[Megathread] Final Fantasy XIV

[Remilia]

To be fair I've gathered that SMN mains are really annoyed that all they do is spam ruin. If that's the case (I dont have arcanist even unlocked so I wouldn't know) they have merit to that. However, the Bahamut thing is pretty cool which might be enough for some to enjoy.

There is a decent amount of ruin spam but it also depends on how you want to do it. MP management is kind of a thing now if you want to maximize DPS due to Ruinga being a more hard castable spell even with the MP penalty, it costs 6x a normal ruin. Main reason is because lucid dream actually recovers a shit load of MP.
It is a lot harder to screw up SMNs now though bar some timing that still remains. Tri-disaster or I guess dual disaster now puts a + ruin type damage debuff ontop of the debuff so cast ruin types depending on it. Because Bahamut Trance resets tri-disaster it makes it so you in should not need to hardcast a DoT if you spread out Aetherflow and Bahamut Trances properly, of course single target only.

It is however not as hard as it is like it was in HW to maximize. You just have to be careful of a couple of CDs (pet included if you want to micro it) and MP management.

[Wrecktangle]

Square has never been about intricate twists and turns. They aren't telling a Game of Thrones tale of political intrigue where the heroes are just as much assholes as the villains and the villains have good but misunderstood intentions (except maybe Tactics). They've always being more chivalric tales of good vs evil with the occasional character being shades of gray.

FF7 - had quite a few twists and turns, a couple of which were pretty intricate. There's even a few good/bad guys who are ambiguous.

FF9 - Zidane and crew kinda fit that bill. I also think that game has quite a few twists and turns. Your Tactics example rings loud and true (one of my personal favs). Chrono Cross has one of the biggest twists I think I've ever seen. Star Ocean 3 had another one of the most ridiculous plot twists I've ever seen.

Xenogears is a great example of twists and turns. The various shades of 'bad guys' and 'good guys' in that story is quite staggering. There's a reason it is my favorite game of all time.

I think they're definitely into twists and turns, some are naturally more intricate than others though.

[Faroth]

FF7 - had quite a few twists and turns, a couple of which were pretty intricate. There's even a few good/bad guys who are ambiguous.

FF9 - Zidane and crew kinda fit that bill. I also think that game has quite a few twists and turns. Your Tactics example rings loud and true (one of my personal favs). Chrono Cross has one of the biggest twists I think I've ever seen. Star Ocean 3 had another one of the most ridiculous plot twists I've ever seen.

Xenogears is a great example of twists and turns. The various shades of 'bad guys' and 'good guys' in that story is quite staggering. There's a reason it is my favorite game of all time.

I think they're definitely into twists and turns, some are naturally more intricate than others though.

Probably should have specified Final Fantasy. They're typically the more straightforward of their stories.

[Super Kami Dende]

It's taking a while for me to get used to all the new Voice Actors for Main Characters that changed going into Heavensward.

Most are OK, but Major downgrades so far for me are Raubahn, Ilbred, Merlwyb and Yugiri. The new Voices just seem so out of place and Meh.

[Wrecktangle]

Probably should have specified Final Fantasy. They're typically the more straightforward of their stories.

Even still I listed 6 examples of square games, 3 of which were FF games so it still applies.

But regardless - when you say "Square has never been about intricate twists and turns", I think a pertinent question would be what exactly does 'intricate' mean?

FF7 - A small group of eco-terrorists that go from blowing up reactors in the city (very gray area for "heroes" right?) to sometimes working in tandem with said company to fight off the weapons of the planet and a mentally unhinged test subject determined to wipe clean the world. Are weapons designed to protect the world bad guys? Or are we the bad guys for destroying the planets defensive mechanisms? Is Sephiroth really that bad of a guy? Sure he did bad things, but look what was done to him.

FF9 - a small group of thieves plan to kidnap a local princess for ransom and end up recruiting her against the kingdom she's tasked with leading one day. Meanwhile the real antagonists work from the shadows, we find out where Garnet was really from and what happened there, we find out who Zidane is and where he comes from and why Kuja is fixated on him, and they end up traveling to another world.

Tactics - I couldn't even summarize this as the twists and turns and characters therein are so convoluted and muddied. You have Weigraf who succumbs to Lucavi, but he was really just fighting for freedom, you have Izlude, Zalbag and others being manipulated and the hugely gray area that Delita operates in. I could go on, but you've already acquiesced on this particular title.

