Anti-gay 'vote Putin' video goes viral in Russia

[Elegiac]

that can be said about any vulgar humor. But gay jokes in Russia do not induce hatred.

Nah, they're just symptomatic of that hatred.

agreed. anti-gay bigots, racial bigots, lgbt bigots, feminist bigots - are all the same - bigots.

Once again; whataboutism. When will the Soviets learn?

[Machismo]

what am I evading?



your every point is proved beforehand. It didn't take me or anyone else to prove it. U are self-approved person. You don't listen, you push your agenda.



no, i haven't said that. You are arguing with voices in ur head.



never said there is no homophobia in Russia. You are arguing with voices in ur head again. I said there is no homophobia in this video.

Well, I do like facts. The facts are simple. Gay marriage is illegal in Russia. Gay marriage is also illegal in Russia. Free expression on gay rights is also restricted in Russia.

You may think that there's no homophobia, but it's quite literally playing on the fear and homophobia of Russians. Why else put in the issue about the fear of forcing people to house gay people in a video?

Yep, that's homophobic. Kак жало, товарищ.

[Elegiac]

"Gay rights" do not exist. Gays and straight people have the same human rights.

Indeed, the problem is that you lot keep trying to find creative ways to strip us of our human rights.

[Machismo]

"Gay rights" do not exist. Gays and straight people have the same human rights.

Gay rights do not exist, that's the point. They banned gay marriage, gay adoption, and freedom of expression on gay issues.

let me know when things change. it's a shame they hate gay people so much...

[Keeponrage]

So, your argument that it's "cute" homophobia, so it's acceptable?

Homophobia is not acceptable. Just like any other irrational phobia.

let me know when you support legalizing gay marriage, gay adoptions, and allowing for free expression and speech on gay issues.

why i should support it? I don't fucking care. "Gay" rights are not even in a top-10 of rights I concern about. They are vanishingly small issue in comparison with rights for free and qualitative medical care, medium and higher education, labor conditions, kindergartens, housing, retraining courses, etc, etc.

Let me know when you support legalizing all of the above and when all of the above is done, we can talk about gay rights.

[Shalcker]

Here's the difference; I'm not claiming there's no systemic bias in US law enforcement against minorities. You're trying to claim there's no systemic bias against LGBTQ people in Russia despite all evidence to the contrary.

The problem is - there is no systemic bias in US law enforcement against minorities. Data just doesn't bear it out, sorry.

And "All evidence" - like, two examples mentioned in Western media last year? Is that all it takes to prove "systematic oppression"? Well, i guess you do see oppression everywhere...

[Machismo]

Homophobia is not acceptable. Just like any other irrational phobia.



why i should support it? I don't fucking care. "Gay" rights are not even in a top-10 of rights I concern about. They are vanishingly small issue in comparison with rights for free and qualitative medical care, medium and higher education, labor conditions, kindergartens, housing, retraining courses, etc, etc.

Let me know when you support legalizing all of the above and when all of the above is done, we can talk about gay rights.

You are demonstrating my point for me, thanks. It's a shame you don't care about the rights and freedoms of gay people. So, do you think gay marriage should be legalized? Do you think that gay adoption should be legal? How about allowing for free speech and expression on gay issues?

I support legalizing just about everything, so your argument makes absolutely no sense. I don't think any of those things are banned in my country.

I'm still over here, holding my breath.

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The problem is - there is no systemic bias in US law enforcement against minorities. Data just doesn't bear it out, sorry.

And "All evidence" - like, two examples mentioned in Western media last year? Is that all it takes to prove "systematic oppression"? Well, i guess you do see oppression everywhere...

Can you cite some evidence to back up that claim?

https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/pu...lice-use-force

The most exhaustive study on the use of force ever done would disagree with you. Black people are more likely to be the target of use of all forms of force, other than shootings, by police officers.

[Elegiac]

The problem is - there is no systemic bias in US law enforcement against minorities. Data just doesn't bear it out, sorry.

And "All evidence" - like, two examples mentioned in Western media last year? Is that all it takes to prove "systematic oppression"? Well, i guess you do see oppression everywhere...

I mean, it's cute that you think prominent media examples are what people mean when they talk about systemic bias. But also kinda sad.

Weren't you the one claiming that Westerners should stop talking about Russia because they haven't actually lived there? What makes you the expert on American law enforcement then, comrade?

[Shalcker]

Can you cite some evidence to back up that claim?

https://scholar.harvard.edu/fryer/pu...lice-use-force

The most exhaustive study on the use of force ever done would disagree with you. Black people are more likely to be the target of use of all forms of force, other than shootings, by police officers.

"We argue that the patterns in the data are consistent with a model in which police officers are utility maximizers, a fraction of which have a preference for discrimination"

Sure, fraction of police are prejudiced.

So do fraction of Russian population against gays.

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I mean, it's cute that you think prominent media examples are what people mean when they talk about systemic bias. But also kinda sad.

Yes, it is sad that you cannot show other sources of your "systemic bias" claim.

[Elegiac]

Yes, it is sad that you cannot show other sources of your "systemic bias" claim.

I really don't feel the need to dig particularly deep to address an argument that is based on "more white people get imprisoned than black people", lol. Especially from someone who casually dismisses homophobia and discrimination with whataboutism.

[Machismo]

"We argue that the patterns in the data are consistent with a model in which police officers are utility maximizers, a fraction of which have a preference for discrimination"

Sure, fraction of police are prejudiced.

So do fraction of Russian population against gays.

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Yes, it is sad that you cannot show other sources of your "systemic bias" claim.

