Rogue quest OP?

[Pantalaimon]

Just beat a quest rogue with my patron warrior, and didn't even need the patrons. Guess Pyromancer and Sleep with the Fishes board clears were good, who woulda thought? :P

Quest rogue - very 'OP' - many rogue tears - "Wow!"

[Kronik85]

IIRC, only if played after Crystal Core? I think if it's on the board and you play CC it becomes a 5/5. But maybe I'm misremembering.

Just tested and if you have Van Cleef on board when you cast Crystal Core his stats will be set to 5/5. If you play him after Crystal Core then he's a 5/5 base and will gain +2/+2 as normal, think I got to 25/25 yesterday which brought a smile lol.

[Mormolyce]

Just tested and if you have Van Cleef on board when you cast Crystal Core his stats will be set to 5/5. If you play him after Crystal Core then he's a 5/5 base and will gain +2/+2 as normal, think I got to 25/25 yesterday which brought a smile lol.

Yeah I thought that was it.

[Tenris]

Kill them before they can kill you, or dirty rat because it completely fucks them over, saw it in one of Kripps vids about the taunt warrior quest.

[Jwowwxoxo]

It's a joke that I have to use a copied deck in order to counter this plague that's all over the ladder, its easily the most broken deck in the history of the game. You literally cannot create your own deck without having to just flop when this deck hits a perfect curve, which is pretty frequently. I don't like having to just copy/paste broken ass decks in order to do well, its the reason you see the exact same decks in every single tournament.

[Rennadrel]

If Crystal Core is played by turn 5, it's pretty much just a matter of having an established board before it gets played. If you have zero board and haven't cleared off your opponents minions when it's played, you are screwed.

[Pantalaimon]

It's a joke that I have to use a copied deck in order to counter this plague that's all over the ladder, its easily the most broken deck in the history of the game. You literally cannot create your own deck without having to just flop when this deck hits a perfect curve, which is pretty frequently. I don't like having to just copy/paste broken ass decks in order to do well, its the reason you see the exact same decks in every single tournament.

Well, to look at it from a different perspective, most quest rogue decks are also by themselves copied netdecks. So it shouldn't be a big surprise that you usually see other players using anti-quest rogue net decks to beat the other net deck. Having to use net decks to beat other net decks hasn't just been restricted to the quest rogue match-ups of Un'Goro.

Now, with that said you don't have to use a full on net deck of a particular class to defeat quest rogues. Afterall, Dirty Rat, a very effective quest rogue counter if you draw into it before the core is ready, can be used by any class. There also isn't just one class that counters rogues, so even if you felt you had to use a straight up net-deck, instead of a mix of net decking & your own creation, then you would have more than one option (taunt warrior works great, but Savjz also demonstrated a non-quest control paladin that survived against an active Core rogue & defeated it, he even lasted almost til fatigue against the rogue as well as through the turns that the rogue draw into more draw & spammed the board over again).

- - - Updated - - -

If Crystal Core is played by turn 5, it's pretty much just a matter of having an established board before it gets played. If you have zero board and haven't cleared off your opponents minions when it's played, you are screwed.

This is true, but quest rogues are the epitome of an anti-tempo deck early on (barring the rare god draws with all bounces, plus prep). They pretty much do nothing to contest the board for the first three or four turns so it shouldn't ever be a problem to establish some board presence against them before the Core activates.

[Clozer]

If Crystal Core is played by turn 5, it's pretty much just a matter of having an established board before it gets played. If you have zero board and haven't cleared off your opponents minions when it's played, you are screwed.

ye same against freeze mage but he needs 10 turns and rogue needs 5. You see the difference? Quest is too good right now.

[Pantalaimon]

ye same against freeze mage but he needs 10 turns and rogue needs 5. You see the difference? Quest is too good right now.

Is that why I can win sooner against rogues on turn 2 or 3 with a single card (Dirty Rat)? Rogues aren't as unstoppable as you make them out to be, so no they are not "too good". Can't really compare it to Freeze Mage since the counter plays to their win condition usually happens later in the game and Freeze Mages aren't usually countered by one card like quest rogues can be.

[Clozer]

Is that why I can win against rogues on turn 2 or 3 with Dirty Rat, but I can't against Freeze Mage?

lol, turn 8 dirty rat and then win? Dude if you don't know how to handle freeze mage, that's your thing though.