I don't really remember FF8 besides love story, and I very strongly disliked X, but it definitely qualifies there especially with the whole al bhed stuff and the big reveal on Zanarkand. I am also a terribly FF fan because I haven't played 6, because I get bored every time I try around Figaro castle and it's like literally the beginning.

These all sounds pretty intricate to me and they all have numerous characters both good and bad that are not always obvious with their personalities and agendas and whether they're just or not. Oh and last bit - have you played xenogears if not please do it. for me

[Anzaman]

So, got BSM from 60 to 68 today and went to do quests for it.

Thought I'd update, got BSM 60 to 70 today.

Sadly, leve-allowances are down to two, so not going to get another up anytime soon.

[StrawberryZebra]

You didn't get any sense of the utter garbage life the oppressed people of Doma and Ala Mhigo live under Garlean rule?

Oh absolutely, they're not nice places to live. However we're led to believe that life there is no better or no worse than it is for any other nation the Garleans have conquered. On the other hand, I assume that the quality of life for your average Garlean citizen is dramatically better, though I am basing that on the fact the ones we've met who aren't trying to kill us all seem to be well educated.

It was starkly clear to be he wants to kill people. All in pursuit of a thrill to feel something. It's fairly sociopathic.

Which is his sole motive. The only qualities he has as an antagonist are that he's Garlean and that he likes killing people. Both make him a fairly bland and uninspired villain, and he doesn't really have any other strong character traits or goals to save him from being a one dimensional character.

The best villains tend to all be characters the audience can relate to. Like Magneto, he's far more than just a murderous sociopath and his ultimate goals are ones that the reader can sympathise with even if they don't agree with the methods used. He has redeeming qualities, as well as very human flaws and those make him far more three dimensional than some stock character bloodthirsty tyrant.

[lawow74]

The best villains tend to all be characters the audience can relate to. Like Magneto, he's far more than just a murderous sociopath and his ultimate goals are ones that the reader can sympathise with even if they don't agree with the methods used. He has redeeming qualities, as well as very human flaws and those make him far more three dimensional than just a bloodthirsty tyrant.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions, and the best villains exemplify that. Like Magneto. Here is a man who survived the Holocaust, the single greatest act of evil in human history. He saw first-hand what man is capable of doing for even the flimsiest of reasons, much less people who have powers that let them potentially level cities. Whatever you make of his actions, you understand very well how he got that way.

Then you have Zenos, who's basically nothing but a cartoon character. He kills people so he can feel something. Now, that in and of itself is not a terrible motivation for a villain, but it has no context. He just bounces on-screen and goes about his posturing and babbling. At the last second you get the teensiest bit of understanding, but at that point he's full-on raving lunatic and there's nothing to really do but end him.

Yotsuyu and Fordola had much better characterization, you had a sense of how they got that way and what really drove them to it. Zenos was basically little more than 'cos we said so'.

[Graeham]

It's outright stated in a side quest that Garlean rule differs from region to region. Some places are left virtually unchanged whilst other regions are incredibly bleak. We saw the worst of Garlean rule in Doma and Ala Mhigo but hopefully we'll see the good aspects elsewhere. Garlemald is far too interesting to be reduced to basic tropes. Eorzea itself is far from perfect, anyway.

As for Zenos, I suspect a lot of the worst elements of Garlemald are being pinned on him. There's a pretty big number of players who want a Gaius or Regula that actually sticks around and proves to be reasonable but wholly loyal to Garlemald itself rather than becoming another bland defector like Cid or Lucia (both of whom might as well not be Garlean at all given how little they actually care for their former people/homeland).

[Faroth]

Even still I listed 6 examples of square games, 3 of which were FF games so it still applies.

But regardless - when you say "Square has never been about intricate twists and turns", I think a pertinent question would be what exactly does 'intricate' mean?

These all sounds pretty intricate to me and they all have numerous characters both good and bad that are not always obvious with their personalities and agendas and whether they're just or not. Oh and last bit - have you played xenogears if not please do it. for me

Debatable how intricately the villain was developed in FF7 (moreso due to questionable translation). People still think Sephiroth is some amazing villain. He's not. He's barely a villain at all. HE'S BARELY IN THE GAME AT ALL. I wouldn't say it's full of deep twists and compelling villain development. JENOVA is fairly straightforward. SHINRA has some unexpectedly multifaceted players within, though.

FF9, the merry band of rogues not so sure and Kujo is often cited as one of the weakest villains in the series.

