my games.

I think they should increase the price and drive out the casuals and baddies who still whinge and complain about the game. They shouldn't try to make the game better so that more people like it, they should cut down on what it has or make it cost more so that people who don't like it just give up and get out of my game. They are the ones that make it worse by being shit in ability or attitude and I put this down to either being poor or thinking like a poor 'person'. Poor people are terrible at everything, that's why they're poor. They don't belong in quality games like WoW and have been proven to make it worse and worse because Blizzard has to cater to them to get moneys when they could just charge people more money to keep baddies out of the game. That works really well for companies like Games Workshop who charge an obscene amount of money just to play the game at all and it keeps out the worst kind of peasants that ruin all games and make their communities terrible.

[Nalam the Venom]

Swtor has sib and FTP but how many players do they have?

[Schroedinger]

Never heard of someone quitting a game and then dying as a result.

The fact you never heard something doesn't makes it non-existent.

As playing is nothing as much physical, its addiction is slightly different as the usual ones. Take gambling as example, or people dying while playing games and forgetting to eat and drink. A game can be as addictive as anything else providing positive hormonal stimulation for the brain. Wow provides environment that more or less support addictive behavior (rewarding repeatedly done tasks as nausea as example) and is a risk for people prone to such behavior.

[Deleted]

WoW is now what Fender is to instruments- something everyone is drawn to from start due to being the "go to" brand, before checking what the competition offers. And a lot of times it just doesent do the job right, but hey, its a Fender.

[BenBos]

Swtor has sib and FTP but how many players do they have?

They went from 223 servers at launch to 17 servers worldwide.

So a good estimate would be 250k+ regular players. Rift has 15 servers (coming from 99 severs at launch).

GW2 triples that number to 53 servers or around 600/700k+ regular players.

It's odd to some that a game which costs 180 dollars per year to connect to the servers like WoW would have far more western players than all these free things combined.

Not to me. Because WoW is the standard reference. If you decide to play an MMORPG, you better play the reference.

[melodramocracy]

Never heard of someone quitting a game and then dying as a result.

Lethality of withdrawal is not some requirement for the classification of an addiction.

You're welcome.

[Huehuecoyotl]

They went from 223 servers at launch to 17 servers worldwide.

So a good estimate would be 250k+ regular players. Rift has 15 servers (coming from 99 severs at launch).

GW2 triples that number to 53 servers or around 600/700k+ regular players.

It's odd to some that a game which costs 180 dollars per year to connect to the servers like WoW would have far more western players than all these free things combined.

Not to me. Because WoW is the standard reference. If you decide to play an MMORPG, you better play the reference.

700k players, no subscription, updates every two weeks.

7 million players, subscription, no update for a year.

If you decide to pay an MMORPG you better pay the reference.

[Arewn]

It's your job to substatiate first the braindead claims that all WoW players suffer from addiction and nostalgia. Until that happens, all you deserve is a nope.

Successfull if your yardstick is '"not closed yet" (except Warhammer which did close), but remember how all of those launched as WoW killers and are now barely managing? AoC, Warhammer, Aion, Rift, SWToR, FFXIV and GW2 were all touted as WoW killers, and today their combined playerbase is less than WoW, so I wouldn't really call it a success.

I think we can safely say they actually do understand what the majority wants considering they actually do have the majority of all MMORPG subscribers. You need to look at these things bit more objectively than from the "addicted" "nostalgia" hater point of view and you might actually understand how the world works.

GW2 launched without LFD on purpose claiming it wasn't necessary or what the players want. They were forced to implement it because players proved the game is worse without it. Listening to vocal minority is a bad thing that all companies apparently need to learn the hard way, like Blizzard failed with early Cata PvE difficulty.

lol
Really... just lol. Not much more to say then that at this point. Have fun playing your clearly inferior and over price product if you think WoW's all that. I'll enjoy the rest of the (MMO) world in the meantime as they continue to advance and put out better stuff.

I'll clear up one point though, I only said nostalgia was a powerful and active force (as it is in gaming in general). So pull in the reins on your "hater" claims a bit.

[Durandro]

lol
Really... just lol. Not much more to say then that at this point. Have fun playing your clearly inferior and over price product if you think WoW's all that. I'll enjoy the rest of the (MMO) world in the meantime as they continue to advance and put out better stuff.

I'll clear up one point though, I only said nostalgia was a powerful and active force (as it is in gaming in general). So pull in the reins on your "hater" claims a bit.

Considering you're hanging around still proclaiming how bad WoW is, I think you're the one with issues. Denial of your own addictions, I'm guessing.

Either way, bye and we won't miss you.

- - - Updated - - -

700k players, no subscription, updates every two weeks.

7 million players, subscription, no update for a year.

If you decide to pay an MMORPG you better pay the reference.

I'd rather have good and unique new content every 6 months (seriously, its not been a year yet, stop crying) then shallow content every two weeks that doesn't even get used for long.