[Pantalaimon]

lol, turn 8 dirty rat and then win? Dude if you don't know how to handle freeze mage, that's your thing though.

*WHOOSH*, clearly missed the point. The quote was in response to your comparison between quest rogues & freeze mage and how quest rogue is just so 'OP' that they can wreck you in 5 turns or less, to which I responded with a turn 2 or 3 Dirty Rat counter play being able to shutdown said 'OP' rogue deck. Wasn't complaining about not being able to defeat Freeze Mage, just that it takes even fewer cards & turns to counter the 'unstoppable' quest rogue than it does to counter your comparison of Freeze Mage.

Edited last post for clarity.

[Mormolyce]

I just played 5 games in ranked as quest Rogue. Went up against another quest Rogue who had the entire combo in his opening hand while I had trash. Followed by a silence Priest who had perfect curve and won on turn 6 despite apparently having no idea how to play his deck. All in all, 1 win for 4 losses because of the deck's inconsistency and the fact everyone at that rank is running something way more aggressive in the early game than you can beat without perfect draw. The one win was a guy who quit as soon as I completed the quest on turn 7 or so.

So I then play 5 games in casual as quest Rogue. One deck beat me. Three of them quit as soon as I played 2-3 minions. One quit as soon as he saw I was a Rogue.

This is really a horrible deck to play. Wish I hadn't crafted the quest to be honest. It's dumb aggro, luck, and nothing else.

[Kralljin]

This is really a horrible deck to play. Wish I hadn't crafted the quest to be honest. It's dumb aggro, luck, and nothing else.

I think that Un'goro sadly reinforced what Hearthstone has become.

There's basically two types of decks: One that want to stall the game until they grind the other player out of game / finish you with a certain combo or decks that want you dead by turn 5-6.

Super fast or super slow, there's no middle ground anymore.

My Ladder experience basically consists of:

Pirate Warrior
Quest Rogue
Token Druid
Midrange / Aggro Hunter

Taunt Warrior
Quest Mage

How are you supposed to build a deck that has chances winning against both types without becoming one of them? I can't win Aggro matchup with too many tech cards like Eater of Secrets / Black Knight, but i can't win against these control decks with too many anti aggro cards.

[caractacus]

I think that Un'goro sadly reinforced what Hearthstone has become.

There's basically two types of decks: One that want to stall the game until they grind the other player out of game / finish you with a certain combo or decks that want you dead by turn 5-6.

Super fast or super slow, there's no middle ground anymore.

My Ladder experience basically consists of:

Pirate Warrior
Quest Rogue
Token Druid
Midrange / Aggro Hunter

Taunt Warrior
Quest Mage

How are you supposed to build a deck that has chances winning against both types without becoming one of them? I can't win Aggro matchup with too many tech cards like Eater of Secrets / Black Knight, but i can't win against these control decks with too many anti aggro cards.

Any deck you build will almost always be worse than those, because they are tried and tested "committee" decks. It has always been that way. I don't believe that those are the only decks you can play on ladder. A lot of people are doing well with tempo priest, Lyra was slated by many before the expac but seems to be shaping up to be a strong card. Mage Shaman and Paladin all have elemental version which are strong and other various decks. And Warlock which is generally always good because it arguably has the best hero power has numerous competitive decks. I would also add you aren't restricted to quest rogue, with rogue.

So in Summary I would say every class seems to be in the mix at the moment but if you are going to make you own deck don't expect it to stomp all the popular ones, maybe do some research first and see what works.

[Kralljin]

Any deck you build will almost always be worse than those, because they are tried and tested "committee" decks.

Not really the point.

What i mean that there's basically these two archetype that dominate the game which in my view aren't that fun to play.

Obviously this my personal opinion, i don't like aggro because these decks put so much focus into the Mulligan and i dislike Control because these decks tend to solely focus on minion removal and stalling the game, not that fun to play after a few games.

Mage Shaman and Paladin all have elemental version which are strong and other various decks.

Any deck that focuses on playing minions is at a disadvantage against control Decks unless you have a tool that generates enough value to let them run out of removal.

Midrange Hunter does okayish against taunt Warrior, but Midrange Hunter is about as Midrange as the Post Kara Midrange Shaman deck was, without the very strong earlygame cards it wouldn't work.