I don't think 3/13 gives you a strong case that Final Fantasy games are deeply multi-faceted with unexpected twists and turns vs. more chivalric good vs evil themes. Even Kefka isn't exactly a deep character, though you can see his reasoning from a really twisted point of view. Even 4/13 isn't a majority of really complex villains, but I'll bump the number up since Golbez was pretty good with the twist he offered.

I haven't played Xenogears. I didn't play Xenoblade on Wii or Wii U because I want to play that one first (despite it being totally unnecessary). I have picked it up though..... the 200+ backlog shouldn't take long, right? ....right. o.o;

The best villains tend to all be characters the audience can relate to. Like Magneto, he's far more than just a murderous sociopath and his ultimate goals are ones that the reader can sympathise with even if they don't agree with the methods used. He has redeeming qualities, as well as very human flaws and those make him far more three dimensional than some stock character bloodthirsty tyrant.

Well, sure, if you want to grant Square the authority to spend 10 years developing a single villain. It took some time to really flesh out all the aspects of Magento's personality and character from scratch. He wasn't quite as complex when he was hating humans and leading the "Brotherhood of Evil Mutants."


If we go deeper into discussing Zenos, it might be wise to take it to the story thread, though.

[Kazgrel]

It's taking a while for me to get used to all the new Voice Actors for Main Characters that changed going into Heavensward.

Most are OK, but Major downgrades so far for me are Raubahn, Ilbred, Merlwyb and Yugiri. The new Voices just seem so out of place and Meh.

Unfortunately, they did not have a choice with replacing Yugiri's VA.

- - - Updated - - -

That was my thought on the matter. Lakshimi and Susano are not supposed to be the pinnacle of raiding difficulty. I keep hearing everyone complain about how easy they are but...they are the first Primals of Stormblood and are essentially the "entry" to raiding. Why exactly should they have a lot of complex mechanics? I appreciate the fact that they are visually amazing to fight (the Susano QTE as a tank makes me feel AMAZING) and give a good basic challenge.

That whole QTE event in Susano, while not really adding anything amazing gameplay-wise...that shit looks fantastic, and I'm not one who's been the tank for grabbing it as of yet. Making it even better is when, on a whim, I googled the name of the sword that we're attacking and upon that, learning the whole thing with retrieving that gem and returning it was basically the players restoring all 3 of the Imperial Regalia of Japan to one location, only to have it spawn a primal, all of which is straight out of Japanese mythology. Pretty neat to realize what they based the whole thing off of.

[Faroth]

It's taking a while for me to get used to all the new Voice Actors for Main Characters that changed going into Heavensward.

Most are OK, but Major downgrades so far for me are Raubahn, Ilbred, Merlwyb and Yugiri. The new Voices just seem so out of place and Meh.

I liked Raubahn and Ilberd much better. Ilberd has a bit of a Scottish hint later HW patches. How Raubahn is a downgrade... I don't see how one feels that after his "Mad Snake. Mad Snaaaaaake!" delivery in ARR. XD

Merlwyb and Yugiri I agree. Yugiri's original voice actress returns in Stormblood, though.

I also don't care for Nanamo in Heavensward.

[Kazgrel]

I don't think its wrong of people to be apprehensive. When you take into context that the last two primals of HW were a joke and then people see more of that then yeah.

Fair, but at the same time, we know they can pull out some crazy ass shit, too (hello, Thordan EX and Sephirot EX). I think for starting off early on, a lower difficulty curve makes sense, vs. having players get brickwalled by something to the effect of, say, A3S (which I personally have not done; basing that off of the months of tears that thing produced).

[Faroth]

Unfortunately, they did not have a choice with replacing Yugiri's VA.

They said going INTO Heavensward, so it would be the replacements from ARR.

Particularly noted by them citing Merlwyb.... who has no spoken lines in Stormblood. :^)

That whole QTE event in Susano, while not really adding anything amazing gameplay-wise...that shit looks fantastic, and I'm not one who's been the tank for grabbing it as of yet.

I grabbed it as Samurai when a tank died and I was the only one next to the spot when it happened. I got to live the trailer!

[Graeham]

The 3.0 and 4.0 voice acting is miles better than most of the voice acting back in 2.0.

I honestly get the impression that some people are bitter simply because they're using British voice actors now rather than American. They're going for a very specific style with it these days which fits the style embraced by FFXII. A game which is frequently praised for excellent voice work.

Then, of course, there's people who will complain about the English voice acting due to some sort of bizarre obsession with Japanese voice work being better even though they don't understand it themselves.