You are trying to build one hell of a straw man. I refuted an argument you made, yet did not back up. Now you wnat to try and somehow equate that to anti-gay legislation in Russia... That's adorable.

What percentage of Russians want to ban gay marriage? What percent want to ban gay adoptions? What percentage want to ban free expression on gay issues?

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank...homosexuality/

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...n_2866608.html

Well, that FRACTION would be 85/100, or if you prefer, 17 out of 20 Russians oppose gay marriage.

Man, it's adorable how badly that just blew up in your face.

[Shalcker]

You are trying to build one hell of a straw man. I refuted an argument you made, yet did not back up. Now you wnat to try and somehow equate that to anti-gay legislation in Russia... That's adorable.

There is no anti-gay legislation; there is pro-status-quo legislation, however.

What percentage of Russians want to ban gay marriage? What percent want to ban gay adoptions? What percentage want to ban free expression on gay issues?

Do you remember when you legalized gay marriage? Do you remember how long that took, from first activists to actual legislative acceptance?

Do you think adopting your policies without repeating same fight you had is going to happen, just because that is your preference of "Current Year"?

Well, that FRACTION would be 85/100, or if you prefer, 17 out of 20 Russians oppose gay marriage.

Because YOU made "gay marriage" into "Submit to Western Opinion" icon; and since currently US is considered hostile, similar hostility extends to any social change it promotes.

[Machismo]

There is no anti-gay legislation; there is pro-status-quo legislation, however.

Do you remember when you legalized gay marriage? Do you remember how long that took, from first activists to actual legislative acceptance?

Do you think adopting your policies without repeating same fight you had is going to happen, just because that is your preference of "Current Year"?

Because YOU made "gay marriage" into "Submit to Western Opinion" icon; and since currently US is considered hostile, similar hostility extends to any social change it promotes.

Once again, the status quo IS ANTI-GAY. let me know when you support legalizing gay marriage, legalizing gay adoptions, and ceasing the restrictions on free expression on gay issues.

I'm talking about you personally, not the government. When will you personally support such legalization.

I have supported legalization for those things for 20 years, since I was a teenager. Maybe you shouldn't be so far behind the times.

So, you are now arguing that I'm right, but you don't like HOW I'm right... does that pretty much cover it? Feel free to try and deflect, it's all you know.

[Shalcker]

Whether the US supports gay marriage or not is kind of irrelevant. If you believe that gay people should be treated respectfully (note I did not say accepted, or loved), you do it. The US saying it, and pushing it, is kind of besides the point. Right is right, wrong is wrong in cases of oppression.

I do not believe "marriage" is form of respect, sorry (or that refusing it is form of oppression either).

It is historically created for family/kid support, because every state needs kids to keep their gears going. Majority of "marriage" benefits are geared to that end, and extending them to gays makes no sense (even if they do love each other).

The US is not exactly "loving" of gay people... but more or less, most Americans respect gay people, if they may not fully support their rights to marriage. Because most people in the US have been brought up supporting the idea of freedom of expression, and free speech, even if they don't agree with it.

I do not necessarily believe that total "freedom of expression" is strictly beneficial either, even if it has some uses.

[Machismo]

I do not believe "marriage" is form of respect, sorry.

It is historically created for family/kid support, because every state needs kids to keep their gears going. Majority of "marriage" benefits are geared to that end, and extending them to gays makes no sense (even if they do love each other).

I do not necessarily believe that total "freedom of expression" is strictly beneficial either, even if it has some uses.

Then let gay people adopt. Either that, or ban marriage for anyone who does not wish to have children. The last time I checked, gay people seem more than capable of having a family.

So, you state you are personally opposed to gay marriage, as well as free expression for gay issues. You are proving my point for me, thanks.

[Elegiac]

I do not believe "marriage" is form of respect, sorry (or that refusing it is form of oppression either).

It is historically created for family/kid support, because every state needs kids to keep their gears going. Majority of "marriage" benefits are geared to that end, and extending them to gays makes no sense (even if they do love each other).

Because gay people can't raise kids, apparently.

Y'all really are stuck in the last century.

[Shalcker]

Because gay people can't raise kids, apparently.
Y'all really are stuck in the last century.

I'm weeping from the fact that we do not share progressive values! /s

Gay people are free to claw their way to power if they want it hard enough, just like everyone else in Russia; acceptance isn't going to just fall on their lap.

[Elegiac]

I'm weeping from the fact that we do not share progressive values! /s

Gay people are free to claw their way to power if they want it hard enough, just like everyone else in Russia; acceptance isn't going to just fall on their lap.

This does not reflect positively on you as a people, just for the record.

[Machismo]

I'm weeping from the fact that we do not share progressive values! /s

Gay people are free to claw their way to power if they want it hard enough, just like everyone else in Russia; acceptance isn't going to just fall on their lap.

"If gay people want us to stop oppressing them, they'll have to fight for it."

And these are the people trying to claim they are not homophobes.

[Shalcker]

It's historically created to unify land, property, and cement relationships between kings, and landowners. By binding families by contract. Love was not involved... children were, because they became the rulers of the new, larger, land.

It was later adopted by religion to unify bonds of love, and communion (usually with Children)... if you are going to use this appeal to tradition fallacy, at least know the full history of the tradition.

It is defined by State in modern Russia, and State says that the only union it accepts is one between man and woman.

As such any changes can only go through State legislature. And gays are still decades from winning that one.

We don't have total freedom of expression either... it stops at harm. What two(or more) gay guys, or girls do in their bedroom, if it's consensual, does not harm anyone.

Noone care what you do in your bedroom in Russia either.