So in Summary I would say every class seems to be in the mix at the moment but if you are going to make you own deck don't expect it to stomp all the popular ones, maybe do some research first and see what works.

I honestly do not complain about losing with a deck that i made in 5 minutes then getting crushed by other decks.

I tried multiple versions of a Midrange Shaman, all of them struggled with the same shit, Taunt Warrior outvalues you hard, Quest mage kills you unless he's unable to discover enough freeze effects (Or you don't draw / tech Eater of Secrets) and Aggro / Quest Rogue kills you if you don't draw the "right" cards within turn 1-3.

This is my issue, the three win conditions that a (successful) deck in HS currently needs to have is:
-Overpower your opponent as fast as possible (Aggro; Quest Rogue)
-Stall the game until the Opponent can no longer keep up (Quest Warrior)
-Stall the game until you can combo the opponent with certain cards (Quest Mage)

You can build a (More or less) successful deck with every class currently, but at the end of day, they need to have one of the three win conditions to be "top tier".

On a sidenote, i had more success against aggro decks than Control decks, unless i literally put in direct hate cards like Black Knight or Eater of Secrets into the deck, which are totally garbage cards if you can't activate their effect.

[Rennadrel]

I think that Un'goro sadly reinforced what Hearthstone has become.

There's basically two types of decks: One that want to stall the game until they grind the other player out of game / finish you with a certain combo or decks that want you dead by turn 5-6.

Super fast or super slow, there's no middle ground anymore.

My Ladder experience basically consists of:

Pirate Warrior
Quest Rogue
Token Druid
Midrange / Aggro Hunter

Taunt Warrior
Quest Mage

How are you supposed to build a deck that has chances winning against both types without becoming one of them? I can't win Aggro matchup with too many tech cards like Eater of Secrets / Black Knight, but i can't win against these control decks with too many anti aggro cards.

Still a lot of Freeze Mage in standard

[PPN]

Quest Mage

Really? Since the launch of the Expansion i played a lot. And mage is the only class i havent met once so far playing the quest. And i really mean zero times....

I already began to feel sorry for mages.

[NED funded]

I think that Un'goro sadly reinforced what Hearthstone has become.

There's basically two types of decks: One that want to stall the game until they grind the other player out of game / finish you with a certain combo or decks that want you dead by turn 5-6.

Super fast or super slow, there's no middle ground anymore.

My Ladder experience basically consists of:

Pirate Warrior
Quest Rogue
Token Druid
Midrange / Aggro Hunter

Taunt Warrior
Quest Mage

How are you supposed to build a deck that has chances winning against both types without becoming one of them? I can't win Aggro matchup with too many tech cards like Eater of Secrets / Black Knight, but i can't win against these control decks with too many anti aggro cards.

Quest mage? I haven't seen that archetype in ages, nowadays when I face mage I'm expecting it to be tempo mage or freeze mage. Also I like the meta, for once I haven't seen too many pirate warriors and the games; aside from hunter, are not tempostone.

[Mahourai]

This is my issue, the three win conditions that a (successful) deck in HS currently needs to have is:
-Overpower your opponent as fast as possible (Aggro; Quest Rogue)
-Stall the game until the Opponent can no longer keep up (Quest Warrior)
-Stall the game until you can combo the opponent with certain cards (Quest Mage)

You do realize that you're describing the three pillars of competitive card games - aggro, control, and combo. I'm sorry that the format doesn't revolve around random slow trash decks that don't play removal or lock pieces but maybe card games just aren't for you.

[Kralljin]

Really? Since the launch of the Expansion i played a lot. And mage is the only class i havent met once so far playing the quest. And i really mean zero times....

I had Mage with quest often enough, Paladin on the other hand i have hardly ever seen.

I'm sorry that the format doesn't revolve around random slow trash decks that don't play removal or lock pieces but maybe card games just aren't for you.

Idk, had previously not so great issues with reaching Rank 6-7 with those, considering i only play like 5 ranked games at best each day, i can live with my results.

I reached Rank 8 playing similiar decks currently, not a terrible downgrade but Taunt Warrior & Quest Mages is where my winrate has hit near bottom.

Aside from that, feel free to play an Elemental themed deck (Be it Pally, Mage or Shaman, feel free to choose) and try your luck against taunt Warrior.

don't play removal

What a great hint for beating control decks, running more reactive cards, thanks!