Not necessarily aimed at anyone here, but based on Reddit/official forum discussions I've had in the past.

[StrawberryZebra]

Well, sure, if you want to grant Square the authority to spend 10 years developing a single villain. It took some time to really flesh out all the aspects of Magento's personality and character from scratch. He wasn't quite as complex when he was hating humans and leading the "Brotherhood of Evil Mutants."

They did a good job with Fordola and Yotsuyu despite their lack of screen time. They also do solid work fleshing out allied NPC's like Gosetsu and Hien with little screen time too. I don't think it's unreasonable for them to come up with a primary antagonist that's more than just a psycho killer. He was a very weak villain in a line up of much better written characters and they should have done much better with him. Especially when, as people here are so fond of saying, FF is a story driven game.

[Kazgrel]

They said going INTO Heavensward, so it would be the replacements from ARR.

Particularly noted by them citing Merlwyb.... who has no spoken lines in Stormblood. :^)



I grabbed it as Samurai when a tank died and I was the only one next to the spot when it happened. I got to live the trailer!

Oh...whoops. Every time I see Yugiri's VA being mention, that whole ordeal comes to mind.

[Kaelwryn]

The 3.0 and 4.0 voice acting is miles better than most of the voice acting back in 2.0.

I honestly get the impression that some people are bitter simply because they're using British voice actors now rather than American. They're going for a very specific style with it these days which fits the style embraced by FFXII. A game which is frequently praised for excellent voice work.

Then, of course, there's people who will complain about the English voice acting due to some sort of bizarre obsession with Japanese voice work being better even though they don't understand it themselves.

Not necessarily aimed at anyone here, but based on Reddit/official forum discussions I've had in the past.

I agree. Truthfully, I didn't find the JP VA's the much better than 2.0's either. Regardless, some people need to really get it out of their heads that JP VAs are always the absolute best in everything >.>

[Remilia]

That whole QTE event in Susano, while not really adding anything amazing gameplay-wise...that shit looks fantastic, and I'm not one who's been the tank for grabbing it as of yet. Making it even better is when, on a whim, I googled the name of the sword that we're attacking and upon that, learning the whole thing with retrieving that gem and returning it was basically the players restoring all 3 of the Imperial Regalia of Japan to one location, only to have it spawn a primal, all of which is straight out of Japanese mythology. Pretty neat to realize what they based the whole thing off of.

Some Japanese mythology is quite interesting and we barely ever see these in the west. Nioh is the recent game to use some amount of it. It's nice seeing mythology from different regions as they really vary and some are quite awesome.

[Manabomb]

So I know I'm normally part of the crowd that makes fun of people for being bad by sarcastically saying, "you don't pay my sub!" Well this time I dealt with a bad who thought to try to be a part of that crowd lol.

So I'm doing Shisui and this MNK starts randomly telling me about which cross role abilities I should have as RDM. Cool, okay whatever, he has RDM at like level 62 (I'm 64 but I have 2 jobs at 70 already) but it's w/e. Then on the 2nd boss I'm kiting the explosion mechanic away from people and clip one of the boxes. He launches into a full-on explanation of the mechanics of the fight. I tell him thank you, this is my 3rd job to 70, I accidentally clipped it. Then I'm kiting the explosion around again, boss begins casting Seduce and I immediately grab a box. He launches into another explanation about how I need to make sure I grab the same box every time. I lose my patience here and say, "thank you so much senpai." Picking up on my sarcasm, he starts to rage, throwing around, "i know i don't pay your sub" comments and telling me I'm having a bad day, I should seek counseling, etc.. And the whole time my responses are, "okay senpai ^^;;; thank you so much senpai ... did I disappoint you senpai?? ; ;" Must have triggered this dude bad lol.

Oh and the whole time this is going on, I'm pulling quadruple his DPS on both trash and bosses. Literally the entire run. I mean, I know MNKs aren't in the best spot for dungeon DPS, especially compared to RDM. But I would imagine some dude who felt it necessary to pull the whole high-and-mighty tryhard attitude in a level 63 dungeon would at least somewhat pull his weight in DPS.

Whole thing just gave me a good laugh, it's adorable to see someone who thinks they're good try and stand tall and pretend they're part of the elite or something.

Wow, the fact you even had to deal with someone like that is just... Guh.

But the way you handled it was very classy. I might start using "senpai" in my sarcasm now just to push people like that on tilt.